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  1. #1

    No Tier gear is the worst idea ever, ugh !!!

    This is probably an old topic, but I am pissed;

    I am a casual player, and was working on a ton of alts most of BfA so far, but finally getting my guys to i380+, and switching between specs, and for some reason I never realized this, because never really used it before, but ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME WITH THIS BS ?

    On my Warrior, when I switch from Fury dps to Protection Warrior, the Azerite traits don't change specs either. I have to go to the Azerite Reforger, and pay money to have those 3 pcs of gear wiped, and then I can choose new traits for the other spec. But F me, it gets expensive the more often you do it. WTF idea was this ?

    First off, Legion had it good, you had your Tier gear, lets say your Ret dps, then you change to Prot Tank spec, the gear would automatically change right away for you, and the gear went from dps bonus to tank bonuses. But with this Azerite shit, it doesn't do that, you need to pay big money to keep switching traits, and the more I do it, it's not cheap.

    F off at Blizzard, who ever thought this was better than Tier gear.

  2. #2
    Players have been complaining about this since launch. One of the many things that makes the Azerite system super awkward. The system as a whole imo was a cop out so they could do a dumbed down version of artifacts and get out of having the art team design tier sets for 11 classes.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsnow612 View Post
    Players have been complaining about this since launch. One of the many things that makes the Azerite system super awkward. The system as a whole imo was a cop out so they could do a dumbed down version of artifacts and get out of having the art team design tier sets for 11 classes.

    Agreed, this is a terrible idea, and just so wrong. And what's the point of making it so freaking expensive ? Like why is that a good design, to make it go up in price each time you switch ? Will cost me thousands of gold switching back and forth between Tanking and dps specs every day.

    Why mess with a good thing Blizzard. Tier gear in Legion worked really well, yes it could be improved, but the basics of your Tier gear switching traits as you switched specs made so much common sense.

  4. #4
    Azerite traits not changing with your spec is probably the shittiest thing about it.

  5. #5
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Apart from it not changing between specs, the Azerite system is superior to Tier Set Bonuses in every way.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Meat Rubbing Specialist View Post
    Apart from it not changing between specs, the Azerite system is superior to Tier Set Bonuses in every way.
    Except when you realize that the Azerite system replaced the Artifact system, not tier set bonuses. We simply lost tier set bonuses entirely and got a worse version of the Artifact system.

  7. #7
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritters154 View Post
    Except when you realize that the Azerite system replaced the Artifact system, not tier set bonuses. We simply lost tier set bonuses entirely and got a worse version of the Artifact system.
    Its an amalgam of both and still better. I'd take Azerite Traits over old tier set bonuses anyday.

  8. #8
    How much gold are we talking about here exactly? I rarely change specs, so I don't know, and I do see people complain about this a lot, makes me curious.

  9. #9
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    did so many people really only start raiding in wod? Having multiple pieces for each slot used to be normal Mabye it’s becauss I skipped wod raiding and most of legion that I’m used to having more then one item to switch to when I change specs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Meat Rubbing Specialist View Post
    Apart from it not changing between specs, the Azerite system is superior to Tier Set Bonuses in every way.
    Gotta agree with this, getting back into my holy pally I’ve been enjoying having more choice then I ever did with the tier sets and being able to get different pieces outside of just raids.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Lazy random procs that the player has no control over.
    I can only speak for the class I’m playing at the moment but holy pallys got a fair bit of control on the traits and I’d hope the other classes did as well.

    A few examples off the top of my head, a aoe heal when you judgment so you have more of a reason to use it. a buff put on any one you holy shock friend or foe for a bit of healing or damage that last 30 seconds so you can spread it around. An increase of range on light of dawn so you can use it on bigger groups further away. All of theses would change up game play even if only by a little bit and none have random elements and then you can mix and match them depending on the pieces you have.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    It's a total cop out.

    They changed gear so it swaps from STR to INT and AGI to INT etc when you switch specs as a hybrid class. They changed tier gear so it switches spec automatically.

    Then they remove every ounce of character progression in BfA along with tier gear and basically deliver the same shit on Azerite yet somehow worse. Shitty procs and passives that don't even switch when you switch spec.

    Lazy bunch of clowns.

    No tier gear. No unique sets.
    No character progression through new abilities and talents for 20 levels.
    No trait swapping on gear when its been in the game for 5+ years.
    Lazy random procs that the player has no control over.


    It was all done to cut costs and require minimal development time whilst also keeping the player grinding for multiple bags full of traits and.... They still fucked it up.
    I mean, all of your points are true, but we really don't exactly know why they did it. Saying it was done to cut costs and require minimal development might be misleading, they very well may have seen this as "better" game design.

  11. #11
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    "i miSsEd tIeR sEtS" no u dont, people whined so much about tier sets, its actually shits, its bad, being balanced around that abomination or you be shit is not fun, having hard time getting it, and sometimes getting cucked because of that.

    and the worst thing is running with normal gear while u have mythic gear in the bag, but you cannot wear it because "tIeR sEtz", and m+ cache dropping a loot that takes a tier slot was the worst feeling EVER!

    let that shit die with fire, stop being nostalgic and idiot, think with your brain, not your heart.

  12. #12
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    Arrow

    Well, imo, none of both is a particularly good system. But if I can at least justify old sets, for example, by wanting to separate progress between different PvE areas, special raid/PvP "carrot", then AA design simply doesn't give any logical explanation from point of view of the game as a whole: on one hand it destroys (progress) boundaries of PvE areas, and on the other violates class identification integrity (bonuses are too specific - "spec dependent", not universal (sometimes even too significant to be neglected, which gives them a similarity to same bad legendarys design = required+class gameplay changing (hard to replace) = must have to play), and the fact that traits aren't switching is just a cherry on the top of ice cream for their criticism). Read it as "traits are one of the worst parts in AA design". Although all of this we have already discussed many many times, like:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    I can even fantasize over some stupid "addition" as a parameter (and design of this game was initially completely tied to control only through characteristics, but not the way they trying to push in last expansions). For example: raid gear will have separate additional line that will add a couple of percent of "benefits" in case when there are more than 5 people in the group (but only! raid gear) or something else trickier, but only! as characteristic. I hope you got the gist. Let's call it just for laughter "team spirit". This will some kind as resilience was for PvP, but for raid content. Here you go, now you have "your" content separate. If you do everything right, you don't even need higher ilvl (same for PvP) But what is now not making this part separate, only allowing "cheating with progress" and even worse - delivering huge demand for RNG to the market. Yes, I know that this role was performed by sets earlier, but since they conflicted with new designers' stormy "revolutionary" spirit to change everything, so now they don't work, and they're absent in new content.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    Why guess? These are just talents placed in items in order to force you every (not even expansion, but a new its) stage supplement them over and over again for all eternity How should this be done correctly? Untying these "class talents" from items and modes (PvP talents) and return them to characters.

    --- snip ---
    Probably that's why I never liked sets' idea. They were more or less (not always, but) sane for PvP (since not much reinforced character, but stuff that's given was simply necessary for banal survivability, they gave you stats and characteristics or universal cross-class bonuses and hence were easily replaceable), but last sane PvE bonuses were probably on Classic's beginning... well, they motivated to grow at least, because it was raiding elite privilege and now it's available literally to everyone and since now - even tradable... It's funny that devs switch off all previous sets, broke legendary items and artifacts (which together were rudiments of Azerite Armor), and now you have "some kind of separate talent system" (integrated into items?). A little more and you'll going to have Horadric Cube and rune words
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    Glyphs are part of build and traits are part of loot, don't forget about this. Loot is luck, build is strategy. Don't know how to present it even easier. Do you know how cross-class traits are called? Characteristics!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    So...they can't disable stats and characteristics, they already tried to introduce templates, people won't be fooled by this anymore. A-a-and *drum-roll* they invented what they "can" switch off at will (already did this with class-sets, artifacts and legendary items, also PvP-talents and toys).
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    so the only way to correct them is to make them characteristics
    Ie: they won't need to be unlocked or part of class' talents/mechanics (key part of build, only reinforce/strengthen it, even less significant, more general non-specific), but can be stackable/replaced and be part of professions/RPG-customization system (can exist/functioning outside of items), mathematical part of engine, otherwise they will spoil progress/balance system, class' fantasy and provoke more and more "unrecorded results".
    I believe that the last one and this are relevant even fully for this discussion... millions of threads Not sure if this so much required another separate one Nothing much has changed since then, except that they revised their decision about “developing after each shift” under community pressure, which still is just bandage (which by the way also killing part of their new "progress" design and proves that it doesn't belong to this game).
    grexly75
    That was one of the worst things about the tier gear system, having far superior normal gear sit in ones bag because one didn't want to break their tier set bonus.. I am so very glad they got rid of tier sets and more so the tier bonus..
    and that's why I continue to say that bonuses shouldn't be "especially specific and strong", in the end they could may be bring their design to a state where each individual item is a small bonus, and tier itself represents only an aesthetically complete set of items, but only belongs (loot-able, possible bonus specificity and considering this) to this particular raid.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-07-23 at 09:06 AM.
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  13. #13
    TiEr SeTS aRe BAd!

    I miss tier sets. I like the feeling of finally completing my BiS 4 piece. In fact I want them to bring back 8 set bonuses.

    Oh you know that’s what classic raiding pretty much was or did you derp out?

    Tier sets are fun.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaon View Post
    "i miSsEd tIeR sEtS" no u dont, people whined so much about tier sets, its actually shits, its bad, being balanced around that abomination or you be shit is not fun, having hard time getting it, and sometimes getting cucked because of that.

    and the worst thing is running with normal gear while u have mythic gear in the bag, but you cannot wear it because "tIeR sEtz", and m+ cache dropping a loot that takes a tier slot was the worst feeling EVER!

    let that shit die with fire, stop being nostalgic and idiot, think with your brain, not your heart.
    That was one of the worst things about the tier gear system, having far superior normal gear sit in ones bag because one didn't want to break their tier set bonus.. I am so very glad they got rid of tier sets and more so the tier bonus..

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral czarek's Avatar
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    Sets were cool. Farming azerite or artifact power is crap that made itemization flat and boring.

  16. #16
    Both is boring.
    Tier sets meant that 4/8 slots are already occupied, and nonset items were worthless. Unless you make the set boni completely forgettable, where you wonder, why having the set amyway. Legendary items made it worse. In Legion a destruction warlock had only TWO slots of armor, he was able to choose. The rest was locked by set and legendary items. Ohhhh and one trinket slot was occupied by the Argus trinket as well.

    Now, having no sets, again sucks. Even if it is just for the looks. Only one style per armor class still sucks, and we still only hunt 1,maybe 2 items per slot.

  17. #17
    I'm more annoyed by not having class specific mog sets in new raids.

    Tier as item itself does not bother me, but I sure liked getting that 22nd remaigining of warlock per Ion words.

    New crossover sets look good, but I just don't like sharing them across all cloth.

    So I hope that tiers make a return next expansion.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    This is probably an old topic, but I am pissed;

    I am a casual player, and was working on a ton of alts most of BfA so far, but finally getting my guys to i380+, and switching between specs, and for some reason I never realized this, because never really used it before, but ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME WITH THIS BS ?

    On my Warrior, when I switch from Fury dps to Protection Warrior, the Azerite traits don't change specs either. I have to go to the Azerite Reforger, and pay money to have those 3 pcs of gear wiped, and then I can choose new traits for the other spec. But F me, it gets expensive the more often you do it. WTF idea was this ?

    First off, Legion had it good, you had your Tier gear, lets say your Ret dps, then you change to Prot Tank spec, the gear would automatically change right away for you, and the gear went from dps bonus to tank bonuses. But with this Azerite shit, it doesn't do that, you need to pay big money to keep switching traits, and the more I do it, it's not cheap.

    F off at Blizzard, who ever thought this was better than Tier gear.
    They made it expensive because you're not supposed to reforge them every time you change specs. You're supposed to collect different azerite sets for each spec. You're a warrior with 3 specs. So your options are pick generic traits that have some use to all your specs, reforge them every time (like you're doing which is not what Blizz is going for), or get a set for each spec.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    It's a total cop out.

    They changed gear so it swaps from STR to INT and AGI to INT etc when you switch specs as a hybrid class. They changed tier gear so it switches spec automatically.

    Then they remove every ounce of character progression in BfA along with tier gear and basically deliver the same shit on Azerite yet somehow worse. Shitty procs and passives that don't even switch when you switch spec.

    Lazy bunch of clowns.

    No tier gear. No unique sets.
    No character progression through new abilities and talents for 20 levels.
    No trait swapping on gear when its been in the game for 5+ years.
    Lazy random procs that the player has no control over.


    It was all done to cut costs and require minimal development time whilst also keeping the player grinding for multiple bags full of traits and.... They still fucked it up.
    What character progression did they remove? If you're referring to mob scaling that's been a thing for 2 xpacs now, and mobs only gain strength at 1/5 the rate you do so saying it invalidates progression is just a flat out lie.

    You're supposed to collect sets for each spec. Hey this chest has a bis trait for resto but only mediocre ones for the rest of the specs. I'll use this one until I get one with a better trait for balance, and use that for that spec. Ooh, this one has the bis trait for feral. 3 out of 3.

    Btw, I'm of the impression that you just spamming 'lazy' 50x in a post is quite lazy. Try putting a little effort into your posts. It's ironic I find your post lazy in claiming Blizzard is lazy.
    One of the most difficult things for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back.

  19. #19
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Well, we do have tier gear, we just don't have tier gear bonus.

    I like the idea of the Azerite gear, well, I'll like their future fix more but I don't really miss tier gear bonus hunt. Nothing worse than suddenly seeing your BiS being 2p of X, and 2p of Y set.
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  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Vapo's Avatar
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    Azerite gear would be way better than tier gear, since you could achieve the same things that tier does, but even with more options, but they shot themselves in the foot by placing so many wrong restrictions on it, especially acquiring it.

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