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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    How much experience do you have with software development? Do you have any idea at all how much development effort and QA effort can be required for something that imbecile users think is a "simple quality of life change"?

    Have you really thought about the feasibility of your "opt-in" solution? You actually want them to implement some kind of toggle that enables a separate dance bar, but only for players who want it? This means they need to implement both features, as well as a toggle that allows you to "opt-in" to the feature that you want. OK, let's say they do all that effort for just you. "But it's not just me, there are other people who are going to want it as well!" OK, and are they going to be even aware that it exists? Where is the UI/UX team going to put this option so that it's transparent for those who want it, but doesn't add unnecessary clutter and confusion for those who don't? Do you expect the UI/UX team to be on-board with adding more interface bloat to the game for a feature that is going to be used only by a single digit % of Subtlety Rogue players, when Subtlety is only 1 out of 36 specs in the game? Do you really expect them to sign off on that?

    At the end of the day, you have absolutely no idea at all what you are talking about. Your ask is completely unrealistic. It's never going to be worth it to Blizzard to implement this feature, never under any circumstances will a cost-benefit analysis lead them to say "this is something we should do." Never going to happen. Anyone who really wants this behavior is able to achieve it already via simple macros or using Bartender addon. Anyone except for you that is, because you are apparently completely helpless and unwilling to do any work at all.

    This is the entire purpose that addons and macros exist btw. So that special snowflakes who really want something different can opt-in to it, without cluttering the experience at all for anybody else. The opt-in feature you desire already exists, it's called stance macros and/or bartender. This is as good as you are ever going to get. And to be honest, with a minimum amount of effort, it will work perfectly for what you are trying to do. Therefore what you are asking for is a complete and utter waste of development resources, which is never, ever, ever going to happen, not under any circumstances, not ever.
    I do not know much myself about software development, but I did have a very interesting discussion with a programmer friend. I take his word for it, that it's a very little code required to separate those bars.

    But point is, this should still be implemented since it makes Subtlety more accessible and easier to play. Every specc should be easy to pick up and to play smoothly, and sub would still have a high skill cap. Sub is one of 36 speccs and there are other speccs with problems too. Shouldn't blizzard strive to perfect them all?

    macros and addons are a thing, but personally, I always hated both. I wish with all my heart the option to make macros would be removed and all addons banned from use. And instead, Blizzard try to integrate alot of what these addons are in the game. Face it, almost everyone use DBM, some damage meter addons, coordinate addons etc etc. WHY not integrate all those addons in the game? Blizzard should strive to do it all and not rely on third party developers.

    But since Blizzard are lazy and cheap, they have addons and macros as a solution instead of fixing it themselves. Sadly. I just dream of a Blizzard that does it all themselves!

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    macros and addons are a thing, but personally, I always hated both. I wish with all my heart the option to make macros would be removed and all addons banned from use. And instead, Blizzard try to integrate alot of what these addons are in the game. Face it, almost everyone use DBM, some damage meter addons, coordinate addons etc etc. WHY not integrate all those addons in the game? Blizzard should strive to do it all and not rely on third party developers.

    But since Blizzard are lazy and cheap, they have addons and macros as a solution instead of fixing it themselves. Sadly. I just dream of a Blizzard that does it all themselves!
    It has nothing to do with being cheap or lazy. You are asking them to force a one size fits all interface on the players instead of allowing players to have the option to customize their interface. This is never going to happen, like the other things you have asked for, which are also never going to happen for reasons that I have already explained to you that you ignored completely. It doesn't matter that your "programmer friend" says it's easy to do. This is enterprise software development, there are many stages in the pipeline and many different teams that are involved.

    The only one being lazy here is you. You are too lazy to learn how to use Bartender or a very simple stance macro to solve your problem. That's on you.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  3. #123
    The pictures from the last page hurt my eyes. What about q e r t f g c v b as hotkeys? why can't they be on your stealthbar? There are so few spells left that you must have bound toys and stuff. All classes are down to maybe max 5 to 6 keys with smart macro work. I know i have bound useless stuff on some keys.

    But back on topic. Shadow dance indeed was a separate bar in the past and it was a pain to bind spells to it without a bar addon, like literally a few secs per min to make it. You needed a free bar to make your shadowdance bar, then press dance and manually swap all abilities over.

    Also you know that you can make a shadowdance macro that replaces shadowdance with your desired spell when you shadowdance. 300 IQ move
    Dying could endanger your health!

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    It has nothing to do with being cheap or lazy. You are asking them to force a one size fits all interface on the players instead of allowing players to have the option to customize their interface. This is never going to happen, like the other things you have asked for, which are also never going to happen for reasons that I have already explained to you that you ignored completely. It doesn't matter that your "programmer friend" says it's easy to do. This is enterprise software development, there are many stages in the pipeline and many different teams that are involved.

    The only one being lazy here is you. You are too lazy to learn how to use Bartender or a very simple stance macro to solve your problem. That's on you.
    yea i don't think they understand that everyone needs to have fun that makes the game worthwhile. Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    It has nothing to do with being cheap or lazy. You are asking them to force a one size fits all interface on the players instead of allowing players to have the option to customize their interface. This is never going to happen, like the other things you have asked for, which are also never going to happen for reasons that I have already explained to you that you ignored completely. It doesn't matter that your "programmer friend" says it's easy to do. This is enterprise software development, there are many stages in the pipeline and many different teams that are involved.

    The only one being lazy here is you. You are too lazy to learn how to use Bartender or a very simple stance macro to solve your problem. That's on you.
    What? The thing we CAN'T do now is to customize. Now we have to use the same bar. My way ADDS the customization.

    But what should I do, I refuse macros and addons, should I just accept that one of three, 33% of my speccs are unplayable for me? I'm sorry but that is completely crazy. You should not REQUIRE addons or macros to actually play one of the speccs.

  6. #126
    I bind the same buttons on stealth bar as I do on normal bar. This makes an end run over the issue. I only use a couple macros for sub outside of pvp and barely use macros on the other specs either apart from PvP/focus macros.

    If you refuse to use macros and addons, you are either an elite player prepping for Blizzcon arena competitions or you are an eccentric potato. No shame in that but it is silly to pretend that you are not what you obviously are.

    The good news is that sub is garbage except in PvP now so you aren't missing much by not playing sub.

    1-5 are also not great bind buttons if you also move WASD. My most pressed buttons are spacebar (eccentric but otherwise the thumb isn't doing anything), q, e, r, s (unbound backpedal), f, c, z, x, and shift modifier for all of those. I use 1-5 and shift 1-5 for less frequently used functions like potions, healthstone, tricks of the trade, cheap shot, and some others.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    What? The thing we CAN'T do now is to customize. Now we have to use the same bar. My way ADDS the customization.

    But what should I do, I refuse macros and addons, should I just accept that one of three, 33% of my speccs are unplayable for me? I'm sorry but that is completely crazy. You should not REQUIRE addons or macros to actually play one of the speccs.
    1. Add-ons and macros are not required, they are simply how you customize your UI

    2. Don't ask for more customization when you refuse to use the available tools that already fit your needs

    3. You have nobody but yourself to blame for your refusal to use add-ons and macros. If you want to customize your UI, use the right tools. If you don't want to customize it, you're going to be stuck with the base UI which is never going to have the options you're asking for.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    1. Add-ons and macros are not required, they are simply how you customize your UI

    2. Don't ask for more customization when you refuse to use the available tools that already fit your needs

    3. You have nobody but yourself to blame for your refusal to use add-ons and macros. If you want to customize your UI, use the right tools. If you don't want to customize it, you're going to be stuck with the base UI which is never going to have the options you're asking for.
    Why are you so certain it won't get the option? We have seen "crazier" class revamps, haven't we?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamercus View Post
    I bind the same buttons on stealth bar as I do on normal bar. This makes an end run over the issue. I only use a couple macros for sub outside of pvp and barely use macros on the other specs either apart from PvP/focus macros.

    If you refuse to use macros and addons, you are either an elite player prepping for Blizzcon arena competitions or you are an eccentric potato. No shame in that but it is silly to pretend that you are not what you obviously are.

    The good news is that sub is garbage except in PvP now so you aren't missing much by not playing sub.

    1-5 are also not great bind buttons if you also move WASD. My most pressed buttons are spacebar (eccentric but otherwise the thumb isn't doing anything), q, e, r, s (unbound backpedal), f, c, z, x, and shift modifier for all of those. I use 1-5 and shift 1-5 for less frequently used functions like potions, healthstone, tricks of the trade, cheap shot, and some others.
    But using the same for normal bar and stealth bar is the same issue. I want my Normal bar to be the same as my dance bar, and then a separate stealth bar. Is it crazy to want stealth only abilities, like sap, distract, pickpocket in the actual stealth bar?

  9. #129
    Battlebeard: if I can be of any assistance to you in writing a couple stance macros that will make your bars look and feel exactly the way you want them to, please let me know.

    Otherwise, there is nothing to do here except quote the explanations I've already provided you with.

    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    1. Add-ons and macros are not required, they are simply how you customize your UI

    2. Don't ask for more customization when you refuse to use the available tools that already fit your needs

    3. You have nobody but yourself to blame for your refusal to use add-ons and macros. If you want to customize your UI, use the right tools. If you don't want to customize it, you're going to be stuck with the base UI which is never going to have the options you're asking for.
    Quote Originally Posted by shoegazing View Post
    How much experience do you have with software development? Do you have any idea at all how much development effort and QA effort can be required for something that imbecile users think is a "simple quality of life change"?

    Have you really thought about the feasibility of your "opt-in" solution? You actually want them to implement some kind of toggle that enables a separate dance bar, but only for players who want it? This means they need to implement both features, as well as a toggle that allows you to "opt-in" to the feature that you want. OK, let's say they do all that effort for just you. "But it's not just me, there are other people who are going to want it as well!" OK, and are they going to be even aware that it exists? Where is the UI/UX team going to put this option so that it's transparent for those who want it, but doesn't add unnecessary clutter and confusion for those who don't? Do you expect the UI/UX team to be on-board with adding more interface bloat to the game for a feature that is going to be used only by a single digit % of Subtlety Rogue players, when Subtlety is only 1 out of 36 specs in the game? Do you really expect them to sign off on that?

    At the end of the day, you have absolutely no idea at all what you are talking about. Your ask is completely unrealistic. It's never going to be worth it to Blizzard to implement this feature, never under any circumstances will a cost-benefit analysis lead them to say "this is something we should do." Never going to happen. Anyone who really wants this behavior is able to achieve it already via simple macros or using Bartender addon. Anyone except for you that is, because you are apparently completely helpless and unwilling to do any work at all.

    This is the entire purpose that addons and macros exist btw. So that special snowflakes who really want something different can opt-in to it, without cluttering the experience at all for anybody else. The opt-in feature you desire already exists, it's called stance macros and/or bartender. This is as good as you are ever going to get. And to be honest, with a minimum amount of effort, it will work perfectly for what you are trying to do. Therefore what you are asking for is a complete and utter waste of development resources, which is never, ever, ever going to happen, not under any circumstances, not ever.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Why are you so certain it won't get the option? We have seen "crazier" class revamps, haven't we?

    - - - Updated - - -



    But using the same for normal bar and stealth bar is the same issue. I want my Normal bar to be the same as my dance bar, and then a separate stealth bar. Is it crazy to want stealth only abilities, like sap, distract, pickpocket in the actual stealth bar?
    That's what I do, but without a custom stealth bar. IDK why you need a custom one. Bind more buttons and the problem goes away. I don't even look at my bars. They are at 80% transparent in my UI. I have all my binds memorized. Go write a letter to Blizzard and send it to them in the mail, but they probably won't do anything with it.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    What? The thing we CAN'T do now is to customize. Now we have to use the same bar.
    There's a TON of customization you refuse to use. In fact there was even more before before they started to try to appeal to people like you as it was in a case with Demonic Circle merge into one ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    But what should I do, I refuse macros and addons, should I just accept that one of three, 33% of my speccs are unplayable for me?
    Do nothing... and LEAVE
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    I'm sorry but that is completely crazy. You should not REQUIRE addons or macros to actually play one of the speccs.
    I kind of agree here with addons; meaning that I'd prefer game not allowing for any addons but instead game having most popular addons functionality and customization build in BUT not seeing it... pretty much possible really, I'd by faaar rather have current situation than be stuck with some crappy basic terrible UI.
    As for macros... man. Are you also AGAINST keybinds, because if for instance you like/prefer clicking that puts you at disadventage (waay bigger than not using macros really)?!?!
    dumb logic

    Besides, I don't think rogues need action bar pagin AT ALL in all honesty. There is(or was?) a lag associated with bar swapping, and theres just a 2-3 abilities you gain acces by entering stealth anyway...
    Last edited by FAILoZOFF; 2019-05-22 at 06:37 PM.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by FAILoZOFF View Post
    There's a TON of customization you refuse to use. In fact there was even more before before they started to try to appeal to people like you as it was in a case with Demonic Circle merge into one ability.
    Do nothing... and LEAVE

    I kind of agree here with addons; meaning that I'd prefer game not allowing for any addons but instead game having most popular addons functionality and customization build in BUT not seeing it... pretty much possible really, I'd by faaar rather have current situation than be stuck with some crappy basic terrible UI.
    As for macros... man. Are you also AGAINST keybinds, because if for instance you like/prefer clicking that puts you at disadventage (waay bigger than not using macros really)?!?!
    dumb logic

    Besides, I don't think rogues need action bar pagin AT ALL in all honesty. There is(or was?) a lag associated with bar swapping, and theres just a 2-3 abilities you gain acces by entering stealth anyway...
    I am ofc not against keybinds, it's a big difference from macros, come on.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by clinophobia View Post
    How is Outlaw nowadays? Just started playing it and I really like it.
    Don't see if anyone has answered, but really good! Outlaw has unrivaled mobility, fastest and most dynamic rotation of all the specs I've played so far, and has great aoe burst. Only downside is that it's not great for single target fights like mekka, but the survivability of the spec is also near unmatched. Worst pull I did; I was doing 18k dps, got hit by two buster cannons, one crash down, and multi dotted multiple times and still was last alive via vanish. (Mythic mekka*)
    A live DPS is better than a dead one!

    I truly fear that they will destroy it like they did sub.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    I am ofc not against keybinds, it's a big difference from macros, come on.
    That's just... you know... your opinion man. These things are in the same boat for me and most people. Heck, setting UI to my liking was big part of fun I ever had in WoW for years.

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