Thread: The term 'BiS'

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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I'm stating my belief that titanforging is a good thing as it gives raiders the opportunity to continue to raid for small increases in power once they've finished the meat and potatoes of gearing up at their current level. It also gives everyone, even raiders, the incentive to do other content, like dungeons and open world content, because there is a chance that it would be profitable to do so, instead of simply writing off 3/4 of the expansion content as "useless."

    As for the still paying their sub part, there is a very cynical part of the playerbase who has become obsessed with the concept of MAU, or some such, which related to time played in some fashion, and believe that every choice Blizz does, from time gating questlines to titanforging for small upgrades, is some insidious evil plot meant to take advantage of players.

    And there's also a part of the playerbase who absolutely hate the idea of raid/dungeon difficulties. They go "Blizz is too lazy to give us more raids, so they just add difficulties to them. Why should I want to do a boss on normal or heroic since I've done it on LFR, give me more stuff, Blizz." So to them, they do what they want to, then come to the forums to complain that there's nothing to do, and when they're told "why don't you try the next difficulty up?", they poisonously respond that doing the same thing again on a higher difficulty is "not content."
    Yea, WF/TF was one of the worst things they've ever done to the game. My opinion, just like yours is that you think it's good. Guess it's the raiding purist in me. Elitist, sure, but you should never, ever, be able to get high-end items from killing random mobs or completing a simple quest.

    Everything every game developer does is to keep people playing, so I'm unsure how that cynical or something? I didn't think that would be the part you would get hung up on. It is true though that the more someone plays, the more likely they are to buy something from a shop.

    The last part... is tricky. Back when there used to be one raid size per raid there was nothing to do when you cleared the raid except wait for the lockout or farm for mats (I always bought from the AH heh). Then came 10/25. That was nice, and you basically ran the opposite size with a PUG. As a raiding purist, I enjoyed this setup. Then came 10/25 N/H. As a raiding purist, *and* as someone who still had gobs of time to play games, I enjoyed this too. Then. Raiding was turned into an abomination with Dragon Soul. While I quit the day it was released, I've come back multiple times since, and always still troll MMO-C but Dragon Soul (see: LFR) was when I started seeing players complain about "difficulties". I never once seen anyone complain about difficulties vs more raids as much since that drastic change to raiding happened. Sure, you always had people who had nothing to do once they cleared a raid for the week and wanted more raiding (I was the same way), but that to me was a good thing. That was players literally loving the game/raiding so much they wanted more. As funny as it is, people who complain about trying a higher difficulty use that excuse because... they can't do higher difficulties. Coupled with the fact that they *are* fundamentally correct. Higher difficulties isn't "more content", so it's also the same thing as always. They love the game (well duh, they are doing easy difficulties) and want more raids. Wanting more raids after you cleared a raid has never gone away.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Elitist, sure, but you should never, ever, be able to get high-end items from killing random mobs or completing a simple quest.
    So you want them to remove crafting entirely? Cause from day one there were options to craft high-end items from killing random mobs and harvesting either their drops or gathered items via professions. Your whole post basically reads "I believe people shouldn't have nice things unless they earn them the only way I feel it is proper to earn them: in raids."
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    So you want them to remove crafting entirely? Cause from day one there were options to craft high-end items from killing random mobs and harvesting either their drops or gathered items via professions. Your whole post basically reads "I believe people shouldn't have nice things unless they earn them the only way I feel it is proper to earn them: in raids."
    Crafting is way different. And you literally say why, but in regards to raiding. EARN. Crafted items aren't handed to you the way gear *is* currently handed to you. The game went downhill (frankly the real-world itself) when people had to stop earning things and expect things to be handed to them.

    I will truly never understand how people are completely ok with being able to get the same gear in something almost (more than?) half a raid can be AFK in that you can get in the highest difficulty content. This of course is a side-effect of the WF/TF.

  4. #64
    it should be BIOS (best in overall slot) and not BIS meaning that this item is the best one to have when you have all the others bis too... but until you have everrything on the bis list, some of them can be changed easily

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    BiS no longer exist with titanforging.
    Quoting for truth.

    TF destroyed the idea of BISes.

  6. #66
    I consider BiS the top mythic non-forged/socket items available. Then consider the things beyond that as bonus.

  7. #67
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    BiS is an outdated term i think. In the past there was only one set of items you needed to get for every situation and that's it.

    These days however, it refers to the best reliable drop items to get for pure single target scenarios (or "patchwerk fights"). That means it more often than not does not take into account item pools from M+, warforged or titanforged items. It also does not take into account the type of content you do.
    "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted" ~Einstein
    Wish more people would take that to heart.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillside View Post
    You have to understand that there is a major difference between an actual content and running the same content over and over and over again untill you wanna throw up, because rng is not on your side
    WoW is not your game then, this is the case since vanilla.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Crafting is way different. And you literally say why, but in regards to raiding. EARN. Crafted items aren't handed to you the way gear *is* currently handed to you. The game went downhill (frankly the real-world itself) when people had to stop earning things and expect things to be handed to them.

    I will truly never understand how people are completely ok with being able to get the same gear in something almost (more than?) half a raid can be AFK in that you can get in the highest difficulty content. This of course is a side-effect of the WF/TF.
    How is crafting different? You said you didn't want people to be able to get high-end gear just from killing random mobs. Back in MoP I could make as many heroic-raid level legs and boots I wanted, and put them on the AH, by mindlessly killing goats in a questing area in Vot4W.

    Also, the odds of something titanforging to max from LFR is infinitessimally small. If you're doing mythic raiding, it only needs to titanforge like 4x to reach max. That happens commonly enough that getting max gear in several slots is practical. From WQs or reg mythics or LFR they'd need to titanforge like 12x. That's like getting struck by lightning odds.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    How is crafting different? You said you didn't want people to be able to get high-end gear just from killing random mobs. Back in MoP I could make as many heroic-raid level legs and boots I wanted, and put them on the AH, by mindlessly killing goats in a questing area in Vot4W.

    Also, the odds of something titanforging to max from LFR is infinitessimally small. If you're doing mythic raiding, it only needs to titanforge like 4x to reach max. That happens commonly enough that getting max gear in several slots is practical. From WQs or reg mythics or LFR they'd need to titanforge like 12x. That's like getting struck by lightning odds.
    Right, but it required you to put in an ounce of effort. Not the 30 minutes an LFR takes , 29 of which you can AFK watching TV.

  11. #71
    I don't know about anyone else; but I found when I geared up (with wf/tf in game) once I got an item that was "bis" I had no desire to bother trying to get a wf/tf version of the same item. I'm not going to kill the same boss 10-20x to try to get the same item 10-20ilvls higher; What a waste of time. The whole concept of wf/tf is idiotic.

  12. #72
    BiS is the short form of bullshit.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Softbottom View Post
    I don't know about anyone else; but I found when I geared up (with wf/tf in game) once I got an item that was "bis" I had no desire to bother trying to get a wf/tf version of the same item. I'm not going to kill the same boss 10-20x to try to get the same item 10-20ilvls higher; What a waste of time. The whole concept of wf/tf is idiotic.
    so, once you got what you considered the best version of an item you stopped bothering with the content that dropped it?

    that is why titanforging exists. Just because you stop doesnt mean others will.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    so, once you got what you considered the best version of an item you stopped bothering with the content that dropped it?

    that is why titanforging exists. Just because you stop doesnt mean others will.
    Yep pretty much. I never liked the concept of wf/tf. For the people who do im surprised it keeps you running the same content.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Season2mask View Post
    Every so often I come across something in WoW that I should know, but is suddenly confusing.

    What does BiS mean, to you?


    Last night a helm dropped that was an upgrade for me. Let's call it helm 1. I went to various guides before rolling and seen that it was listed as BiS. I said this in my note, but as we discussed the helm, someone replied to me saying it's not my BiS, in fact helm 2 is much better. I was fuzzy thinking at the time and let it go.

    Today I asked around and people are saying that the guy that simmed using dropoptimizer, is an idiot, because he simmed my current gear. Meaning that helm 1 is better for me over helm 2, right now, but helm 1 is still BiS overall.

    That brings me onto what BiS actually means, because I'm getting a lot of conflicting information. I always thought BiS means 'the best possible gear set' so if I had the that list, it'd be the best I could have. Other people say BiS lists are trash and they say because it doesn't take into account your current gear. Which, as I wrote above, is what got that other guy called an idiot. Some people also say BiS just means 'a good piece of gear'

    So what do you think about BiS lists?

    1. Does BiS mean 'this item is best in slot' IF you have every other item on this list.
    2. Does BiS mean 'this item is the best item you can get right now with your current gear'
    BiS always meant best in slot, however those item mostly don't exist anymore besides few exceptions like:
    1) Trinkets
    2) Azerite pieces for specs which traits performance doesnt depend on stats
    3) Few specs (e.g. Mistweaver) who mostly value two stats (crit and mastery), probably there is only one item in game with combination of those two stats and you will aim for the best version of those items.

    In WoW stats have diminishing returns (increasing value of stat from 100 to 200 makes you much stronger than you were before compared to increasing it from 1000 to 1100). Almost since Vanilla you could calculate best ratio of stats for given situation. Until Legion there was very few items per item slot and a lot of specs had useless stats. So majority of specs had only 1 useful item per slot which was called best in slot. There was few slots where you had a choice but often you would just use those to fix your stat ratios.

    Currently a lot of stats are closer than they ever were and we have up to 10 items (that can be close to the highest ilvl) per slot. You can achieve best ratio of stats in so many different ways that term best in slot lost it's value. Right now you can use it only for exceptions.

    Your helmet might be one of those exceptions.
    Last edited by Lenis; 2019-02-04 at 12:59 PM.

  16. #76
    There is BiS for people who are pedantic, that piece that is max TF with a socket and tertiary stat.

    Then there is BiS for people who are realistic, that piece that is one of the best you can feasibly expect to get for a specific slot this tier. For instance any crawg tusks 410 or higher would be BiS for me because of the astronomical amount of luck it would take to get a wf tusks with a socket.

    It all comes down to are you pedantic or are you realistic.

  17. #77
    BIS made sense in a time before variable item levels, random sockets and tertiary stats... Now it's a pretty vague term to mean "potentially ideal upgrade" since actual "BIS" is now effectively impossible for the most part.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Season2mask View Post
    Every so often I come across something in WoW that I should know, but is suddenly confusing.

    What does BiS mean, to you?


    Last night a helm dropped that was an upgrade for me. Let's call it helm 1. I went to various guides before rolling and seen that it was listed as BiS. I said this in my note, but as we discussed the helm, someone replied to me saying it's not my BiS, in fact helm 2 is much better. I was fuzzy thinking at the time and let it go.

    Today I asked around and people are saying that the guy that simmed using dropoptimizer, is an idiot, because he simmed my current gear. Meaning that helm 1 is better for me over helm 2, right now, but helm 1 is still BiS overall.

    That brings me onto what BiS actually means, because I'm getting a lot of conflicting information. I always thought BiS means 'the best possible gear set' so if I had the that list, it'd be the best I could have. Other people say BiS lists are trash and they say because it doesn't take into account your current gear. Which, as I wrote above, is what got that other guy called an idiot. Some people also say BiS just means 'a good piece of gear'

    So what do you think about BiS lists?

    1. Does BiS mean 'this item is best in slot' IF you have every other item on this list.
    2. Does BiS mean 'this item is the best item you can get right now with your current gear'
    Quite straightforward, isn't it?

    Besides procs, the best obtainable item for that slot.

  19. #79
    BiS should mean the best stated item in that slot at the highest level it drops (no WF or TF)

    so if your best stats are haste/crit and mythic raid drops some haste/crit wrists those are BiS.

    yes some haste/versa mythic+ 425 TF wrists might be better but which is realistic and which is an unlikely dream? you should aim for a likely BiS from reliable drops and if you get a huge TF go with it duh.

  20. #80
    "there is no such thing as bis anymore"... come on guys.

    The author specified an azerite piece who can't titanforge or have socket or other stats.. you DO have a BIS for all those 3 slots.

    It's the piece you want in that slot to maximize your output obviously. In that case, the one with the best trait combination for your class.

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