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  1. #1

    Holy Paladin PVE

    Hey all. I open this thread because I m not happy with the playing style of holy Paladin. In this patch I get the feeling during the raid that all the other classes are better in numbers and utility than us. I m quite happy in mythic plus but in raids I m not happy with the aoe and cds. We basically have only one. Is that only me or anymore have the same feeling?

  2. #2
    Yeh that's the general feeling. Besides infusion of light none of our toolkit really flows with each other. It's just use on cooldown and use holy light/flash of light as filler.

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire
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    Holy Paladin as-is may be the worst playing healer I've played in any MMO.

    The archetype has never been anything dazzling in this game, it's low creativity, but Paladin's take on it has always been boilerplate at best and outright terrible at worst. What is on display right now is a whole 'nother level of mediocrity. I've played RPGs from the 80s that had more depth and style to their healing than the current Holy Paladin.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    We are not blanket healers, that's just a fact we have to live with. There are many situations where a Holy Paladin will be able to do just as much healing as everyone else, but the brainless blanket healing specs will almost always win.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mpella View Post
    Hey all. I open this thread because I m not happy with the playing style of holy Paladin. In this patch I get the feeling during the raid that all the other classes are better in numbers and utility than us. I m quite happy in mythic plus but in raids I m not happy with the aoe and cds. We basically have only one. Is that only me or anymore have the same feeling?
    A big part of that problem comes from the raid being heavy on raid dmg and not much on the tanks. Holy pally aoe heals are absolutely crap. It's only decent when you get triple proc of light of dawn reset, anything less is basically an irrelevant amount of healing that would have been covered by other healers even if the pally doesn't cast anything. That's just a reality that we are gonna live with this tier because this would require a class rework to fix, even if they crank up numbers it will never help unless it becomes absolutely ridiculous in other aspects of the game. Like to be competitive in raid light of dawn would need to heal for over 100k noncrit per person which of course would be ridiculous in M+ and PvP. The real issue is that there is a skill missing to aoe heal more efficiently and be more reliable instead of depending on cooldowns while monks just dance around padding with essence font all day.

  6. #6
    Critique against the playstyle of holy is fine (and i do agree to most of what has been said here) since it is subjective, but the numbers arent as bad as most people claim. Yes, if you only look at HPS paladins more often than not near/at the bottom but this doesnt take into account devo which on its own can reduce the incoming damage by several thousand per second (i've had zul kills with 8000+ DRPS). On top of that they are mana efficient and bring tons of utility in form of personal immunity, external physical immunity and BoF.

    My biggest issue with paladins are aura of mercy and sac. They are simply not competitive against devo in almost every situation and bringing 2 paladins diminishes the value. I liked legion sac but it was too powerful compared to devo and mercy. It would be great if it was possible to balance/rework that talent row so each had its use.

  7. #7
    It’s not so bad that groups and guilds won’t take you. Although I have to admit I’m not making the effort to raid Mythic so I don’t know for sure at that level.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    You guys should check out this channel for help on how play your Holy Paladin. https://www.youtube.com/user/holypalaswe

  9. #9
    I hate the mastery. Love all about holy except the mastery.

    EDIt: In legion I had a talent that could negate that mastery with the beacon on the tanks and I was with the ranged, it didn't always wor perfectly but I kept me playing the way I like to play holy, blizzard destroyed me when they eliminated that talent for BFA, playing as a fury warrior now, and I love it.
    Last edited by eduwneso; 2019-02-07 at 03:10 PM.

  10. #10

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    You guys should check out this channel for help on how play your Holy Paladin. https://www.youtube.com/user/holypalaswe
    You should check out this video on learning to read so you can properly read the OP before offering your thoughts.


  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waltzinblack View Post
    You should check out this video on learning to read so you can properly read the OP before offering your thoughts.

    Thank you, that won't be necessary. Joking aside, that guy is one of the best Holy Paladins in the world, everyone can learn something from watching his videos.
    Last edited by CptEgo; 2019-02-11 at 07:26 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    Thank you, that won't be necessary. Joking aside, that guy is one of the best Holy Paladins in the world, everyone can learn something from watching his videos.
    You're missing the point though. The class is uninspired, boring as fuck and its performance is probably the worst it has ever been. Watching somebody else play it doesn't make the class better so your post was entirely pointless. The OP isn't asking for tips.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waltzinblack View Post
    You're missing the point though. The class is uninspired, boring as fuck and its performance is probably the worst it has ever been. Watching somebody else play it doesn't make the class better so your post was entirely pointless. The OP isn't asking for tips.
    Yes, watching someone playing it "right" does make you and OP better. It is entirely possible to keep up with other healing specs as a Holy Paladin. And 'boring as fuck' is not really feedback anyone can use for anything. I don't find Holy boring at all, that's all a matter of perspective. Running around spamming Essence Font would be boring though.
    Last edited by CptEgo; 2019-02-12 at 03:10 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    Yes, watching someone playing it "right" does make you and OP better. It is entirely possible to keep up with other healing specs as a Holy Paladin.
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../21#metric=hps

    Again I reiterate - nobody here is asking for fucking tips on how to play. The class is literally the dumbest it's ever been and if you need guidance on how to get the maximum performance out of the current state of holy you need to quit the game.
    Last edited by Waltzinblack; 2019-02-12 at 03:12 PM.

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waltzinblack View Post
    Yes, the skill required is certainly higher for Holy. No, but I understand the numbers might be slightly lower right now.
    Last edited by CptEgo; 2019-02-12 at 03:14 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    Yes, the skill required is certainly higher for Holy.
    No no that's not how it works. There's no indication of a skill requirement from that graph, instead you'd have to look at a bell graph of performances, which is a different matter entirely. I've played holy for 10+ years and there is almost zero skill cap currently.

    Let's switch it up to 99th percentile and you can see the problem is exacerbated. This further proves if you're playing to an extremely high level of play, you're going to do even worse against other classes also playing at 99th percentile levels.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...hps&dataset=99
    Last edited by Waltzinblack; 2019-02-12 at 03:19 PM.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waltzinblack View Post
    No no that's not how it works. There's no indication of a skill requirement from that graph, instead you'd have to look at a bell graph of performances, which is a different matter entirely. I've played holy for 10+ years and there is almost zero skill cap currently.

    Let's switch it up to 99th percentile and you can see the problem is exacerbated. This further proves if you're playing to an extremely high level of play, you're going to do even worse against other classes also playing at 99th percentile levels.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...hps&dataset=99
    I'll take your word for it, I'm only a N/H raider myself. I'm sure changes will happen if it's that bad. Some of the healing is lost by using Devo aura though isn't it? Everyone's using Devo. Using Mercy would probably add like 10% healing.
    Last edited by CptEgo; 2019-02-12 at 03:57 PM.

  19. #19
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    I feel a little weaker right now due to all the AOE damage than I did in Uldir. In Uldir, I crushed it. But I'm still doing well. I'm also having to get used to having a Shaman raid healing with me now, and chain heal beating me. But still, I do quite well and I'll improve as I learn how to maximize healing on each fight.

    I've loved Holy Pally since I started playing it in TBC >.<

  20. #20
    Holy's Mastery is garbage, and its toolkit was not allowed to keep up with all the other healers. A well played Holy pally is great to see, but sadly they're rare. I can't blame someone for thinking "Why not go full mobility, no position requirements, no shitty cast times, plenty of AoE?"
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