Outlaw flaws

[Polarthief]

the best change for rtb is making all the buffs semi balanced and add a cooldown so rerolling is completely out of the question. Thats what i hate the absolute most with outlaw, having to fish for buffs, main reason im not even trying the spec again after legion

But... then you have a watered down spec that is very simple. The whole complexity in Outlaw is knowing when to hold certain buffs. BS on 1 target is mediocre, but on cleave it's amazing. TB is usually bad, but if you like getting 4 Adrenaline Rushes (a 3m cooldown) in 3 minutes or really need the extra mobility while attacking on the go, it's actually quite a nice benefit. If there's tons of incoming damage, GM is quite a nice buff to hold (and honestly isn't that bad of a loss to hold onto most of the time, esp if you're having just the worst luck rolling). If RtB had a cooldown, I wouldn't play the spec because it would be incredibly boring and same-y: Roll your buff > BtE > Dispatch. Rinse-repeat each time BtE is up/RtB is down.

Buffing the weaker buffs (or melding them into the other weaker buffs)? Yes, absolutely. Adding a cooldown to RtB? No please no. The spec is easy enough once you know what you're doing.

I really wish blizz would do something to make Outlaw's single target opener damage to be a little higher. Right now it's pathetic most of the time, and even if you get a five roll on pull the opener damage isn't anything crazy at all. Perhaps they could make KS a more viable option again to give outlaw a little more ST firepower.

I guess, but TBH I rather hate KS or any ability that's "channeled" like that, especially when you're a class with a resource that grows upwards and can't use KS at certain points or you're wasting said resource (energy in this case). I also don't think KS is all that great of a cooldown to begin with, especially when it doesn't at all compete with DS/BR. Making it baseline is just another button I have to remember to press once every so often.

Now making Ambush worth a damn and do something more than "a guaranteed 2 CP SS that does a touch more damage", that'd be cool. How about Ambush gives 3 CP and an Opportunity proc? How about making it give a guaranteed 2 roll? Though then Vanish becomes too good and we probably can't have that, unless we want it removed from Restless Blades (please god no).

[Naiattavain]

well im subtlety rogue and i get beat really bad in duels every time by outlaw and assassination. then at the end of the duel i die. im sure its a bug. blizzard didn't say they changed it.

[Aldo Hawk]

Now making Ambush worth a damn and do something more than "a guaranteed 2 CP SS that does a touch more damage", that'd be cool. How about Ambush gives 3 CP and an Opportunity proc? How about making it give a guaranteed 2 roll? Though then Vanish becomes too good and we probably can't have that, unless we want it removed from Restless Blades (please god no).

I was reading the new comments on the previous page and i was literally thinking about giving ambush more damage and generate 4 CP XD

I miss the buff that gave 100% opportunity proc from Legion. That little thing gave Outlaw a real opener placing the player with 6 CP. Although it was based on stagnant talent options which is another of Outlaw's problems but it was good.

[Vitinariy]

I guess, but TBH I rather hate KS or any ability that's "channeled" like that, especially when you're a class with a resource that grows upwards and can't use KS at certain points or you're wasting said resource (energy in this case).

That part is kind of easy to fix though. They could just make KS consume energy with every tick. They could even tie damage to amount of energy like FB for Feral. I'm not a fan of it either, but it's sort of a signature combat ability.

[Aldo Hawk]

That part is kind of easy to fix though. They could just make KS consume energy with every tick. They could even tie damage to amount of energy like FB for Feral. I'm not a fan of it either, but it's sort of a signature combat ability.

This is an interesting idea.

I would make it as a some kind of finisher.

I think that making it cost combo points and a whole energy bar could justify a higher damage and even an extra effect as reducing armor on the target or something.

Maybe even block energy regen while it lasts and apply some sort of damage amplifier or armor reduction to the objective, that would make for KS to not be a good idea to use while AR isn't active while being an interesting skill to use by itself. (well, it already isn't unless you manage to spend all your energy before pressing KS, which can be done but most of the time even then it's energy lost).

There's endless possibilities, i just hope Blizzard could be more flexible during expansions instead of waiting for the next one.

[shoegazing]

I think outlaw is fine except for the mastery being kind of bad. The BFA remake of Outlaw was very successful in terms of making it more fun and more usable. If you don't like how outlaw plays in raid because of its bad consistency and mediocre ST, then assassin is waiting for you over there (and sub too whenever it's made into a non-cripple spec).

I agree that loaded dice belongs as a baseline passive. I don't think it would make the class too powerful. It would just make it so that you don't have situations in which you are a potato on a boss in M+ rerolling until it's at 30% health. Even that is not so bad because of the spec strengths on trash. You will either be on par with other classes or a bit better or you will be potato level and you just have to plan your comp etc. around that.

What if I don't like how it plays in PvP?

NOTE: I don't like how Assassination or Subtlety play in PvP either, they're both boring damage bots that no longer have the Rogue playstyle

[Vitinariy]

What if I don't like how it plays in PvP?

Mmmm... I think devs stopped even pretending that they care about PvP quite a while ago?

But out of curiosity, what is the exact part you don't like? Other than RNG on RtB and a stun that is kind of in our rotation.

[shoegazing]

Mmmm... I think devs stopped even pretending that they care about PvP quite a while ago?

But out of curiosity, what is the exact part you don't like? Other than RNG on RtB and a stun that is kind of in our rotation.

The RNG is terrible because Rogue PvP should be about planning and choosing your moments. As bad as the RNG is in PvE (and it's bad) it's far worse in PvP.

BTE is terrible because instant ranged stuns are just cheesy.

Shadowstep is vastly more interesting and useful than Grappling Hook.

There is no option for the Rogue class that plays and feels like a traditional Rogue in PvP. Yahtzee Pirate is a non-starter for the reasons mentioned above and many others, Assassination is a dumbed down rotation bot that's only good for running at people and 223ing at them, as for Subtlety I encourage you to read my threads on the topic.

[Aldo Hawk]

With the new essences, I feel some problems of the Outlaw rogue have been handled very well.

For example, this essence: https://www.wowhead.com/search?q=Memory+of+lucid+dreams Does a good job at avoiding energy starvation, it's like a second combat potency, and also a second adrenaline rush.

What have been your experiences with the essences so far? I plan to put the mentioned one in a minor slot and then putting https://www.wowhead.com/search?q=Vision+of+perfection in the main slot.

This thing is a total game changer for sure!

[CopyX1982]

I'm actually leveling my Rogue as I type, and, well, I know I'm gonna get ridiculed/routed on or whatever, but I find RtB such a pain in the ass that I go SnD purely so I don't have to spam rolls to get a decent one, & I've tried just going with whatever roll you get from every cast of RtB but some rolls feel SO. BAD.