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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Forsaken had more humane treatment? Like force feeding prisoners with the blight?
    You did say that the Alliance had no right to go after Grom since he wasnt an Alliance citizen.

    Grom was captured by the time he was Thrall right hand man.

    He was a captain not a random grunt. But still the fact is its the NE lands, and Thrall should have been well aware that the orc are not welcome since all the skrimishes that were happening, but there had to be a battleground so the story tooked the back seat.
    Atleast the forsakens didn't force humans to kill the ones they loved in gladiatorial matches and made it thing anyone can have. Emotional and physical distress from it is much worse than blight experiments because some of them actually lived and had to remember what they did. Forcing feeding prisoners blight is easily comperable to kirin tors experiments on orcs. Plus all other "nice treament" blackmoore did to thrall and other prisoners.

    I said they had no right imprison him, killing is a totally different thing.

    Yeah he was captured by then but you can only blame him on the commands of the horde of draenor. Also on the intermenr camp front thrall offered to spare all the humans if they let the orcs go. Compared on alliance aggreaion orcs atleast show they can negotiate.

    Captain is so low of a rank he doean't have say in overall strategy so his oppiniona matter as much as grunts.
    NE didn't problems with while they were allied why would they have if they weren't at war.

  2. #182
    Pandaren Monk Benomatic's Avatar
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    Only for the purge of the undead.

  3. #183
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    I don't but baine sure as hell does.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    Atleast the forsakens didn't force humans to kill the ones they loved in gladiatorial matches and made it thing anyone can have. Emotional and physical distress from it is much worse than blight experiments because some of them actually lived and had to remember what they did. Forcing feeding prisoners blight is easily comperable to kirin tors experiments on orcs. Plus all other "nice treament" blackmoore did to thrall and other prisoners.

    I said they had no right imprison him, killing is a totally different thing.

    Yeah he was captured by then but you can only blame him on the commands of the horde of draenor. Also on the intermenr camp front thrall offered to spare all the humans if they let the orcs go. Compared on alliance aggreaion orcs atleast show they can negotiate.

    Captain is so low of a rank he doean't have say in overall strategy so his oppiniona matter as much as grunts.
    NE didn't problems with while they were allied why would they have if they weren't at war.
    Both were cruel but to argue that the Forsken were MUCH more humane is just ignoring everything we know about the Forsken, is not just the blight but turning prisoners in ghouls and in the case of Brennadam, turning People to fish So they can die due to lack of air and laughing all the way, that is the very def of inhumane.

    Why, why they had no right to imprison him, you know the Horde takes Alliance prisoners as well? Every factions does it.

    He attacked the camps alongside Thrall.
    Giving the soldiers a chance to surrender means nothing when talking in this context, Thrall attacked first.

    They didnt have a problem? Thats just your headcanon,by attaking the Horde in vanilla its clear what they wanted.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-11 at 05:45 PM.

  5. #185
    Only Forsaken and Goblins.

    Forsaken are already dead, and Goblins, well, its feels just like when killing Gnomes ... and cockroaches *evil grin*

  6. #186
    As long as it's not another douchebag ret pala jerkoff which is supposed to be for the greater good or some nonsense like that, implying that the upstanding Alliance is doing the world a favor. Evidently that won't happen cause the moment the Alliance does something mildly.. not good a wave of nelf and human ret tears hit the forums and they have to whitewash it later.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    As long as it's not another douchebag ret pala jerkoff which is supposed to be for the greater good or some nonsense like that, implying that the upstanding Alliance is doing the world a favor. Evidently that won't happen cause the moment the Alliance does something mildly.. not good a wave of nelf and human ret tears hit the forums and they have to whitewash it later.
    Wut nelf fans still seeking vengeance for Teldrassil. Kill all the Forsaken, death to the Horde! While we're at it, if Manduin is colateral damage, ... well how UNFORTUNATE ...

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Both were cruel but to argue that the Forsken were MUCH more humane is just ignoring everything we know about the Forsken, is not just the blight but turning prisoners in ghouls and in the case of Brennadam, turning People to fish So they can die due to lack of air and laughing all the way, that is the very def of inhumane.

    Why, why they had no right to imprison him, you know the Horde takes Alliance prisoners as well? Every factions does it.

    He attacked the camps alongside Thrall.
    Giving the soldiers a chance to surrender means nothing when talking in this context, Thrall attacked first.

    They didnt have a problem? Thats just your headcanon,by attaking the Horde in vanilla its clear what they wanted.
    Yeah forsakens are commonly cruel, but murder is far less cruel than destroying individuals emotionally being forced to murder your loved ones for the entertaiment of human population is alot crueler as they are shouting and laughing at you when you fight. Also Blackmoore as individual is ALOT crueler than most forsakens and he was the head of the interment camps.

    Taking prisoners is inhumane and in every sense of the word wrong as soldiers and other people always mistreat prisoners of war.

    Well true, but then KT crashing their ships on darkspear territory and trying to wipe them out there needs to be counted aswell as we count to gilneas here.

    If they didn't demand horde to leave then its from hordes PoV that they didn't have a problem and all that matters who attacked first as you said with the durnholde keep thing.

    So if we take out the old horde as you said before they are irelevant here.

    Horde 3 Alliance 7.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    Yeah forsakens are commonly cruel, but murder is far less cruel than destroying individuals emotionally being forced to murder your loved ones for the entertaiment of human population is alot crueler as they are shouting and laughing at you when you fight. Also Blackmoore as individual is ALOT crueler than most forsakens and he was the head of the interment camps.
    Forsaken are laughing while torturing others as well, they are not just murdering them, they are torturing them.

    Taking prisoners is inhumane and in every sense of the word wrong as soldiers and other people always mistreat prisoners of war.
    Then the Horde is guilty of it as well, everybody is.

    Well true, but then KT crashing their ships on darkspear territory and trying to wipe them out there needs to be counted aswell as we count to gilneas here
    Count then the Warsong clan trying to wipe out the Humans in the Barrens in WC3.

    If they didn't demand horde to leave then its from hordes PoV that they didn't have a problem and all that matters who attacked first as you said with the durnholde keep thing.
    Again you dont have any source saying they didnt, they clearly didnt want the orcs there, and the orcs knew it and didnt care. Its wasnt their land, nothing ever indicated the NE allowed the orcs to remain.

    So if we take out the old horde as you said before they are irelevant here.

    Horde 3 Alliance 7.
    There is so many attacks made by both its def not 10 in total, for the Horde what comes to mind are Hillsbrad and Arathi(and no, 10 lvl mage npcs are not the cause), Ashenvale, Blood war, Thrall revolt, Gilneas, Forsaken experiments on Alliance races like the dwarves.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-11 at 10:12 PM.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    Forsaken are laughing while torturing others as well, they are not just murdering them, they are torturing them.



    Then the Horde is guilty of it as well, everybody is.



    Count then the Warsong clan trying to wipe out the Humans in the Barrens in WC3.



    Again you dont have any source saying they didnt, they clearly didnt want the orcs there, and the orcs knew it and didnt care. Its wasnt their land, nothing ever indicated the NE allowed the orcs to remain.



    There is so many attacks made by both its def not 10 in total, for the Horde what comes to mind are Hillsbrad and Arathi(and no, 10 lvl mage npcs are not the cause), Ashenvale, Blood war, Thrall revolt, Gilneas, Forsaken experiments on Alliance races like the dwarves.
    So was blackmoore and he killed taretha and threw her lifeless head infront of thrall trying to brake him. Also tge human population laughing at orcs killing their own loved ones is extremely sick.

    Yeah everyone is but we aren't here to talk about that.

    Then we have to count both times when NE attacked warsong wood cutting and still even though its NE land they still attacked first both times which means they started it.

    Well TFT NE didn't attack orcs who were gathering wood in ashenvale(rexxar) campaign. As they didn't demand warsong to leave before battle of mount hyjal it proves enough.

    It can be interpited as same conflict as it happened in the same area in short span of time between same two major political powers. also they were 16-20.
    Which ashenvale do you mean? I said blood war already, Thrall revolt we counted it already, Gilneas counted aswell, experiment can't be counted as warmongering...

    I talked on MY original post which you commented on which side is bigger warmonger and only way to count it is to count which side started major war or major battle outside wartime. As most wotlk, cata till MoP Ally V Horde conflicted is counted on the war Varian declared in undercity so only attacking goblins, attacking Gilneas from that time can be interpited as warmongering.
    Last edited by Terongor; 2019-02-11 at 10:51 PM.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    [So was blackmoore and he killed taretha and threw her lifeless head infront of thrall trying to brake him. Also tge human population laughing at orcs killing their own loved ones is extremely sick.
    They were both cruel, but the Forsaken are not MUCH more humane as you claimed.

    Yeah everyone is but we aren't here to talk about that.
    Grom was captured as a prisoner of war, he prob would have been executed. I dont see the confusion. Torturing Pov is one thing but Southshore had every right to imprison him.

    Then we have to count both times when NE attacked warsong wood cutting and still even though its NE land they still attacked first both times which means they started it.
    Both times? The orcs may have had the excuse of not knowing it wasn't occupied, but still staying means they never gave a shit, to begin with. And not to mention they heard NE talking behind the woods, which Grom brushed off.

    Well TFT NE didn't attack orcs who were gathering wood in ashenvale(rexxar) campaign. As they didn't demand warsong to leave before battle of mount hyjal it proves enough.
    There was no mention of Ashenvale in the Rexxar campgain.

    experiment can't be counted as warmongering...
    noun
    a person who encourages or advocates aggression towards other countries or groups.

    I talked on MY original post which you commented on which side is bigger warmonger and only way to count it is to count which side started major war or major battle outside wartime. As most wotlk, cata till MoP Ally V Horde conflicted is counted on the war Varian declared in undercity so only attacking goblins, attacking Gilneas from that time can be interpited as warmongering.
    Forsaken attacked Arathi and Hillsbrad outside wartime, the Horde continued chope down woods in the NE lands outside wartime as well.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-11 at 11:24 PM.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    They were both cruel, but the Forsaken are not MUCH more humane as you claimed.



    Grom was captured as a prisoner of war, he prob would have been executed. I dont see the confusion.



    Both times? The orcs may have had the excuse of not knowing it wasn't occupied, but still staying means they never gave a shit, to begin with. And not to mention they heard NE talking behing the woords, which Grom burshed off.


    There was no mention of Ashenvale in the Rexxar campgain.







    I talked on MY original post which you commented on which side is bigger warmonger and only way to count it is to count which side started major war or major battle outside wartime. As most wotlk, cata till MoP Ally V Horde conflicted is counted on the war Varian declared in undercity so only attacking goblins, attacking Gilneas from that time can be interpited as warmongering.
    Forsaken attacked Arathi and Hillsbrad outside wartime, the Horde continued chope woods in the NE lands outside wartime as well.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah they were as we see some forsakens in the desolate council in before the storm and on novels we have seen many forsakens disaproof garroshes actions and show alot of decency, but when you compare that to what Blackmoore and all the other interment camps did under his command.

    Its much more moral right to slay an honorable enemy in the field of battle rather than parade him and disgrace him before killing him.

    Oh yeah sorry I keep mixxing up the wc3 and chronicles 3

    Also battle over hillsbrad is hard to say when it actually happened as the only majot attack on it happened in cata which destroyed, but that is counted on war Varian declared.

    Arathi forces which you are refering to were rebels they didn't own the kingdom nor land as they didn't bow down to Galen Trollbane who had left alliance but they stayed which is open rebellion and all rebels are outside of of laws protection. Still chopping the wood wasn't an act of aggression NE did the act of aggresion they should have sent messanger to Thrall on both times asking him to stop as Thrall did in Durnholde.

  13. #193
    --- snip ---

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2019-02-11 at 11:57 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post

    Yeah they were as we see some forsakens in the desolate council in before the storm and on novels we have seen many forsakens disaproof garroshes actions and show alot of decency, but when you compare that to what Blackmoore and all the other interment camps did under his command.

    Its much more moral right to slay an honorable enemy in the field of battle rather than parade him and disgrace him before killing him.

    Oh yeah sorry I keep mixxing up the wc3 and chronicles 3

    Also battle over hillsbrad is hard to say when it actually happened as the only majot attack on it happened in cata which destroyed, but that is counted on war Varian declared.

    Arathi forces which you are refering to were rebels they didn't own the kingdom nor land as they didn't bow down to Galen Trollbane who had left alliance but they stayed which is open rebellion and all rebels are outside of of laws protection. Still chopping the wood wasn't an act of aggression NE did the act of aggresion they should have sent messanger to Thrall on both times asking him to stop as Thrall did in Durnholde.
    And there were humans in Lordareon that didnt enjoy watching orcs kill each other either, Taretha for example.

    How did they paraded him and disgraced him? They throwed him in a prison as it was their right.

    Hilllsbrad started when Sylvanas and Varithmas wanted to remove human presence in Hilllsbrad, Arathi forces in the battleground were Alliance associated, with the goal of putting Alliance flags.

    Thrall already attacked numerous camps before Durnholde, I dont recall him making that offer before, since he went in undercover to inspire the orcs to revolt. And besides the orcs in Ashenvale heard somebody was there and Grom brushed it off. Thrall should have stopped the Warsong in Vanilla since it wasnt Horde land and the NE made that clear.
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-12 at 12:02 AM.

  15. #195
    I for one support the genocide of any race in WoW. I'd love to see a full deployment of blight against Stormwind, for example and raise every one of them into undeath.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    And there were humans in Lordareon that didnt enjoy watching orcs kill each other either, Taretha for example.

    How did they paraded him and disgraced him? They throwed him in a prison as it was their right.

    Hilllsbrad started when Sylvanas and Varithmas wanted to remove human presence in Hilllsbrad, Arathi forces in the battleground were Alliance associated, with the goal of putting Alliance flags.

    Thrall already attacked numerous camps before Durnholde, I dont recall him making that offer before, since he went in undercover to inspire the orcs to revolt. And besides the orcs in Ashenvale heard somebody was there and Grom brushed it off. Thrall should have stopped the Warsong in Vanilla since it wasnt Horde land and the NE made that clear.
    Yeah but but it was an minority like arthas and most humans who were specified on books during those times enjoyed it, but most forsakens on books and whiches characters has being opened act more mercifully.

    Forcing him to march on chains to their camp and shutting him down in a cage and not giving him a glorius death in battle turning the execution a shameful death.

    Yeah they aimed but they didn't wipe them out until cata, which happened after varian declared the war. Yeah they were alliance associated with the stormwind https://wow.gamepedia.com/Field_Marshal_Oslight#Quotes "The League of Arathor has sworn to retake Arathi for humans of Stromgarde and the Alliance. It is a battle hard fought, but a battle worth fighting." League of arathot were the faction the sended the alliance players to arathi basin and they owed no loyalty to rightful monarch Galen meaning supporting rebels for your own benefit and trying force them back into the alliance meaning warmongering in both parts horde and alliance.

    That was just the first interment camp he went to were he went undercover while Orgrim was alive. He gave Durnholde keep and through blackmoore the rest and choice and blackmoore didn't take it. Also it was series of battle campaign and only first battle would be counted.

    When did they make clear to Thrall? It was a forest... hard to tell if it belongs to anyone if they don't come to say it. When did any NE say to Thrall that get out of ashenvale after NE and orcs allied?

  17. #197
    Only the Undead.

    The rest can retreat to their mud huts and peaks.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    Yeah but but it was an minority like arthas and most humans who were specified on books during those times enjoyed it, but most forsakens on books and whiches characters has being opened act more mercifully.

    Forcing him to march on chains to their camp and shutting him down in a cage and not giving him a glorius death in battle turning the execution a shameful death.

    Yeah they aimed but they didn't wipe them out until cata, which happened after varian declared the war. Yeah they were alliance associated with the stormwind https://wow.gamepedia.com/Field_Marshal_Oslight#Quotes "The League of Arathor has sworn to retake Arathi for humans of Stromgarde and the Alliance. It is a battle hard fought, but a battle worth fighting." League of arathot were the faction the sended the alliance players to arathi basin and they owed no loyalty to rightful monarch Galen meaning supporting rebels for your own benefit and trying force them back into the alliance meaning warmongering in both parts horde and alliance.

    That was just the first interment camp he went to were he went undercover while Orgrim was alive. He gave Durnholde keep and through blackmoore the rest and choice and blackmoore didn't take it. Also it was series of battle campaign and only first battle would be counted.

    When did they make clear to Thrall? It was a forest... hard to tell if it belongs to anyone if they don't come to say it. When did any NE say to Thrall that get out of ashenvale after NE and orcs allied?
    And there are many Forsaken that dont care about the living at all. They are the majority in fact given what we know of Tirisfsal questing. And most other Forsaken quests.

    Forsaken had no buisness being in Arathi, the remains of Stormguard were in the Alliance.

    Aim is more then enough, they attacked and finished the job when the blight was complete.

    It wasnt just the first, he did it numerous times, on the fourth he was detected.

    Glorius death? Seriously? He was a prisoner of war, they had every right to capture him, glorius death my ass.

    The orcs heard pople talking behind the woods and they continued chopping down woods anyway. Ashenvale had numerous NE outposts, how was it hard to tell?
    Last edited by ausoin; 2019-02-12 at 12:41 AM.

  19. #199
    didnt they try that in WC3?

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by ausoin View Post
    And there are many Forsaken that dont care about the living at all. They are the majority in fact given what we know of Tirisfsal questing. And most other Forsaken quests.

    Forsaken had no buisness being in Arathi, the remains of Stormguard were in the Alliance.

    Aim is more then enough, they attacked and finished the job when the blight was complete.

    It wasnt just the first, he did it numerous times, on the fourth he was detected.

    Glorius death? Seriously? He was a prisoner of war, they had every right to capture him, glorius death my ass.
    As such actions commited in interment camps was mostly though to good by most of human population in kingdoms.

    They were rebels as they didn't bow down to Galen Trollbane which means the legue of arathor has no place being in arathi. Stromgarde left alliance before the start of third war and Galen never returned to the alliance and he controlled small part of stromgarde city and still most of the remaining Stromgarde military.

    Aim isn't enough as it isn't an act of aggresion nor warmongering before they actually do it and if they do it during war started by other side its not regarded as warmongering.

    So? only first one is counted as warmongering.

    They had the right to kill him not humiliate and disgrace him.

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