Do you support Alliance genocide of Horde races?

[ausoin]

We have not seen any instance of growning ceremony and on the contrary as not even in every monatchy there is a growning ceremony in human history and we haven't a mentioning of a growning ceremony in azeroths human history.

Because the story started with kings who when they died most of their kingdoms died, so we never have seen some big ceremony. Anduin became king with most of the Alliance leaders in Stormwind.

As the king didn't give him any orders and thats why he can't disobey them and yes they do as arthas had the right as a prince pratically dismantle the silver hand.

Yes he did an messager was sent to Arthas that Terenas recalled his soldiers. Arthas had no right to disobey the kings orders, burn his fleet and kill and ressurect and enslave his men.

In monarchies if a nobel woman marries a peasant or a nobel woman they lose their right of succession and only if the previous monarch gives his/her the right can they succeeded them. Also as Lordaeron was dismantlet and reformed as a part of scourge and Calia never took part in the civil war.

Right but Arthas became a usurper, so Calia was the only heir, and everybody expect a select few had known about her marriage.

They are classified as stormwind npc https://youtu.be/LrQvNuoBNbI?t=564 even the guards are classified as stormwin npcs https://youtu.be/LrQvNuoBNbI?t=584 everylast one of them is classified as stormwind npcs even when they have the stromgarde tabards.

You have fought the undead, struck back against the Horde, and honored the memory of the victims of Southshore. On behalf of the kingdom of Stromgarde, I present you with an official commendation, and this reward

.

That just proves that he is still very human as humans doesn't have usualy longterm foresight for these kind of things.

Its not "longterm foresight" its just basic logic.

As it happened few months before it would as easily spread as it was a major political event in azeroth so ofcourse it will easily spread as Calia was killed during it.

Barely anybody mentions the gathering after, not the Horde or the Alliance, KT was at that time an ISOLATED ISLAND kingdom, and Zelling and his family were living in a camp, in a land overrun by cultists.

Its also really funny how you argued that Zelling family shouldnt have mistrusted the undead because they only heard they destroyed Lordareon and not seen, and as such they have no ecsxuse but in this case, Zellings family should have known everything about Arathi, and even if they werent there they should had embraced an undead person without second doubts. Double standards, once again.

[Terongor]

Because the story started with kings who when they died most of their kingdoms died, so we never have seen some big ceremony. Anduin became king with most of the Alliance leaders in Stormwind.



Yes he did an messager was sent to Arthas that Terenas recalled his soldiers. Arthas had no right to disobey the kings orders, burn his fleet and kill and ressurect and enslave his men.



Right but Arthas became a usurper, so Calia was the only heir, and everybody expect a select few had known about her marriage.


.



Its not "longterm foresight" its just basic logic.


Barely anybody mentions the gathering after, not the Horde or the Alliance, KT was at that time an ISOLATED ISLAND kingdom, and Zelling and his family were living in a camp, in a land overrun by cultists.

Its also really funny how you argued the Kul Tiras wouldn't have known the undead wiped out the largest human kingdom, but in this case, Zellings family should have known everything about Arathi, double standards, once again.

Thoras didn't die when stromgarde died, other alliance leaders wouldn't have say in it the stormwind nobel familys would have if we go by that and to our knowledge not one representitive of the nobels was there..

He ordered the captain https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dissension_(WC3_Human) who was either falric or marvyn also arthas was welcomed home as heroes which means Terenas forgave his "crimes"

so? you are linking cataclysm quest text https://wow.gamepedia.com/For_Southshore (added in 4.0.3a) and then Galen was already dead then.

Its not as humans act extremely stupid while under extreme emotions and your own child treating you like that would cause it.

They still knew about the fall of theramore and death calia is a major thing.

Sorry I mispoke then didn't think about it true but you claimed yourself that Daelin was in Lordaeron searching for survivors and didn't admit you were wrong as the dialogue in TFT which I linked provd you wrong.

[PaladinBash]

Orcs and Forsaken, absolutely. It is the one and only way to fix the problem. Trolls and Goblins I'd be happy with it but not to the extent of Orcs or Forsaken. Tauren and Blood Elves I wouldn't recommend it but I'd be okay with it. Pandas and random allied races are kinda just there so I'm not really too concerned about them either way. If it was a choice of all of them or none, I'd definitely say all.

Orcs and Forsaken should be exterminated. They should already have been and twice now the Humans have softcocked it with the Orcs in particular when they had the chance. That would have made finishing off the Forsaken easy and the submission of the others inevitable. I don't think the Tauren or Blood Elves actually WANT any of the trouble the Horde makes and the Trolls and Goblins are just troublemakers that get into as much shit as they can and would never dare start any actual wars with a unified and unopposed Alliance world power.

[Trassk]

Playing the alliance campaign, it's hilarious the level of hypocrisy the alliance and their bias narrow minded fans has.
All the regards of the horde being the murdering bastard types, yet the alliance really are no better in this campaign.

They just pretend their factions somehow the good side, so even if those killing none combatant civilians on the horde side, they can justify themselves.

Also doing the campaign, the belief that sylvanas and the forsaken using necromancy to it's advantage gave the alliance some moral standing over the horde, and yet seeing void elves throwing about void magic without a care is somehow okay, despite it very obviously being tied to the old gods are void lords.

So yeah, the horde has done some shit things in this, but the alliance has now muddied the water in their own way. There is no moral justification the alliance can have now that gives them the freedom to end the horde, anymore then the horde does to the alliance.

It's about time people grew up from these playground levels of self moralising. You all suck, deal with it.

[Bigby]

I for one do.

Yes, this may seem counterintuitive, considering I am a Horde player, but consider this from a storytelling perspective. The Alliance will stop feeling impotent and will enact actual retribution for the years of Horde aggression, while the Horde will actually fight for a decent cause - staying alive.

So I am all for the Alliance exterminating the orcs and the Forsaken, and their allies as well. Enough with this peace-loving bull, give me the final solution to the Horde question.

Genocide? No, but the Horde - as Jaina puts it - needs to be completely dismantled and demilitarised. The problem with the Horde is when they get too big for their boots and think they can have another crack at the Alliance. Obviously the more extremist elements need putting to the sword, but they don't tend to hide their desire to slaughter Alliance peoples.

The Blood Elves would happily cut all ties with the Horde as soon as they realised it was doing them no good. So long as they were assured they'd not be bothered in Quel'thalas it's not as if they'd try anything. Their only loyalty is to themselves. Nightborne would more than likely be the same.

The Tauren that aren't the Grimtotem have no love of war (b-but muh taurajo). They'd be content with their slice of Kalimdor pie. Highmountain would similarly just go back to the Broken Isles.

The Bilgewater Cartel won't see much profit in being wiped out for staunch loyalty to a defeated Horde.

The Darkspear are pretty much a non-factor since their numbers would be so insignificant that they can't do anything without support from the rest of the Horde anyway. They go back to the Echo Isles or they rally to the Orcs and go guerrilla for their troubles.

The more 'honourable' Orcs would probably bring the more benevolent Orcs to heel, whilst the warmongers run off to try and continue a war. The Alliance can isolate and eliminate 'em from there.

The Forsaken are going to be the biggest problem. Before the Storm shows that Forsaken society largely seems to exist as a personality cult revolving around believing what Sylvanas says and that when she's gone, the brainwashing starts to fade away and they're able to think for themselves. Remove Sylvanas and chances are a good deal of the Forsaken would come around to the idea that, actually, the world only hates them because of what Sylvanas has been encouraging them to do to the living for nigh-on a decade.

[ausoin]

Thoras didn't die when stromgarde died, other alliance leaders wouldn't have say in it the stormwind nobel familys would have if we go by that and to our knowledge not one representitive of the nobels was there..

Shortly after Thoras death, most of Stormguard fell apart, and we never had any detailed Stormguard story so we cant assume that Galen didn't have some kind of a ceremony.

He ordered the captain https://wow.gamepedia.com/Dissension_(WC3_Human) who was either falric or marvyn also arthas was welcomed home as heroes which means Terenas forgave his "crimes"

And Arthas having being told by the captain, secretly hired mercenaries and destroyed the ships before his men arrived, and when they did he lied that the mercenaries were the ones to do it and he had nothing to do with it.

so? you are linking cataclysm quest text https://wow.gamepedia.com/For_Southshore (added in 4.0.3a) and then Galen was already dead then.

Yeah didn't see its a Cata quest, but regardless Galen was not against the Alliance, one of his lieutenants was not hostile to the Alliance.

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=2612/lie...alorcall#drops

Its not as humans act extremely stupid while under extreme emotions and your own child treating you like that would cause it.

No it isnt, I dont know what kind of people you met but no it isnt.

They still knew about the fall of theramore and death calia is a major thing.

Yeah because the sailors returned to tell the story, which happened years ago, Zelling family fell on hard times recently and were living in a camp, and since they are living in a isolated kingdom they couldn't have heard of Calia or Arathi meeting.

Sorry I mispoke then didn't think about it true but you claimed yourself that Daelin was in Lordaeron searching for survivors and didn't admit you were wrong as the dialogue in TFT which I linked provd you wrong.

You didnt prove me wrong, I linked you before already

He was crushed and horrified to hear the news that Lordaeron was destroyed by the demonic invasion. When he searched Lordaeron for survivors, he found nothing but legions of undead and demons, and few survivors.[19]

[Terongor]

Shortly after Thoras death, most of Stormguard fell apart, and we never had any detailed Stormguard story so we cant assume that Galen didn't have some kind of a ceremony.



And Arthas having being told by the captain, secretly hired mercenaries and destroyed the ships before his men arrived, and when they did he lied that the mercenaries were the ones to do it and he had nothing to do with it.



Yeah didn't see its a Cata quest, but regardless Galen was not against the Alliance, one of his lieutenants was not hostile to the Alliance.





No it isnt, I dont know what kind of people you met but no it isnt.



Yeah because the sailors returned to tell the story, which happened years ago, Zelling family fell on hard times recently and were living in a camp, and since they are living in a isolated kingdom they couldn't have heard of Calia or Arathi meeting.



You didnt prove me wrong, I linked you before already

Well we have never seen mentioned any crowning ceremony in wow and not all monarchies in irl history had a crowning ceremony so its still reading too far that in azeroth they had when we have no reference for it.

As they had even in vanilla reading that they were stormwind npces and they only had military titles, so their titiles don't tell much.
Also the link you provided reads "Faction: Stormwind"

There is alot of times when even a monarch has killed his son in a sudden outrage for disrespecting their titles like few chinese emperors did to their many sons, so it is normal.

He was a tidesage which was for a long time a very respectable position and its was never stated they fell on hard times and he still receibed knowledge from the sea so he could have easily told about it to his family

that reference 19 is a in game book called old hatred's and everything they said about Daelin was "The peace between the orcs and humans was shattered by the arrival of a massive Alliance fleet in Kalimdor. The mighty fleet, under the command of Grand Admiral Daelin Proudmoore (Jaina's father), had left Lordaeron before Arthas had destroyed the kingdom. Having sailed for many grueling months, Admiral Proudmoore was searching for any Alliance survivors he could find.

Proudmoore's armada posed a serious threat to the stability of the region. As a renowned hero of the Second War, Jaina's father was a staunch enemy of the Horde, and he was determined to destroy Durotar before the orcs could gain a foothold in the land.

The Grand Admiral forced Jaina to make a terrible decision: support him in battle against the orcs and betray her newfound allies, or fight her own father to maintain the fragile peace that the Alliance and the Horde had finally attained. After much soul-searching, Jaina chose the latter and helped Thrall defeat her crazed father. Unfortunately Admiral Proudmoore died in battle before Jaina could reconcile with him or prove that orcs were no longer bloodthirsty monsters. For her loyalty, the orcs allowed Jaina's forces to return home safely to Theramore."

Arthas "destroyed" the kingdom before marching to silvermoon and Daelin left it before lordaeron was destroyed meaning siege of dalarn hadn't happened yet its not even here stated that he searched for Jaina in lordaeron. You said really read the what they are referencing before using it as an argument.

[ausoin]

Well we have never seen mentioned any crowning ceremony in wow and not all monarchies in irl history had a crowning ceremony so its still reading too far that in azeroth they had when we have no reference for it.

As they had even in vanilla reading that they were stormwind npces and they only had military titles, so their titiles don't tell much.
Also the link you provided reads "Faction: Stormwind"

There is alot of times when even a monarch has killed his son in a sudden outrage for disrespecting their titles like few chinese emperors did to their many sons, so it is normal.

He was a tidesage which was for a long time a very respectable position and its was never stated they fell on hard times and he still receibed knowledge from the sea so he could have easily told about it to his family

that reference 19 is a in game book called old hatred's and everything they said about Daelin was "The peace between the orcs and humans was shattered by the arrival of a massive Alliance fleet in Kalimdor. The mighty fleet, under the command of Grand Admiral Daelin Proudmoore (Jaina's father), had left Lordaeron before Arthas had destroyed the kingdom. Having sailed for many grueling months, Admiral Proudmoore was searching for any Alliance survivors he could find.

Proudmoore's armada posed a serious threat to the stability of the region. As a renowned hero of the Second War, Jaina's father was a staunch enemy of the Horde, and he was determined to destroy Durotar before the orcs could gain a foothold in the land.

The Grand Admiral forced Jaina to make a terrible decision: support him in battle against the orcs and betray her newfound allies, or fight her own father to maintain the fragile peace that the Alliance and the Horde had finally attained. After much soul-searching, Jaina chose the latter and helped Thrall defeat her crazed father. Unfortunately Admiral Proudmoore died in battle before Jaina could reconcile with him or prove that orcs were no longer bloodthirsty monsters. For her loyalty, the orcs allowed Jaina's forces to return home safely to Theramore."

Arthas "destroyed" the kingdom before marching to silvermoon and Daelin left it before lordaeron was destroyed meaning siege of dalarn hadn't happened yet its not even here stated that he searched for Jaina in lordaeron. You said really read the what they are referencing before using it as an argument.

I should have worded it diffriently, but it all comes back to the point Arthas claim to the the throne dissapeared the second he killed his king and sacked the city.

According to Galen he was his cav commander.

Monarch killing heirs? We are talking about the heirs killing monarchs.

They are living in a camp with no money, that why Zelling joined the Horde to support his family, who bought a house in Drustvar.

Seeing that the meeting is barely spoken by anyone its unlikely Zelling would have heard about it.

Yes it doesnt say that exactly, my mistake, but the point remains the same, the KT knew about the Scourge and that they destroyed Lordareon. So common Kul Tirans had every right to be afraid of the undead, I dont know why to you they have no excuse to be weary of the undead.

[Terongor]

I should have worded it diffriently, but it all comes back to the point Arthas claim to the the throne dissapeared the second he killed his king and sacked the city.

According to Galen he was his cav commander.

Monarch killing heirs? We are talking about the heirs killing monarchs.

They are living in a camp with no money, that why Zelling joined the Horde to support his family, who bought a house in Drustvar.

Seeimg that the meeting is barely spoken by anyone its unlikely Zelling would have heard about it.

Yes it doesnt say that exactly, my mistake, but the point remains the same, the KT knew about the Scourge and that they destroyed Lordareon. So common Kul Tirans had every right to be afraid of the undead, I dont know why to you they have no excuse to be weary of the undead.

Dissapearing chronicles 3 stated that he and the scourge forced sacked the capital city after he killed his father slaughtering everone in and raising them as undeads and continued to lead the scourge.

Galen said it during cata and you linked a cata mob a and he also said that he barely escaped after Galens death and what would be the logical place for him to join after? the remaining humans in area.

It was about sons and father and how son could be killed by the father little disrespecting him so it the reaction of Zaeling was too controlled.

Well yeah it isn't spoken barely by anyone, as it probably the gameplay limitations but it was still a major event which caused Calia death and the news of her death probably spread pretty fast. Well as the gameplay is limited and I have way to prove without strecthing the truth I admit defeat on this part, but can atleast admit if it was a normal world and wasn't limited by gameplay it would have probably spread.

As the rumors stated the scourge undeads would be still mindless and they still would have rumors of the forsakens and that they they were free of LKs control.

[rowaasr13]

If you want to devalue such suffering and continue with your fake outrage, be my guest I can't stop you all I can do is telling you, your entire argumentation in that case is a joke and isn't helping at all, quite the contrary.

I want to stop you from flaunting your "privilege" that you try to use to shut up others.

Trying to teach someone a lesson and actually teaching a lesson are two different things. They believe they are teaching a big important lesson, all they are doing is showing a clown show.

Yeah, it seems the lesson is not understood to some people. Well, as I already said, enjoy your beating from the devs.

[Verdugo]

Yeah, it seems the lesson is not understood to some people. Well, as I already said, enjoy your beating from the devs.

There is no lesson to be had, just some vapid brainfarts coming from some talentless loathsome cunts that get paid a lot for this crap.

[Eggroll]

Just so we are clear: yes, I do!! For Teldrassil! Slaughter them all!

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

We should. There should be no moral high ground here, or at least not a big difference between both.

[Zandalariprelate]

We should. There should be no moral high ground here, or at least not a big difference between both.

I fully agree

[gurutikka]

If you want to see an actual genocide of horde races, the alliance would need someone like Othmar Garithos leading them.

NOT a Pacifist baby twinkle toes like Anduin.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

If you want to see an actual genocide of horde races, the alliance would need someone like Othmar Garithos leading them.

NOT a Pacifist baby twinkle toes like Anduin.

Where do I sign for having some asshole in charge? I really want to have a story going that way, Anduin can't get killed soon enough.

[mickybrighteyes]

If you want to see an actual genocide of horde races, the alliance would need someone like Othmar Garithos leading them.

NOT a Pacifist baby twinkle toes like Anduin.

anduin doesn't really 'lead'... he's more like Jimminy Cricket telling them what they should do as they blatantly ignore him for the large part.

[Evilfish]

anduin doesn't really 'lead'... he's more like Jimminy Cricket telling them what they should do as they blatantly ignore him for the large part.

If that were true the Alliance would be a lot more interesting and Golden would have rage quit.

But Anduin might as well have a cult following at this point, his first disciple being a Horde leader.

[mickybrighteyes]

If that were true the Alliance would be a lot more interesting and Golden would have rage quit.

But Anduin might as well have a cult following at this point, his first disciple being a Horde leader.

well amidst every leader fawning over him he doesn't really handle their disobedience and ratehr than 'command' he mostly seems to 'suggest' how they should proceed

[Eggroll]

well amidst every leader fawning over him he doesn't really handle their disobedience and ratehr than 'command' he mostly seems to 'suggest' how they should proceed

I must say though, his charactization seems really far fetched, given his experience.

Lost his mother early in political riots, his father went MIA for years and he had to fill the role of king for that time, including the Onyxia stuff, the stuff in Ironforge, facing Garrosh, seeing his father die and ressurect him, losing his father on the Broken Shore. It's not like he was completely unprepared for filling the role of king, and its kinda unlikely that someone who grows up to be the sole heir of the throne would not be educated to take over the throne if need be. Especially since he's no longer a child.

His characterization is ridiculous imo. It feels like they pulled it out of thin air, disregarding his entire life's history.