Warriors never bad but never good

[Gaidax]

Warriors never good kekw




Of all melee Warriors are about the most stable and usually by last patch are also most powerful of all or at least up there at the top with at least one spec.

[bullseyed]

As I've sat here for half an hour being declined by every m+ group even though I have more than enough experience, I find myself thinking about warriors. I've only played one since cata but in my personal view, and it might be very wrong, that warrs are never great. If memory serves me well, they're usually not bad, but have they ever been a class you actually want to see? We bring nothing of real value that other classes bring.

While I'm ranting about warrs, it also seems like other classes, those that always seem to be good, locks and rogues etc, are always allowed to stay at the top, and whenever warriors look like they might be worth considering, Blizzard descends on them because no fun is allowed.

And currently:

- Classic WoW:
-- Best Tank - Warrior
-- Best DPS - Warrior

- Retail WoW:
-- Best M+ Tank - Warrior
-- Top Raid Melee DPS - Warrior
-- #2 Raid Melee DPS - Other Warrior

[Jastall]

Well, there was no N'Zoth by the time I wrote that post. Arms is good now since 8.3 launched. Because it scales very good (probably a little too good) with the current ToM+Lucid+Anger Management setup. The gap between ToM window and the next CS window is getting shorter every day as you get better gear especially more haste. During Heroism and/or Execute these 2 windows actually overlap. So your execute can have both 30% CS AND nearly 100% ToM buff same time. Which are multiplicative buffs. Then it hits like 90k non-crit.

Mastery scaling (among other things) also makes it killer in M+ with Cleave. Arms is very, very stronk right now.

I'm still playing Fury as I find it much more enjoyable. Other Warrior in my guild has switched if only to test and says it plays better than in Uldir thanks to Lucid Dreams and vastly better Haste, so I might give it a spin at some point still.

[LazyCoding]

Mastery scaling (among other things) also makes it killer in M+ with Cleave. Arms is very, very stronk right now.

I'm still playing Fury as I find it much more enjoyable. Other Warrior in my guild has switched if only to test and says it plays better than in Uldir thanks to Lucid Dreams and vastly better Haste, so I might give it a spin at some point still.

Cleave is not easy to make it work. It requires a certain pulling strategy. Meaning the tank must be aware of your talent choice.
If it is low and/or tyranical key mobs don't live long for DW to do damage. If it is high fortified key then the tank often pulls less than 3 mobs.
I have tried Cleave few times in pugs and barely pressed it Most of time either my BS is up or there are less than 3 mobs.

[Kalisandra]

They gutted windfury and sword spec. Then they introduced Stormherald. Stormherald would proc like a 3 second stun but they didn't gut mace specialization, which stacked with the stun. So all through TBC warriors dominated again. Then they introduced Bladestorm and beastcleave came.

In the day, Bladestorm and Cleave stacked. Add in having Shadowmourne and hilarity ensued, followed by a solid whack with the nerf bat.

[Polarthief]

As I've sat here for half an hour being declined by every m+ group even though I have more than enough experience, I find myself thinking about warriors. I've only played one since cata but in my personal view, and it might be very wrong, that warrs are never great. If memory serves me well, they're usually not bad, but have they ever been a class you actually want to see? We bring nothing of real value that other classes bring.

Play tank. Warrior Tanks haven't been bad by any means this expansion.

Or hell just improve your IO because you could definitely do worse than Fury: 5th most taken DPS, 3rd most taken melee (behind Outlaw and Havoc which are both outliers anyway).

Also you're definitely wrong about "wars are never great". They are top in both tank and DPS in Classic and they've rarely ever been a bad class for both roles. At worst, they're middle of the pack at times, but never have all 3 specs been bottom IIRC.

While I'm ranting about warrs, it also seems like other classes, those that always seem to be good, locks and rogues etc, are always allowed to stay at the top, and whenever warriors look like they might be worth considering, Blizzard descends on them because no fun is allowed.

Rogues? Yeah, but we're also a pure. Pures are generally good. Warlocks however, nah they fluctuate like crazy, and right now, they're a mediocre M+ class.

I'm gonna chalk this up to "My IO is bad and I'm sad I'm not accepted to groups so I'm just gonna assume it's my class" syndrome. It's okay, it happened to me too in Season 1, then I stopped complaining and boosted my IO. Now I'm accepted to pretty much every group I click.

[Beet]

As I've sat here for half an hour being declined by every m+ group even though I have more than enough experience, I find myself thinking about warriors. I've only played one since cata but in my personal view, and it might be very wrong, that warrs are never great. If memory serves me well, they're usually not bad, but have they ever been a class you actually want to see? We bring nothing of real value that other classes bring.

While I'm ranting about warrs, it also seems like other classes, those that always seem to be good, locks and rogues etc, are always allowed to stay at the top, and whenever warriors look like they might be worth considering, Blizzard descends on them because no fun is allowed.

Heh this thread shocked me until I read your post. You said you didn’t start until Cata which is funny because that was the final expansion where warriors were great. In vanilla, TBC, and wrath though they were gods among men. The true reason they started to go down though was all the nerfs to how they play. Originally with the way rage was designed we started slow in an expansion but then became fucking machines. Heroic strike was an ability that helped with this.

There used to be two things you could count on. Warriors were always godly and hunters would never be top dogs. I haven’t played hardcore the last two expansions but my guess is the later is still a fact.

[LedZeppelin]

warriors used to be ass at the beginning of expansions but then become gods by the end game. in pvp they would get more rage (in tbc i think) if they had more armor pen so with each arena season they would get a little bit more and that does add up over time. these days usually its one spec (out of all) that are bad, not an entire class.

[Alvito]

Warriors never good kekw




Of all melee Warriors are about the most stable and usually by last patch are also most powerful of all or at least up there at the top with at least one spec.

While I agree that warriors are often good and right now are strong choices, using the total of all the fights to show what is strong is a bad option. There are plenty of times that a spec can cheese 1 fight and it blows those numbers out of the water or you get classes sand bagging numbers putting damage into things that don't need to die or aren't really taking damage.

- - - Updated - - -

As I've sat here for half an hour being declined by every m+ group even though I have more than enough experience, I find myself thinking about warriors. I've only played one since cata but in my personal view, and it might be very wrong, that warrs are never great. If memory serves me well, they're usually not bad, but have they ever been a class you actually want to see? We bring nothing of real value that other classes bring.

While I'm ranting about warrs, it also seems like other classes, those that always seem to be good, locks and rogues etc, are always allowed to stay at the top, and whenever warriors look like they might be worth considering, Blizzard descends on them because no fun is allowed.

For mythic plus there are better dps options depending on what you are trying to do. You are also assuming you are being declined based on your class alone, depending one what ppl are running they might want a certain buff, armor type, cc, or dozens of other things, maybe they already have a warrior in the group and don't want 2 who knows. If you play Alliance it is also significantly harder to find groups since you have less people doing them above 10. I have freequently been declined from groups with a 2k+ IO score on characters that are mythic raid geared and are strong in mythic plus, it happens to all of us. If you don't want to wait make your own group or join one just forming. Almost every server has it's own discord, there are plenty of mythic + discords, find ppl and run with them. If you leave it up to random ppl to randomly pick somebody you could be stuck waiting forever. Do well in keys and ppl will keep asking you to run with them.

- - - Updated - - -

Play tank. Warrior Tanks haven't been bad by any means this expansion.

Or hell just improve your IO because you could definitely do worse than Fury: 5th most taken DPS, 3rd most taken melee (behind Outlaw and Havoc which are both outliers anyway).

Also you're definitely wrong about "wars are never great". They are top in both tank and DPS in Classic and they've rarely ever been a bad class for both roles. At worst, they're middle of the pack at times, but never have all 3 specs been bottom IIRC.



Rogues? Yeah, but we're also a pure. Pures are generally good. Warlocks however, nah they fluctuate like crazy, and right now, they're a mediocre M+ class.

I'm gonna chalk this up to "My IO is bad and I'm sad I'm not accepted to groups so I'm just gonna assume it's my class" syndrome. It's okay, it happened to me too in Season 1, then I stopped complaining and boosted my IO. Now I'm accepted to pretty much every group I click.

If they are upset about not getting into groups I doubt the 20+ brackets numbers apply to them.

[OokOok]

While I agree that warriors are often good and right now are strong choices, using the total of all the fights to show what is strong is a bad option. There are plenty of times that a spec can cheese 1 fight and it blows those numbers out of the water or you get classes sand bagging numbers putting damage into things that don't need to die or aren't really taking damage.

- - - Updated - - -



For mythic plus there are better dps options depending on what you are trying to do. You are also assuming you are being declined based on your class alone, depending one what ppl are running they might want a certain buff, armor type, cc, or dozens of other things, maybe they already have a warrior in the group and don't want 2 who knows. If you play Alliance it is also significantly harder to find groups since you have less people doing them above 10. I have freequently been declined from groups with a 2k+ IO score on characters that are mythic raid geared and are strong in mythic plus, it happens to all of us. If you don't want to wait make your own group or join one just forming. Almost every server has it's own discord, there are plenty of mythic + discords, find ppl and run with them. If you leave it up to random ppl to randomly pick somebody you could be stuck waiting forever. Do well in keys and ppl will keep asking you to run with them.

- - - Updated - - -



If they are upset about not getting into groups I doubt the 20+ brackets numbers apply to them.

What are you talking about, if he's not getting M+ invites it's 100% because he's a warrior. Warrior has little to none self sustaining healing, especially if you're playing Arms, 1 DCD, mobility when HL is off cooldown,and a group buff that you can just buy off the AH. Which means the only reason you'd bring a warrior is their damage, so why would you bring a warrior who's going to bring say 50K dps and nothing else, and probably die a bunch when you could bring a DH who's going to do 50k dps, AOE stun, AOE DCD, best mobility in the game, Self sustaining healing, and a magic buff for casters. OR a rogue who has an AOE shroud, great mobility, stuns, amazing survivability.

It's pretty logical, it's not the player, it's the class. Blizzard always says "bring the player not the class" and then they design garbage like M+ where it's literally Class > player.
You want DPS warriors to be useful in M+? give them shockwave back. Done

[Yarou]

What do u think about the current changes of warrior fury? I only mained warrior this expansion so idk how was his status and play style in other exp's but i feel like new pruned skill added are a non-sense mix of tank and dps skills.

How is supposed to work Ignore Pain, Shield Block, Shield Slam with fury if we dont have a shield?? Have we got to make macros to equip the shield and use the hability?

About new specific fury skills and talents, what do u think?

Fervor of Battle is a new Talent, where the Warrior loses themselves to their bloodthirst during Whirlwind and also Slams their primary target and gains additional Rage. Warriors will also be able to learn Onslaught, in which an Enraged Warrior brutally attacks an enemy for a large amount of damage and generates some Rage.

Frothing Berserker has been reimagined—now, when the Warrior reaches 100 Rage, they gain Haste and movement speed over a few seconds. Wrecking Ball returns as a Talent, which gives the Warrior a moderate chance for their next Whirlwind to deal a devastating amount of damage. Fresh Meat now causes Bloodthirst to always Enrage you the first time you strike a target with Bloodthirst.


About the talents tree i got these feelings:

1st row the go to in single targent with low gear will be inner rage to get more rage asap and lil extra dps. In all other situations specially aoe sudden death.

2nd row the same as bfa.

3rd row for single target when we're low haste furius slash and in all other situations massacre.

4th row same as bfa.

5th row this is the most insteresting row of talents, all are new for me, and idk how they will perform in SL. Seems fervor of battle will be the best talent in aoe situation and for single depending of our amount of haste will be onslaught or frothing berserker. TBH i reach 100 rage with my warrior in rly few situations (most with cd active).

In overall i see rly low changes in the spec for a new expansion and seems that blizz focused to improve our single target rotation adding more skills and to improve whirlwind dmg for aoe

6th row we got a new talents. I feel that whirlwind overall damage is pretty low in dungeons and even lower in raid or pvp so i guess this new talent wont work at all. Also blizz says they want to nerf passive/proc talents. Also in early expansion when our haste is low and we need more time to reach enrage, this talent will be worse than the others. Seems that dragon roar will be the go to talent in most situations.

7th row same as bfa.

Overall i see rly phew changes in fury for the enxt expansion. Seems blizz focused on a more skilled single target rotation adding new skill, and for aoe whirlwind will be more value

[Lucavian]

While I agree that warriors are often good and right now are strong choices, using the total of all the fights to show what is strong is a bad option. There are plenty of times that a spec can cheese 1 fight and it blows those numbers out of the water or you get classes sand bagging numbers putting damage into things that don't need to die or aren't really taking damage.

Nah mate, warcraftlogs uses an aggregate system where shit like lolAOElol on scorpyron's adds in Nighthold didn't make you beastmode dps. It doesn't count a lot of that stuff.

[Lethius]

As I've sat here for half an hour being declined by every m+ group even though I have more than enough experience, I find myself thinking about warriors. I've only played one since cata but in my personal view, and it might be very wrong, that warrs are never great. If memory serves me well, they're usually not bad, but have they ever been a class you actually want to see? We bring nothing of real value that other classes bring.

While I'm ranting about warrs, it also seems like other classes, those that always seem to be good, locks and rogues etc, are always allowed to stay at the top, and whenever warriors look like they might be worth considering, Blizzard descends on them because no fun is allowed.

I play a warrior and to a degree I do feel your pain - on M+ Fury and Arms don't tend to be very popular because beyond pure dps they offer nothing, but warriors can tank... Whilst I don't really like tanking myself I find it hard to feel to sorry for myself when if I chose to I have a spec which will mean almost no wait to get into a M+.

As for being at the 'top', in raiding right now warriors are doing very well. Maybe not 'the' top spec, but they're right up there. Arms is well and truely back (despite being a bit of a glass cannon!) after a torrid time for a couple of patches and Fury is still very strong.

[nocturnus]

In all honesty warriors are pretty damn bad atm.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st.../24#dataset=90

Yep. Warriors are horrible. They're only the best tank in almost every scenario and the best melee dps. Clearly not enough.

[Dommie530]

Well, fury warrior and protection warriors are both pretty good. The sad reality with mediocre utilization classes is when you queue, but someone els has even 1 item level more, they will 90% of the time be taken over you because you dont have that special abbilty, like multiple stuns, providing dmg buffs( loved the banners warrior gave few years back) Hybrid skills, bloodlust and so on.

[Zeusy]

I don't do like 17+ but I have no issue getting into anything under a 16 on my warrior...

Is your IO lacking or something? I got instant invited today to 14s and heroic raid