is BM really this shit?

[Daan]

There is no really complex spec in the game anymore, but I would say Feral is one of the "not that easy to master" specs.

BM rota itself needs more skill than DH, but I agree that BM is the most mobile spec ingame, while DH has the "downside" of being melee.

[Vampyrr]

Looks worse than it is the DPS difference is between 1-3k of the majority of specs. The top 3 its a 4-5k difference. This is going to very with skill level gear level and knowledge of fights. Dont doom and gloom it too hard. No one is really going to care about 1-5k difference

[khazlol]

Assassin rogues are doing well, but are probably just as easy to play.

not sure the difficulty argument holds any water :P

[TOM_RUS]

Not being ranged
Not being ranged

Any melee are by far easier to play than ranged, because you pretty much can ignore all mechanics and tunnel vision the boss. So your argument is invalid.

DH is also pretty easy. However they still need to dodge mechanics to stay close to the boss as a melee.

And BM doesn't have to dodge mechanics or be in range of the boss to do DPS or what? Basically another invalid point.

[Freshouttajail]

and people who wanted to mess around. try to make weird and unique things. stuff like shockadin came from that freedom.

it is a lesser man that does not mourn the loss of freedoms, simply because he never excised them......

Huh, have you played shockadin? I did. It was shit. Fun fact, you can do it better now. /gasp

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What, that's not what I'm asking for at all. How fucking dense are you? My dispute with you is you saying "BM is good enough" and holding up the example of Gingi like that proves your point. I'm telling you that argument is stupid when you consider the context and that no, BM is NOT good enough on the fights that count. Maybe when your whole raid team is world first and everyone else is at 400 ilevel still when you reach the last boss, sure. But that applies to like 3 guilds in the world, maybe. So using that as your evidence is just fucking stupid.

You just want Blizzard to buff your class but you're happy when others are lower than yours. Just say it and move on.

[Kuja]

I wish BM would be as good as it was in TBC. Use a gorilla pet, and it could alone outdps everyone else in the group most likely, and be tanky as fuck.

[Kaver]

Any melee are by far easier to play than ranged, because you pretty much can ignore all mechanics and tunnel vision the boss. So your argument is invalid.



And BM doesn't have to dodge mechanics or be in range of the boss to do DPS or what? Basically another invalid point.

You cant put BM in the same box as caster specs. BM is ranged but has non of the disadvantages that other ranged specs have.

BM funtion just like a melee but with ranged attacks. The difference between melees and BM is that BM can stand wherever they want. They are not restricted to be in the hitbox of the boss / mobs. It can never be a disadvantages to not be restricted to be in melee range. BM can opposite to melee choose if they want to be 2 yards from the boss or 30 yards from the boss. You dont have to be very intelligent to see that it is an advantage.

Therefore BM is by far the easiest spec in the game. It is only fair that it has the lowest dps cap in the game.

[Monster Hunter]

Huh, have you played shockadin? I did. It was shit. Fun fact, you can do it better now. /gasp

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You just want Blizzard to buff your class but you're happy when others are lower than yours. Just say it and move on.

I did, it was top meme and fun. Belive it or not there were people who just played what they wanted for fun. They lost that and no one gained anything in exchange for it.

Only thing that happened from the talent change was a group of people lost something fun for no benifit to any one else.

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Not being ranged
Not being ranged
Not as mobile because of cast time abilities

Many people call BM “a ranged melee” because it is definitely not a caster. Havoc and Fury are also very easy, but what gives BM the leas is the ranged abilities. There are no downsides to BM. No compromises. BM got the instant attacks of a melee but the freedom of a ranged.

That's mechanic dependant not spec dependant, bm has dog shit target swapping due to pet ai. What makes the spec easier at there core, no corner cases no, extenuating circumstance, no excuses, just the spec and it's abilitys.

[Freshouttajail]

I did, it was top meme and fun. Belive it or not there were people who just played what they wanted for fun. They lost that and no one gained anything in exchange for it.

Only thing that happened from the talent change was a group of people lost something fun for no benifit to any one else.

What you mean no one gained anything? Because of people who did this for fun it inspired Blizzard to make real skills for Holy paladins today.

Stop comparing the 2 versions of talent trees. See both of them for the shit they both are compared to good talent systems that exist out there, play other games.

[Monster Hunter]

Assassin rogues are doing well, but are probably just as easy to play.

not sure the difficulty argument holds any water :P

The difficulty argument has been in a drought since wod released.

[Argorwal]

Which spec "should" be last?

How large should the gap be between #1 and #24 and how do you measure it?

[Monster Hunter]

What you mean no one gained anything? Because of people who did this for fun it inspired Blizzard to make real skills for Holy paladins today.

Stop comparing the 2 versions of talent trees. See both of them for the shit they both are compared to good talent systems that exist out there, play other games.

And what's gonna inspire new thing today?

The game is fucking void of new ideas and creativity. Partly because no one has the freedom to do anything original.

There was a community of players, I was one, the liked throwing together odd sub optimal builds and specs and having lulz in pvp with them.

We lost something we found fun, and got nothing of value in return.

[Freshouttajail]

And what's gonna inspire new thing today?

The game is fucking void of new ideas and creativity. Partly because no one has the freedom to do anything original.

There was a community of players, I was one, the liked throwing together odd sub optimal builds and specs and having lulz in pvp with them.

We lost something we found fun, and got nothing of value in return.

Like, seriously what was original back then? Anything that wasn't cookie cutter? There's cookie cutter builds today, I can pick something else, does that make me original? No. So why do you consider THE SAME PROCESS to be original back in the day? You only think it was because it was the fight time you saw it. But in the end it was just clicking on a talent that was less used by the masses. That's not being original. Not to mention these builds all sucked, people figured out what was better and the other builds were just weaker.
No. Fucking. Difference.
You were manipulated by Blizzard fake sense of creativity in a boring talent system. D2 did it better.

[Kaver]

I did, it was top meme and fun. Belive it or not there were people who just played what they wanted for fun. They lost that and no one gained anything in exchange for it.

Only thing that happened from the talent change was a group of people lost something fun for no benifit to any one else.

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That's mechanic dependant not spec dependant, bm has dog shit target swapping due to pet ai. What makes the spec easier at there core, no corner cases no, extenuating circumstance, no excuses, just the spec and it's abilitys.

BM has all the advantages that melee has while still being ranged. That is an advantage no matter what mechanic you look at.

When you have a large part of AI in your spec you will also have to accept a lower performance.

[Lodvampire]

You cant put BM in the same box as caster specs. BM is ranged but has non of the disadvantages that other ranged specs have.

BM funtion just like a melee but with ranged attacks. The difference between melees and BM is that BM can stand wherever they want. They are not restricted to be in the hitbox of the boss / mobs. It can never be a disadvantages to not be restricted to be in melee range. BM can opposite to melee choose if they want to be 2 yards from the boss or 30 yards from the boss. You dont have to be very intelligent to see that it is an advantage.

Therefore BM is by far the easiest spec in the game. It is only fair that it has the lowest dps cap in the game.

Maybe if all of the pets attacks (kill command included) has a 100% chance to land, but sometimes ( a lot of times) pet got stuck in somewhere. And another point: As a ranged class, you cannot always chose to stay 2 yd from boss because some mechanics pick ranged class and you don't want to drop bad stuff near tank and other mele ones.

Every ranged class got instant cast, they need to choose when is safe to cast the bigger hit ones, hunters hardest is suppose to be Kill comand, which don't hit no even close hard to any other classes with same gear, the choice hunters need to do is to cast KC as much is possible in the burst windows, if you assing to do a mechanic that puts you more than 40 yd, you will not be able to cast KC, so you don't burst this time, or RNG mechanics, like those bombs in mekatork, which of course, happens to all other classes.

We are talking only about PvE content here, on the PvP side, other ranged classes can put a dot on enemys, LoS and continue to do damage, sure some dots can be dispell, but hunter pets can be snared, stuned or killed, and when you try to ress then, you can be interrupt too.

So BM hunter have the same problems all classes has, this shows that we don't deserve to be last in all type of content

[Monster Hunter]

Like, seriously what was original back then? Anything that wasn't cookie cutter? There's cookie cutter builds today, I can pick something else, does that make me original? No. So why do you consider THE SAME PROCESS to be original back in the day? You only think it was because it was the fight time you saw it. But in the end it was just clicking on a talent that was less used by the masses. That's not being original. Not to mention these builds all sucked, people figured out what was better and the other builds were just weaker.
No. Fucking. Difference.
You were manipulated by Blizzard fake sense of creativity in a boring talent system. D2 did it better.

Reckoning bomb pala, pom pyro mage, smite priest, imp gun warlock, hemo rouges....... The list of fun meme specs from Vanilla to tbc to wotlk goes on and on and on. Combining niche talents with niche items and set bonuses and armour types.

Was it optimal? Fuck no. Was it fun? Fuck yes.

And a fake sense of creativity is better than a real sense of fucking boredom.

[Magicon]

Sounds about right.

Everyone was whining when BM was top tier at the beginning of Uldir. How dare a spec with mobility have good dps? Must be nerfed.

yep /10char

[Monster Hunter]

BM has all the advantages that melee has while still being ranged. That is an advantage no matter what mechanic you look at.

When you have a large part of AI in your spec you will also have to accept a lower performance.

Don't seem to help them with split target fights much.

[Kaver]

Maybe if all of the pets attacks (kill command included) has a 100% chance to land, but sometimes ( a lot of times) pet got stuck in somewhere. And another point: As a ranged class, you cannot always chose to stay 2 yd from boss because some mechanics pick ranged class and you don't want to drop bad stuff near tank and other mele ones.

We are talking only about PvE content here, on the PvP side, other ranged classes can put a dot on enemys and LoS, sure some dots can be dispell, but hunter pets can be snared, stuned or killed, and when you try to ress then, you can be interrupt too.

I have nothing to say about pvp.

Pets getting stucked doesnt happen very often. But it is something you have to accept when having AI in your spec. On the other side the pet works as a permanent dot and does a lot of effortless auto damage.

Of course BM still have to stack with other ranged in some situation but most of the time they can stand wherever they want. Especially in M+.

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Don't seem to help them with split target fights much.

That’s true. But with the low skill cap BM has you cant expect it being good at everything. No cast time, no split target damage. It’s only fair.

[Freshouttajail]

Reckoning bomb pala, pom pyro mage, smite priest, imp gun warlock, hemo rouges....... The list of fun meme specs from Vanilla to tbc to wotlk goes on and on and on. Combining niche talents with niche items and set bonuses and armour types.

Was it optimal? Fuck no. Was it fun? Fuck yes.

And a fake sense of creativity is better than a real sense of fucking boredom.

These options don't dont come with the talent system. They come with the content, different talents, different items, different stats and itemization and ability scaling. They could bring all this back today and keep the current talent system, it would work exactly the same way. The talent system is just a page layout that dictates how you click on icons to gain upgrades. The upgrades are what makes a difference in gameplay, not really how you spend your points.