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  1. #21
    Pandaren Monk Strikeywikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mavick View Post
    Yes BM is that shit. Anyone saying otherwise is just an ape that couldn't tell what good dps is to save their lives.

    And for the people talking about how they were in for the world firsts, it wasn't because of their dps. They were just tank escort/mechanic monkeys. That doesn't mean the dps isn't still shit.
    So it's useful then.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbolt View Post
    People still not understanding how to use logs in 2019.

    Will they ever
    2 things I think that entail it'll never happen:

    1. Stupidity: people genuinely don't understand how to use stats. OP doesn't have a clue. And people like me can't be bothered to explain why posting what was posted in the OP is useless af.

    2. Dishonesty: people like to use stats, interpret them purposely in the incorrect way to support/justify their poor views/performance in game


    Probably more reasons; but ya, every time someone posts stuff like this I just cringe.

  3. #23
    If you look at the representation in raid, sorted in order of spec DPS ranking (lowest on the left) then you get this:



    There are plenty of spots for BMs. They're a very useful spec to bring to progression. They're especially useful to give special jobs to without it tanking their DPS. Sure it's going to lower it sometimes, but they don't lose as much as other specs. They bring enough that almost all the time if you can have a BM, you should have a BM. When you don't want a BM, you probably consider an MM.

    There are more BMs than arms, survival, fire mage, frost DK, unholy DK, and sub rogues combined. That's not really the sign of a shit spec. Also you have the option of going MM if you really want/need to push damage. Warriors, DKs, rogues, monks, mages, DHs, and paladins don't have the option of a DPS spec that's better than the highest damage hunter spec. Overall, there's plenty of options for hunters in Dazar Alor.
    Last edited by klogaroth; 2019-02-09 at 12:36 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidywoidy View Post
    So it's useful then.
    Exactly. it's almost as if they guy you're replying to didn't even bother to read the OP, which implied they were "useless" by using the word "useless".

  5. #25


    I really wouldn't care about 3887 dps.
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -updated 2/8/2019

  6. #26
    I really am sick of seeing people think parses are the end all of what makes a spec good in this game.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    I really am sick of seeing people think parses are the end all of what makes a spec good in this game.
    Good parses definitely don't make spec worse, while bad parses do make spec worse. Parses is very good indicator of spec performance and viability.

    Atm there's zero reason to bring hunter anywhere, except if you really need that utility (only Jaina mythic comes to mind).
    Last edited by TOM_RUS; 2019-02-09 at 12:43 AM.

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    Good parses definitely don't make spec worse, while bad parses do make spec worse. Parses is very good indicator of spec performance and viability.
    Yeah for top 50 guilds and top 100 mythic+ groups. For anyone else outside of that, which is 98% of the player base, it really does not matter one bit.

  9. #29
    Pandaren Monk Strikeywikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    Good parses definitely don't make spec worse, while bad parses do make spec worse. Parses is very good indicator of spec performance and viability.

    Atm there's zero reason to bring hunter anywhere, except if you really need that utility (only Jaina mythic comes to mind).
    BM has always been a great spec for progression, because learning mechanics and working them around your casts is hard. BM doesn't have to worry because everything can be cast on the move, you just need to be able to perform your rotation correctly and you'll probably do well. Also, giving them jobs such as kiting, soaking, escorting etc is a benefit to the rest of the group since you can maintain your damage whereas sending a mage to do it would make their dps worse.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbolt View Post
    Yeah for top 50 guilds and top 100 mythic+ groups. For anyone else outside of that, which is 98% of the player base, it really does not matter one bit.
    Except even casual guilds copy whatever top guilds do. If hunters are shit, they are shit even in casual guild. Simple as that.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    Except even casual guilds copy whatever top guilds do. If hunters are shit, they are shit even in casual guild. Simple as that.
    But top guilds are still bringing BMs....

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidywoidy View Post
    BM has always been a great spec for progression, because learning mechanics and working them around your casts is hard. BM doesn't have to worry because everything can be cast on the move, you just need to be able to perform your rotation correctly and you'll probably do well. Also, giving them jobs such as kiting, soaking, escorting etc is a benefit to the rest of the group since you can maintain your damage whereas sending a mage to do it would make their dps worse.
    But this isn't the case for Battle for Dazar'alor and parses show that pretty clear. Even while other classes still learning encounters, BM is already at bottom when it should be near top due to it's mobility. This situation will only get worse and worse in coming weeks as players learn encounters. DPS gap will continue to increase, not to the favor of BM...

    Quote Originally Posted by klogaroth View Post
    But top guilds are still bringing BMs....
    They don't? Most of hunters in top guilds are MM's.
    Last edited by TOM_RUS; 2019-02-09 at 01:02 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Liarparadox View Post
    Exactly. it's almost as if they guy you're replying to didn't even bother to read the OP, which implied they were "useless" by using the word "useless".
    It basically is, so nothing about what I said was inaccurate. People will hold up Gingi as an example forever but if you actually watched his stream after the kill he gave the reasons he stayed bm. Which boiled down essentially to being a tank escort (which MM could also do in all reality, being as 80% as mobile as bm is) and the fact that he landed a pretty good bm set to start with as opposed to having pretty bad traits for MM. This is also ignoring the fact that Limit got world 2nd on it without a bm hunter at all, just Dossou as MM.

    Failing those 2 criteria, there is literally no reason to go bm, which is still a dps class that is doing a horrible job at doing dps.
    Last edited by Mavick; 2019-02-09 at 01:04 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    They don't? Most of hunters in top guilds are MM's.
    You have to get to mythic Mekkatorque before MM outnumbers BM, and then it's only by a small margin. Blockade doesn't really favour hunters in general compared to spread cleave specs so you see alts coming out there. Jaina has a tiny number to draw from, but featured a BM in the first kill. I'm not sure what Alpha's comp was. When you look at the specs being played earlier in the instance by people playing MM now, many used BM for first kills.

    BMs are still getting spots. In mythic in general they're getting spots in huge numbers compared to some entire classes and compared to MM.
    Last edited by klogaroth; 2019-02-09 at 01:08 AM.

  15. #35
    An important note to also make is that as people get more gear you're going to see that dps gulf widen. MM scales like a beast, BM just simply doesn't. Literally every piece I've gotten has been barely half the upgrade value for BM as it is for MM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavick View Post
    An important note to also make is that as people get more gear you're going to see that dps gulf widen. MM scales like a beast, BM just simply doesn't. Literally every piece I've gotten has been barely half the upgrade value for BM as it is for MM.
    Yeah. I've reported this bug countless times, Blizzard just not gives a single fuck about it.

  17. #37
    Because it's a feature, not a bug

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by klogaroth View Post
    But top guilds are still bringing BMs....
    No they are not. I am getting a bit tired of reading everyhwere that hunters are fine. You do know that Ging for example was 50% dps behind the number 1 dps on Jaina.
    I am not saying you cant bring a bm to the fights I am saying that it's retarded to call bm fine because a few are being brought to mythic progression. We are too far behind. Why would anyone take a bm hunter. The core strenght mobility is about 0% usefull on current tier. The warlocks 10ilvls below bm is doing a serieus shit ton more dps then bm. So that means bm is auto-bench in most guilds.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by klogaroth View Post
    If you look at the representation in raid, sorted in order of spec DPS ranking (lowest on the left) then you get this:



    There are plenty of spots for BMs. They're a very useful spec to bring to progression. They're especially useful to give special jobs to without it tanking their DPS. Sure it's going to lower it sometimes, but they don't lose as much as other specs. They bring enough that almost all the time if you can have a BM, you should have a BM. When you don't want a BM, you probably consider an MM.

    There are more BMs than arms, survival, fire mage, frost DK, unholy DK, and sub rogues combined. That's not really the sign of a shit spec. Also you have the option of going MM if you really want/need to push damage. Warriors, DKs, rogues, monks, mages, DHs, and paladins don't have the option of a DPS spec that's better than the highest damage hunter spec. Overall, there's plenty of options for hunters in Dazar Alor.
    blizz probably sees no reason to buff BM when it's so overplayed. they only buff specs that nobody plays and gets kicked from groups, or makes memes on reddit.

  20. #40
    BM will always be fine because of the freedom and have a very good average performance. It will typically never have the potential for absolute maximum performance but that only matters when bosses are on farm. During progression parses wont matter. It’s more about doing mechanics correctly and BM has amazing potential of doing that. Gingi from Method played BM during their World First which just shows that BM hunters always will have spots in raids no matter of their maximum dps potential.

    Also, if you join a random pug for normal or heroic BoD you will see that BM hunters perform much better than shown in the logs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by asil View Post
    I really am sick of seeing people think parses are the end all of what makes a spec good in this game.
    Exactly. When my guild are doing mythic progression, we often see BM hunters on top of the meters because they have much more uptime and freedom compared to other classes. Parses and Logs often shows the maximum dps potential after bosses are on farm but that doesn’t matter at all.

    People who do high logs also often ignore mechanics and focus only on maximising dps. They ignore priority targets etc if it will reduce their overall dps output.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2019-02-10 at 12:56 PM.

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