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  1. #281
    Make the dps gap smaller so that the best of class X isn’t performing as well as the worst of class Y.

    That’s the issue I have. Parsing 100% and only putting out the same numbers as someone semi cluelessly hitting buttons at 50% and having them state that the reason their numbers are better is because my class is easier to play even though they needed that crutch to make themselves feel better.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavick View Post
    Nobody is actually saying that. You're just pretending that's what was said so you can argue about nothing.
    You are literally arguing that no one has said that when you and Kaver have both stated you can play the spec suboptimally and still pull good enough numbers for the spec to be considered easy. One of you (hard to keep you both straight when you both argue the way you two do) even went so far as to say your pet does so much of your damage that it makes the spec seem like nothing else you do has that big of an impact on your dps.
    Kaver has actually said that the CD of BW is so short you need almost no planning for its use and can use it whenever you want.
    When someone makes these comments and states that’s why it’s so easy, it reads such that: play how you want and the spec is so easy you will see so little of a difference from high performing BM players vs low end BM players because it’s just THAT easy.
    As with Kaver though, I’m done arguing with you as well. It’s to the point where no matter what anyone says to you all you do is pick one or a few sentences out of a long post to argue with while ignoring the entire point. Hell, you even glossed over where I stated BM is easy in one of my posts to argue that I was stating BM is hard to play based off of a sentence about min/max not being as easy as “press whatever off of CD.”

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Sim View Post
    This is the one millionth time this topic has been made.

    - BM always starts off strong because of last expansions "fixes".
    - People just whine whine whine whine whine about BM being good.
    - Blizzard then nerfs BM
    - Then when ilvls go up BM starts falling behind because Hunters (usually BM) don't scale well at all. This is death and taxes.
    - Blizzard then proceeds to turn dials slightly offering "buffs" to keep Hunters (usually BM) afloat.
    - New expansion rolls and cycle repeats.
    Pretty much this
    (BM only since vanilla)

  4. #284
    I've been BM for almost all of my 14yr time on my hunter. I like hunting for exotic pets.
    The hunter hoe with the least beloe.

  5. #285
    BM is almost always underrepresented on actual combatlog damage in difficult boss encounters... They are the "get-out-of-jail" card of the raid with the least effect on dmg while doing the special roles many fights require 1-2 people to do to actually kill the boss.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by SkagenRora View Post
    Which is what confuses me the most..

    These mythic guilds care enough to faction/race change the entire guild for minor stat increases.. Yet they allow their members to play sub-par speccs.

    It just dosen't make sense to me, If that guy was MM instead of BM, it would probably be a bigger dps increase than to race change to troll.

    Are there still people out there that say with confidence that method changed to troll for dps increase? They race changed for the passive racial that was making jaina's massive damage dot drop faster because it counted as a slow. jesus christ this whole forum is a case study for dunning Kruger effect
    Last edited by faithbane; Yesterday at 07:58 AM.

  7. #287
    Thinking that BM has good mobility is pretty lolzy. Competent raid leaders figure out tactics that work around the mobility limitations of other classes. e.g. on Rastakhan mythic the ranged stack in a specific spot during Bwonsamdi phase and never move at all. That completely nullifies BM's mobility advantage. Plus when you have moments where mobility actually matters, other classes can do it just as well as BM hunters if not better. All BM has is a pathetic 4 second sprint that's bogged down by a hard to control jumping mechanic and a slightly faster sprint on a 3 minute cooldown.

    All in all, BM's mobility is overrated.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    You are literally arguing that no one has said that when you and Kaver have both stated you can play the spec suboptimally and still pull good enough numbers for the spec to be considered easy. One of you (hard to keep you both straight when you both argue the way you two do) even went so far as to say your pet does so much of your damage that it makes the spec seem like nothing else you do has that big of an impact on your dps.
    It honestly just gets more pathetic when you completely misrepresent what was actually said like this. "Good enough numbers", jesus, that is just completely your own invention. I don't even know why you keep replying when you can't even get what is being said straight.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavick View Post
    Not trying to get away with anything, I just literally quoted you to prove that your later response was full of shit. And I've already rebutted what you said after that quote anyway, which is just garbled nonsense about buffs that everyone hits anyway. The point I originally made was that BM by far has more automatic damage than any other class and that serves as a huge buffer for actual "skill". Nothing that you or anyone else has said since then has in any way, shape or form managed to dispute that simple fact.
    You don't get to deliberately leave crucial context out to make it look like I was contradicting yourself. Whether or not you agree with what I said after the part you quoted (and you should agree because I am right) it is crucial context for the part you did quote and leaving it out is dishonest no matter how you look at it. The point I was making was "I'm looking at 50% of my damage done by the pet and in reality it's even less than that because I'm responsible for much of that 50% as well". You glossed over the second part, and when I reminded you of it you quoted the post while leaving it out. You were deliberately trying to mislead everyone here and if you had any shame at all you would apologise. Detestable attitude.

    At the very best you can argue that there is a high skill floor of BM due to the automatic damage. But it's really irrelevant because that skill floor is not enough to compete in raids no matter what, and it says nothing of the skill ceiling. "You can just hit your abilities in random order and still do fine" is not a real argument because in this day and age it applies to just about every single DPS spec in the game. I can go on my Frost Mage and totally ignore the proc priority and just hit whatever lights up as soon as it lights up and I'll probably still do "decent DPS". Hey, that spec even has automatic damage from the pet as well! Should I also mention Unholy Death Knight which has its top 3 damage sources as Melee (DK), Melee (Pet), and Melee (AotD)? Of course not because in that spec that automatic damage is also dependent on the active actions of the DK whether or not they are executing their priority or not.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavick View Post
    It honestly just gets more pathetic when you completely misrepresent what was actually said like this. "Good enough numbers", jesus, that is just completely your own invention. I don't even know why you keep replying when you can't even get what is being said straight.
    Your post on page 6 in this forum:
    “I didn't say 70% of damage was pet "autos", stop reading into what I'm typing please. I said 70% of it is automatic, pet basic attacks and auto shot is included in that, and you have to do nothing but right click on the boss and face it for that. And what does it matter if it's "harder" to min/max on bm when it literally only gains you 1/8th of the damage that same effort would take for any other class?

    Your point is stupid, as I originally pointed out. It's quite simple and common sense to say that even if the rotation is hard, yet performing it sub-optimally only loses 3-5% damage because 70% of your overall is automatic, then who fucking cares. No other spec has that kind of cushion for being bad, not even close.”
    -End of your post. You also were proven wrong about stating that 70% of damage was from pet autos, even after stating you never said that. This was also a perfect example of how you gloss over an entire post to try and argue one sentence from it that you were even wrong about. Oh, and before you misquote me again, the entire finishing of the quote you are arguing was that you and/or Kaver stated “good enough numbers for the spec to be considered easy.” Just want to head you off at the pass before you try to state I’m making a point low dps is good enough for mythic raiding or some BS.

    At this point I’m more convinced than ever that you are either trolling or there are multiple people posting on your account that you can’t even keep your arguements straight anymore.
    Please, feel free to backtrack again and try to change the meaning of what you posted, you’ve done it multiple times. I really am done replying to you now, even though it has been extremely fun throwing these things back at you.
    Last edited by Eapoe; Yesterday at 08:04 PM.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    You don't get to deliberately leave crucial context out to make it look like I was contradicting yourself. Whether or not you agree with what I said after the part you quoted (and you should agree because I am right) it is crucial context for the part you did quote and leaving it out is dishonest no matter how you look at it. The point I was making was "I'm looking at 50% of my damage done by the pet and in reality it's even less than that because I'm responsible for much of that 50% as well". You glossed over the second part, and when I reminded you of it you quoted the post while leaving it out. You were deliberately trying to mislead everyone here and if you had any shame at all you would apologise. Detestable attitude.

    At the very best you can argue that there is a high skill floor of BM due to the automatic damage. But it's really irrelevant because that skill floor is not enough to compete in raids no matter what, and it says nothing of the skill ceiling. "You can just hit your abilities in random order and still do fine" is not a real argument because in this day and age it applies to just about every single DPS spec in the game. I can go on my Frost Mage and totally ignore the proc priority and just hit whatever lights up as soon as it lights up and I'll probably still do "decent DPS". Hey, that spec even has automatic damage from the pet as well! Should I also mention Unholy Death Knight which has its top 3 damage sources as Melee (DK), Melee (Pet), and Melee (AotD)? Of course not because in that spec that automatic damage is also dependent on the active actions of the DK whether or not they are executing their priority or not.
    I had already talked about the context, which is just murky waters because neither you, nor me, even somebody like Azor would have trouble putting an exact number on how much of that "automatic damage" you actually would be responsible for given things like BW useage and frenzy buff uptime. And in the end, it would still come down to how much of the pull you do it right, and how much you can't/didn't. But the fact remains that even if played exactly right, BM would still have far more automatic damage than any other class out there, and that is the basis of my argument. Bringing up factors that you yourself couldn't even put an exact number/percentage value on just to make your side of the argument "seem" correct doesn't change that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Your post on page 6 in this forum:
    “I didn't say 70% of damage was pet "autos", stop reading into what I'm typing please. I said 70% of it is automatic, pet basic attacks and auto shot is included in that, and you have to do nothing but right click on the boss and face it for that. And what does it matter if it's "harder" to min/max on bm when it literally only gains you 1/8th of the damage that same effort would take for any other class?

    Your point is stupid, as I originally pointed out. It's quite simple and common sense to say that even if the rotation is hard, yet performing it sub-optimally only loses 3-5% damage because 70% of your overall is automatic, then who fucking cares. No other spec has that kind of cushion for being bad, not even close.”
    -End of your post. You also were proven wrong about stating that 70% of damage was from pet autos, even after stating you never said that. This was also a perfect example of how you gloss over an entire post to try and argue one sentence from it that you were even wrong about. Oh, and before you misquote me again, the entire finishing of the quote you are arguing was that you and/or Kaver stated “good enough numbers for the spec to be considered easy.” Just want to head you off at the pass before you try to state I’m making a point low dps is good enough for mythic raiding or some BS.

    At this point I’m more convinced than ever that you are either trolling or there are multiple people posting on your account that you can’t even keep your arguements straight anymore.
    Please, feel free to backtrack again and try to change the meaning of what you posted, you’ve done it multiple times. I really am done replying to you now, even though it has been extremely fun throwing these things back at you.
    I was a bit high with 70%, yes. Probably because the last time this was brought up in hunter discord was much before this tier and scaling may have changed that. Also there was a point before they changed the value you get from mastery as well, so I was probably using a percentage from an old discussion on that. But it still is around half your damage. So going from 70% down to 50% (and 50% was basically the low end of the spectrum, different logs go up to about 60%) isn't some kind of radical swing in numbers. THE POINT IS: BM gets a helluva lot more free damage than any other class out there. Just because you want to cloud the waters with nitpicking over exact numbers doesn't change that fact either. The 70% thing is literally the only thing I've altered, and that's fine, because it really doesn't change anything whatsoever about the basis of my argument. You're the one who keeps misquoting me as saying things like "oh it's just pet autos" which I just flat out didn't say. Or "you can just do whatever and still be good enough" which I also didn't say. These are just examples of you either completely misconstruing what I actually said or just simply being too small-brained to grasp it.

    If it's still at all unclear what my argument is: When a significant portion of your damage is simply automatic (and you can debate if it's 30%, 40%, 50%, 60%, whatever but far more than 0-15%) than the portion that is left over for overall is less than it would be for those other classes that actually are around that 0-15% mark. That means that what you do/what you press is having less an impact and therefor makes the spec less punishing, because you are taking less of a dps loss for fucking up. If you dispute that, than you're just. simply. wrong.

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