PvE Raid Vendor Badge System will never come back?

[Big Thanks]

Recently a youtuber found a precious gem on the youtubes.
A video of Travis Day, the creator of the Badge System in World of Warcraft giving his thoughts on the entire system.

And...he says the whole thing was a trainwreck...the whole thing was terrible...he is sorry he ever created it...it was a total disaster.

video link to the specific part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urijgWXLYck&t=13m55s

What are your thoughts?
It may have been a disaster just in the sense of "design" because it was too convoluted.
The thing is that it needed to be convoluted, otherwise it could be exploited (he talked about this right before the part i linked)

What do you guys think about this? Vendors for raids never again?
This was the system in WotlK:


https://wow.gamepedia.com/Emblem

[FelPlague]

Recently a youtuber found a precious gem on the youtubes.
A video of Travis Day, the creator of the Badge System in World of Warcraft giving his thoughts on the entire system.

And...he says the whole thing was a trainwreck...the whole thing was terrible...he is sorry he ever created it...it was a total disaster.

video link to the specific part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urijgWXLYck&t=13m55s

What are your thoughts?
It may have been a disaster just in the sense of "design" because it was too convoluted.
The thing is that it needed to be convoluted, otherwise it could be exploited (he talked about this right before the part i linked)

What do you guys think about this? Vendors for raids never again?
This was the system in WotlK:


https://wow.gamepedia.com/Emblem

He is saying the badge system was a failure because there was 5 badges and so much conversion...
he is not saying "badge vendors are a disaster"

literally could you not have watched the video for 3 seconds?


Direct qoute. "What the hell were we thinking. this was how the badge system looked in wotlk, there was obviously 5 different types of badges, with 5 diofferent vendors, look for a city, and try to find what vendor was the right vendor, and downgrade, and it was a train wreck the whole thing was terrible. We ended up with way more then we wanted"


the issue is not badges, its that they had FIVE TYPES OF BADGES



but yes he does admit there is problems with it. Replacing the gear dropping system.there is alot of issues with the system, and he admits it, but therwe is ways to bring it back, just... very rough..

[kamuimac]

Recently a youtuber found a precious gem on the youtubes.
A video of Travis Day, the creator of the Badge System in World of Warcraft giving his thoughts on the entire system.

And...he says the whole thing was a trainwreck...the whole thing was terrible...he is sorry he ever created it...it was a total disaster.

video link to the specific part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urijgWXLYck&t=13m55s

What are your thoughts?
It may have been a disaster just in the sense of "design" because it was too convoluted.
The thing is that it needed to be convoluted, otherwise it could be exploited (he talked about this right before the part i linked)

What do you guys think about this? Vendors for raids never again?
This was the system in WotlK:


https://wow.gamepedia.com/Emblem

raid vendors have been gone for what 6 years now ?

i dont know what you people are waiting for its obvious they are never coming back .

[FelPlague]

raid vendors have been gone for what 6 years now ?

i dont know what you people are waiting for its obvious they are never coming back .

I mean they are slowly.

1. azerite vendor
2. gladiator's token

so they may return.
just not with 5 fucking badge types obviously.

[Justpassing]

It will. Then it will be presented as a great new feature to dazzle the audience who hasn't played WoTLK or TBC.

[RoKPaNda]

No, badges were always horrible. If you were doing the raid at all badges were completely worthless. The relinquished vendors of Legion were better in just about every way.

[Claitraith]

What was wrong with one set of badges per expansion? I did not overly mind the WTLK badges but agree 5 was a bit mental. Badges of Justice for me worked and I see no little difference in badges of justice to azerite vendors except that with the current system. I am reluctant to trade any personal loot Azerite gear I get to others which is not a good situation since they could physically use the gear but I need to scrap it.

[Big Thanks]

I mean they are slowly.

1. azerite vendor
2. gladiator's token

so they may return.
just not with 5 fucking badge types obviously.

Like i said on the OP...the system needs to be convoluted to work...otherwise it could be exploited like it was in TBC (he talked about it previously to the part i linked)

How do you suggest the system would work without 5 kinds of badges?

- - - Updated - - -

What was wrong with one set of badges per expansion? I did not overly mind the WTLK badges but agree 5 was a bit mental. Badges of Justice for me worked and I see no little difference in badges of justice to azerite vendors except that with the current system. I am reluctant to trade any personal loot Azerite gear I get to others which is not a good situation since they could physically use the gear but I need to scrap it.

wait one sec, let me link you the part where he talked about this...

@Claitraith @FelPlague
Here is the part of the problem when there is only one type of badge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urijgWXLYck&t=12m40s

[Weeps]

You can say the YouTuber's name, you know.

Preach Gaming. He's the one who brought this to attention.

His point about badges is absolutely viable. Needing a tier leg plus the badge, etc is so fucking confusing.

"I raid heroic 25 man but you're telling me I need to go back to normal and get the badge to buy the piece I need then finally use my heroic 25 epic token to buy... what am i saying?"

Try farming mog for ICC gear in WOTLK. It is confusing as fuck.

[burek]

You have the badge system right now, it's called titan residuum. You can buy only 3 slots, but its the most powerful ones, and its farmed the same way, by doing dungeons & raids over a period of time.

[Big Thanks]

You can say the YouTuber's name, you know.

Preach Gaming. He's the one who brought this to attention.

Oh im not entering that drama.
There is always drama when people say his name.

[FelPlague]

Like i said on the OP...the system needs to be convoluted to work...otherwise it could be exploited like it was in TBC (he talked about it previously to the part i linked)

How do you suggest the system would work without 5 kinds of badges?

- - - Updated - - -



wait one sec, let me link you the part where he talked about this...

@Claitraith @FelPlague
Here is the part of the problem when there is only one type of badge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urijgWXLYck&t=12m40s

I know, i watched, why i said there is ways but they need to be fixed, for example just have 2 currencies "old and new" so when new stuff comes out, have it cost new currency, any stuff before costs old currency, and any currency now becomes old currency. and boom.

and no it does not need to be complex to not be abused, look at what i just posted.

[Big Thanks]

I know, i watched, why i said there is ways but they need to be fixed, for example just have 2 currencies "old and new" so when new stuff comes out, have it cost new currency, any stuff before costs old currency, and any currency now becomes old currency. and boom.

Might work and sounds good on paper.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I doubt it will happen. Odds are just higher new factions come out that have useful times tied to rep or separate currency like the invasion deal that came out in 8.1.

[Claitraith]

I know, i watched, why i said there is ways but they need to be fixed, for example just have 2 currencies "old and new" so when new stuff comes out, have it cost new currency, any stuff before costs old currency, and any currency now becomes old currency. and boom.

and no it does not need to be complex to not be abused, look at what i just posted.

This is bang on the mark. Hardcore players will always find a way to max their best chance at new progression. It's fact, they will look to exploit any tiny area that gives a head start. Having something called "badges of current" where you farm X many for an item. The new raid comes out and their items cost x many of a new badge not in game yet and the old raid becomes "badges of catch up".

Eventually all previous raids cost badges of catch up and people can get up to speed on alts to the previous tier to the current.

The other option is to just make the current raid cost badges and previous tiers cost gold but it really does not need to be complex.

Edit --

Justice points and valour points with a reset of valour to justice each tier.

[Big Thanks]

@Claitraith @FelPlague

But everything on the old currency must be useless for the new raid tier...
Imagine there is Mythic level raid items from the previous tier on the vendor.
Those are some busted items.

It would be the equivalent of us having today at our disposal ilvl 385 gear to buy with old currency.
Which is the same as Dazar'Alor normal difficulty.

[Claitraith]

I don't think there is much requirement for mythic previous tier being available for purchase on catch up for that reason.

I think the best way would be to allow people to collect Valour points when uldir was out for uldir gear. These drop in low amounts from 5 man and reasonable amounts from Uldir.

Dazar'alor comes out and valour is changed to justice. You can now spend your justice points on gear increasing in justice points cost up to HC (370). Mythic gear is either no longer available from a vendor or remains at Valour cost. Rinse and repeat with the current raid where you buy gear using valour.

[Xaviaton]

@Claitraith @FelPlague

But everything on the old currency must be useless for the new raid tier...
Imagine there is Mythic level raid items from the previous tier on the vendor.
Those are some busted items.

It would be the equivalent of us having today at our disposal ilvl 385 gear to buy with old currency.
Which is the same as Dazar'Alor normal difficulty.

This is what I'm thinking as well. If I spend all of 8.1 farming "badges of catchup" from Uldir/HC Dungeons/Mythic0, then wait for 8.2 to buy myself full Mythic BoD armour and crush the raid competition in 8.2. Because I farmed easier content than the people doing BoD, I will have more "Badges of catchup" than those who did the current raid tier. The most efficient way to tackle a new raid tier is therefore doing the raid ONCE, then farm older content in preparation for the next patch. This in turn means that players will see a 0 iLvL increase over the course of a patch, only to get it bumped up by 10-15 at new patch day. I'm sure you could tweak the system to solve this problem but implementing a badge vendor is certainly not a straightforward process.

[Zephre]

Systems like this need to return, simple as, same with PvP vendors.

I've played 78 arena's recently and won about 41 of them, in those 41 games I've won I've received 2 items. Without vendors and currencies we're left at the mercy of RNG which is not fun when the game is already overloaded with enough RNG to last a life time.

[Irian]

I mean, VP and JP served the same purpose and were way more simplified. I understand why he felt that way - the badges in WotLK were really convoluted - but you can do the same with points.

If they refuse to bring that back too though, then that's fine. It'll save me 15 dollars, assuming they're too creatively bankrupt to come up with something better than the dumpster fire that they have now.