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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    That's quite untrue. Ideologically, the Muslim community is one, the Ummah. If they were to respect what was ordained to them, they would be unified and a force to be afraid of. Because they gave up on what they were supposed to follow and do and adopted the ways of the empires they were fighting, they fell apart and never managed to come back from that.
    So it's quite untrue, but then again it's not, right.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Deradicalisation is quite normal, we do it all over Europe.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41927937
    Seems like the UK themselves is sending kids to these programs.
    Are you comparing deradicalisation to this shit:
    In July, a former teacher at one of the camps who fled to Kazakhstan told a court there that "in China they call it a political camp but really it was a prison in the mountains".

    The New York Times quoted former detainees as saying that they were forced to sing songs such as "Without the Communist Party, There Would Be No New China" and those who could not remember the words were not given breakfast.

    "In the end, all the officials had one key point. The greatness of the Chinese Communist Party, the backwardness of Uighur culture and the advanced nature of Chinese culture," former detainee Abdusalam Muhemet told the newspaper.

    The World Uyghur Congress said in a report that detainees were held indefinitely without charge, and forced to shout Communist Party slogans.

    It said they were poorly fed, and reports of torture were widespread.

    Most inmates have never been charged with a crime, it is claimed, and do not receive legal representation.
    One is clearly aiming to help kids and the other is political camp Soviet union style.

  3. #23
    Over 9000! Grimbold21's Avatar
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    They're just (re) education camps to conform to state ideology. What's the problem?

  4. #24
    Banned Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luc54 View Post
    Are you comparing deradicalisation to this shit:

    One is clearly aiming to help kids and the other is political camp Soviet union style.
    I wanted to call it some dumb Cold War bullshit, but calling it Soviet union style political camps is basically doing that for me.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realitytrembles View Post
    Because they know that (unlike the West) the Chinese aren't a bunch of hand-wringing wussies when it comes to confronting radical Islamic terrorism.

    China is a tyrant state that doesn't value individual human lives. For terrorists, its like looking into a mirror. China speaks the language of naked power, untroubled by ethical nonsense.

    That's the only language that ideologically motivated radicals understand.

    A million dead Chinese is nothing

    -- Deng Xiaoping, leader of the communist party, talking about Tianmamen Square protests
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    A million dead Chinese is nothing

    -- Deng Xiaoping, leader of the communist party, talking about Tianmamen Square protests
    Exactly my point. If the CCP will kill peaceful protestors in such amounts, imagine what they will do to rebel/terrorist groups within their own country.

    The only nation that gives China pause is the US, because we existentially threaten them. There is no Muslim nation of anywhere near sufficient power to do the same.
    "Independence forever!" --- President John Adams
    "America is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own." --- President John Quincy Adams
    "Our Federal Union! It must be preserved!" --- President Andrew Jackson

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realitytrembles View Post
    Exactly my point. If the CCP will kill peaceful protestors in such amounts, imagine what they will do to rebel/terrorist groups within their own country.

    The only nation that gives China pause is the US, because we existentially threaten them. There is no Muslim nation of anywhere near sufficient power to do the same.
    the Arab Gulf Nations, the 5 small countries with Saudi Arabia can cripple China by simply quitting the oil, they are a threat too, but this issue seems to be not that important to risk doing that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...by_oil_imports

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...by_oil_exports

    China is 2nd in imports.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Realitytrembles View Post
    Exactly my point. If the CCP will kill peaceful protestors in such amounts, imagine what they will do to rebel/terrorist groups within their own country.

    The only nation that gives China pause is the US, because we existentially threaten them. There is no Muslim nation of anywhere near sufficient power to do the same.
    problem is, its not a threat they take well and conform to the US demands, its more like a big guy waking in on some one with little man syndrome, when ever the US has tried to push into a situation in china its only had the effect of making china double down to prove its not intimidated :/

    its a no win situation, china dose something we find shitty, we the west tell them "hay stop thats shitty" and china just dose it twice as bad as if to say "you don't scare me" and "come at me brah" its the same as how north Korea respond and they don't even have viable nukes.

  9. #29
    Banned Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Realitytrembles View Post
    Exactly my point. If the CCP will kill peaceful protestors in such amounts, imagine what they will do to rebel/terrorist groups within their own country.
    You do know that he pulled that quote out of his ass?
    The only nation that gives China pause is the US, because we existentially threaten them. There is no Muslim nation of anywhere near sufficient power to do the same.
    It's the other way around, China is the only thing threatening western hegemony at this moment.
    The last threat was the USSR, which we destroyed. Now we are trying to destroy China.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Teaon View Post
    the Arab Gulf Nations, the 5 small countries with Saudi Arabia can cripple China by simply quitting the oil, they are a threat too, but this issue seems to be not that important to risk doing that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...by_oil_imports

    China is 2nd in imports.
    china has the Gobi and a bunch of alternate sources if it needs them. its just cheaper atm to import from the middle east than build up there own infrastructure. and even if thats just a bluff, oil money is too important to regional stability in the middle east to risk losing your 2nd largest customer.

    the black gold is a double edged sword. people that think Saudi and co can use it as a geopolitical chip forget that the ramifications of not selling to china are just as bad for them as it is for china.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoGodPleaseNo View Post
    china has the Gobi and a bunch of alternate sources if it needs them. its just cheaper atm to import from the middle east than build up there own infrastructure. and even if thats just a bluff, oil money is too important to regional stability in the middle east to risk losing your 2nd largest customer.

    the black gold is a double edged sword. people that think Saudi and co can use it as a geopolitical chip forget that the ramifications of not selling to china are just as bad for them as it is for china.
    Yeah very true, but then again, the Arabs didn't hesitate to swing the oil weapon back then.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

    Japan
    Although lacking historical connections to the Middle East, Japan was the country most dependent on Arab oil. 71% of its imported oil came from the Middle East in 1970. On November 7, 1973, the Saudi and Kuwaiti governments declared Japan a "nonfriendly" country to encourage it to change its noninvolvement policy. It received a 5% production cut in December, causing a panic. On November 22, Japan issued a statement "asserting that Israel should withdraw from all of the 1967 territories, advocating Palestinian self-determination, and threatening to reconsider its policy toward Israel if Israel refused to accept these preconditions".[72] By December 25, Japan was considered an Arab-friendly state.
    it will wildly increase the price of oils, which is going to super effect China, and might be useful for the Arabs later, but it can be a political/economical suicide at the same time, but China can be swayed by the oil weapon if the Arabs needed that so bad.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Teaon View Post
    Yeah very true, but then again, the Arabs didn't hesitate to swing the oil weapon back then.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis



    it will wildly increase the price of oils, which is going to super effect China, and might be useful for the Arabs later, but it can be a political/economical suicide at the same time, but China can be swayed by the oil weapon if the Arabs needed that so bad.
    you have to remember that was 1973, the middle east was much more tightly controlled by a few select tyrants and military regimes that were propped up financial and with weapons via the USSR and the USA. they had the freedom from that to use oil as more leverage. nowadays the USSR is gone, the tyrants are mostly gone and the USA is in a down tick on involvement. oil $$$ is the only thing holding a lot of those country's together and they know it. the whole friendly/non-freindly discounts vanished with the end of the cold war, and they only ever worked on the smaller nations like japan. big consumers that made up a large proportion of the oil income like china is now and the USA were back then, were always immune because even Arabian tyrants know not to bite the hand that feeds too much.

  13. #33
    turkey lecturing over human rights oh the irony

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    That's actually really scary. When a nation, any nation, becomes so self-absorbed that they can't be told anything they don't want to hear by anyone else and simply dismiss it as "meddling."
    Well...It's not a uniquely Chinese trait to be honest. We in the US still have Guantanamo Bay despite of universal international condemnation, we pulled out of the Iran deal, invaded Iraq, renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries when the French protested too much, and on top of it all elected Donald J. Trump, the biggest "Fuck you! I do what I want!" we could have possible given to the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Sure..



    But more interesting might be this website: https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/chn/
    You have to play a bit around, but when you check the biggest Islamic countries you find that in the recent 5+ years China has dethroned many EU/US-countries.

    Some comparisons with 2007 (before crisis):
    Nigeria imported 11% from China, now 28%.. Almost the same as Benelux, UK, France, Germany and USA together.
    In Turkey China overthrew Germany.
    China went strong in Egypt and nearly kicked out the US, they now send almost as much to Egypt as North and South America combined.
    They also went from 12% to 22% in Indonesia.
    "We" do not like it that China is kicking our asses all over the world in trade.


    Deradicalisation is quite normal, we do it all over Europe.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41927937
    Seems like the UK themselves is sending kids to these programs.
    Your sources stink, they either don't have anything to do with the topic or are nothing but whataboutism. You try to spin the whole thing to fit your narrative but this topic isn't about Chinese trade with other nations it's about their actions toward their own citizen. These days it's about the Uighurs but there are many many other atrocious crimes the Chinese government inflict on its own population like the falun gong organ harvesting INFO and before you say it's propaganda the organisation is run by a bunch of old holocaust survivors, they don't hold power and don't seek it, they're just in it because of what happened to them.

    What are you trying to do? Are you trying to come of as credible by displaying a large list of information in the hopes people are not going to click on it and think you're credible? There are plenty of easily available and credible sources on the Uighur situation with just a quick google.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Darya View Post
    Can people make their minds up? One day, muslims are an ethno-religious group and it's racism to oppose Islam because the believers are an ethno-religious group but now they're ethnically diverse and not a group?
    Perhaps ethnicity and nationality is not as clearly defined in reality as it is in the Estonian translation of Mein Kampf.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    It doesnt destroy the land to bury styrofoam 25 feet below the ground
    Today Obama once again kneeled at the altar of environmental naziism and hurt this once great country. He has now banned all drilling in the Atlantic Ocean

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap View Post
    I've often wondered why the Muslim world is quiet when it comes to the Muslim Uighurs situation.


    Why do you think this is?

    So, Turkey, wanna talk about the Armenian genocide or...?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro View Post
    China is not Japan though. China has the means to fuck a lot more with those states than Japan does. They'd likely pull the same shit they're doing to Vietnam, bullying them around because they don't have the military power to oppose them.
    Last time China tried to invade Vietnam they got soundly beaten by the Vietnamese. China has zero combat experience and a deeply corrupt and backstabbing hierarchy of general put into their positions based on how much political power they have, not their actual ability. I wouldn’t put much stock in what it says it could do.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    Last time China tried to invade Vietnam they got soundly beaten by the Vietnamese. China has zero combat experience and a deeply corrupt and backstabbing hierarchy of general put into their positions based on how much political power they have, not their actual ability. I wouldn’t put much stock in what it says it could do.
    Ok.

    I guess if you don't pay attention to what is happening in the South China sea it makes sense to think they're not fucking with them to get what they want.

  19. #39
    Meanwhile the Kurds...

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimjinx View Post
    Your sources stink, they either don't have anything to do with the topic or are nothing but whataboutism.
    I doubt you have read a single one of those.

    You try to spin the whole thing to fit your narrative but this topic isn't about Chinese trade with other nations it's about their actions toward their own citizen.
    This topic IS about Chinese trade because this trade is the sole reason this bullshit is so hot right now.
    China has been using this deradicalisation program for years! And only with the current economic war it's a hot topic.

    These days it's about the Uighurs but there are many many other atrocious crimes the Chinese government inflict on its own population like the falun gong organ harvesting INFO and before you say it's propaganda the organisation is run by a bunch of old holocaust survivors, they don't hold power and don't seek it, they're just in it because of what happened to them.
    The organ harvesting stories are nonsense too.
    Ironic how you're trying to prove you're not full of shit by posting more shit.
    Falun Gong is the Chinese Scientology and Infowars combined.

    Let's hear it from a former cult-member himself: https://medium.com/@Ben_D_Hurley/-10677166298b

    Or let's hear from someone else:
    The Falun gong cult is a hazard to society that the Chinese government was right to deal with.

    There are a long list of really dodgy beliefs and practices they engage in but I'd like to share a few choice examples.

    First of all, Li Hongzhi, the leader of the cult says that illness is a result of negative energy that you produce when thinking the wrong kinds of thoughts. So people who are sick shouldn't receive medical treatment, they should instead meditate and think good thoughts. As a result, cult members often die of treatable illnesses. It was a public health crisis in China when the cult was popular there. Li added a special layer of nasty to this principle by saying that one is also affected by the thoughts of those around them, so if your family members or other cult members who had contact with you weren't sending enough positive thoughts, your condition would worsen. So cultists are controlled by an extra level of guilt-tripping: "My friend wouldn't have died of cancer if I had sent more positive thoughts...I'm going to dedicate myself further to Falun Gong".

    Another great belief of Falun Gong is that people who try to prevent you from practicing are demons in disguise. Is your family trying to stop you from selling your house so you can donate to the cult? They are demons. Your family members are already dead and the demons are wearing their skin/appearing to you as your family.

    During the height of the cult, there were regular media reports within China of families being slaughtered by cult members who were convinced they were demons. Did I mention that the cult says you are justified in slaying these demons?

    The cult also runs intimidation campaigns within China against the families of police officers and soldiers. My friend's parents still receive automated calls basically telling them to repent.
    What are you trying to do? Are you trying to come of as credible by displaying a large list of information in the hopes people are not going to click on it and think you're credible? There are plenty of easily available and credible sources on the Uighur situation with just a quick google.
    He asked for a source, I gave an extensive list.
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?

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