No reason to return if you haven't already been playing

[Gadzooks]

This is the biggest issue I have with Allied Races and how they are unlocked. They require a huge time-sink just to unlock the ability to start a new character, something that in the past was a compelling new feature included with expansions.

I really wonder what prompted Blizzards to design so much content around Rep grinds? Because as far as I'm aware, almost everyone hates grinding reputation.

I don't know, that's not going to be a universal feeling. I know if I were to return (not happening), allied races would mean squat to me, they're just a cosmetic appearance, and I never cared for things like that at all. No new talents, professions, things to DO with them? Eh. Whatever. And I know I wouldn't be the only one. And probably why the devs don't just throw them at you for no work at all.

And, going by the amount of talk about how over the top the catch up mechanics are right now, i don't think most returning players would care, because they'd be too busy playing the actual content, and go grind up allied races in the stretch between the last raid and 9.0.

And, finally, from what I've read, the grind is two weeks, or so. You want them? Go do the grind. It's an MMO, you should be used to it. Stop trying to make a case to make it easier for YOU, by playing on the sympathies of mythical returning players.

[Wildberry]

Go do the grind. It's an MMO, you should be used to it.

Typically in MMOs, you grind to progress your character, not to progress to the character you want to play. Given how WoW has historically handled races, that was definitely the case for this game.

Allied race unlocks are bad at a foundational level, and this surface level rebuttal to criticism, regarding "putting in effort" shows a huge misunderstanding of historical reward structures, and the point of an MMO.

[Raysz]

This is the biggest issue I have with Allied Races and how they are unlocked. They require a huge time-sink just to unlock the ability to start a new character, something that in the past was a compelling new feature included with expansions.

I really wonder what prompted Blizzards to design so much content around Rep grinds? Because as far as I'm aware, almost everyone hates grinding reputation.

Grinding reputation has been a thing since Vanilla, are you new to the game. Grinding is a basic concept of mmo's.

[Eleccybubb]

Grinding reputation has been a thing since Vanilla, are you new to the game. Grinding is a basic concept of mmo's.

Really? We had to grind races since Vanilla? Last I remember Draenei, Goblins, Worgen, Blood Elves and Pandaren all came with the expansion box price to be created freely. Not timegated in game.

And the game had plenty to grind regardless. Reputation is fine. Taking a box price core feature and then putting it behind a timegate isn't.

No MMO gates races like that these days. Most anyway. It's usually included with a DLC/expansion box price. The only BS WoW hasn't pulled yet is doing it with classes. Because they know that shit wouldn't work. Although I'm sure people on this site would somehow defend that.

[Raysz]

Really? We had to grind races since Vanilla? Last I remember Draenei, Goblins, Worgen, Blood Elves and Pandaren all came with the expansion box price to be created freely. Not timegated in game.

And the game had plenty to grind regardless.

No MMO gates races like that these days. Most anyway. It's usually included with a DLC/expansion box price. The only BS WoW hasn't pulled yet is doing it with classes. Because they know that shit wouldn't work.

No we didn't have to grind races in Vanilla, as there were none to grind for. Last you remember? Things can change. You are complaining about a grind when I said that grinds are part of the core of mmo's. Yeah, they could have worded it better perhaps, but complaining about having to grind reputation for a new race is silly at best.

Do people really have nothing better to do than complain about having to grind for a new race? It's not even a big grind.

[tripleh]

Bad thing with allied races, is that we probably won't ever get any new race that isn't an allied one. So pretty much stuck grinding for any new race that comes out. They got players excited at first with allied races, but it changes future releases now. Because you have to unlock them. No more buying an expansion just to play a race. Soon next they might even try "Allied Classes" . Which could require unlocking them as well.

[Eleccybubb]

Bad thing with allied races, is that we probably won't ever get any new race that isn't an allied one. So pretty much stuck grinding for any new race that comes out. They got players excited at first with allied races, but it changes future releases now. Because you have to unlock them. No more buying an expansion just to play a race. Soon next they might even try "Allied Classes" . Which could require unlocking them as well.

Exactly.

I mean look at FF14. They just announced Viera which was pretty well received. Do I have to spend around a month or so grinding in game to get them?

Nope. I get Viera when I buy Shadowbringers and it releases.

And hell technically Kul Tiran and Zandalar are being timegated now. Because the War Campaign is done and after 6 months I'd be surprised if people aren't exalted. So Timegating is literally a requirement lol.

And if they do "Allied Classes" then I'm 100% done.

[Nathasil]

Exactly.

I mean look at FF14. They just announced Viera which was pretty well received. Do I have to spend around a month or so grinding in game to get them?

Nope. I get Viera when I buy Shadowbringers and it releases.

And hell technically Kul Tiran and Zandalar are being timegated now. Because the War Campaign is done and after 6 months I'd be surprised if people aren't exalted. So Timegating is literally a requirement lol.

And if they do "Allied Classes" then I'm 100% done.

To be fair....FF14ARR is in its 5th-6ths year...that would have been 2009 for WoW. Cataclysm released that year, adding TWO new races.
Also, FF14ARR has 6 races (in 2 colors each) - WoW had already 10 distinct, unique playable races before Cata.

So i think WoW flat out steamrolls FF14 in the reagrd of races. Even if you hate WoW and love FF14 you gotta admit that.

Also, if they added the ARs we got so far as "std new races" people would have bithced and moand how they are not unique enough and just copy/paste trash.

Having said that....i hope they burry the concept of ARs and return to adding real new races very 2nd-3rd expansion. I still believe AR are just a cash-grab to drive players into the shop for race changes and nothing more.

[Eleccybubb]

To be fair....FF14ARR is in its 5th-6ths year...that would have been 2009 for WoW. Cataclysm released that year, adding TWO new races.
Also, FF14ARR has 6 races (in 2 colors each) - WoW had already 10 distinct, unique playable races before Cata.

So i think WoW flat out steamrolls FF14 in the reagrd of races. Even if you hate WoW and love FF14 you gotta admit that.

Also, if they added the ARs we got so far as "std new races" people would have bithced and moand how they are not unique enough and just copy/paste trash.

Having said that....i hope they burry the concept of ARs and return to adding real new races very 2nd-3rd expansion. I still believe AR are just a cash-grab to drive players into the shop for race changes and nothing more.

Oh absolutely. My main point was that currently other options I just buy the xpac and get the race... ironically how I used to with WoW.

[Nightheart]

Well first off. @Title No duh.

Second, I agree with you on the Allied Races and how they are unlocked. I hate the fact that Blizz is making alliance work hard for the races while Horde sit on their asses and are just given them. I am also kinda tired of waiting for a race that was promised in 2017, and in 8.1, only to have them pushed back. It feels like a ploy to just keep people Subscribed. Hence why I stopped playing the game. Between the game not being fun, and the fact that we wont be getting the 2 new allied races till likely late match, early April if we are lucky.

[Mardux]

The assumption is probably that people logging in actually want to oh I don't know... play the game?
The forum "community" merely represents a tiny minority. The constant anti-WoW saps an even smaller one.

Luckily, if they buy the game and pay the sub fee there is nothing stopping them from logging in and oh i don't know... playing the game.

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Oh absolutely. My main point was that currently other options I just buy the xpac and get the race... ironically how I used to with WoW.

I remember buying a new license with wrath and immediately being ble to make a dk.

/s

[Eleccybubb]

Luckily, if they buy the game and pay the sub fee there is nothing stopping them from logging in and oh i don't know... playing the game.

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I remember buying a new license with wrath and immediately being ble to make a dk.

/s

Yeah and you only had to level to 55 for it due to it not starting at level 1. If anything that's good design because then at 55 you can decide if you want to make the Hero Class or keep on with your current character without losing any real progress. Hell Demon Hunter is actually better because it only requires a 70 and starts at 98. That class literally lets you jump essentially 30 levels ahead upon hitting 70 if you want.

That's clever. Allied Races are not.

If anything Allied races impede you a hell of a lot. Because if you want to main one you need to spend 100 levels working on it as well as asinine unlock requirements. Hell the 2 upcoming ones are literally being timegated now. There's nothing else to it.

But we all know the system encourages boosting/race changing if anything. And no some quite frankly so-so armor sets are a crap carrot on stick to level for. The only 2 decent ones ingame atm imo are HM Tauren and Mag'har Orc.

Lightforged Draenei have the laziest Allied Race armor set ever. It's just the Unsullied gear.

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Well first off. @Title No duh.

Second, I agree with you on the Allied Races and how they are unlocked. I hate the fact that Blizz is making alliance work hard for the races while Horde sit on their asses and are just given them. I am also kinda tired of waiting for a race that was promised in 2017, and in 8.1, only to have them pushed back. It feels like a ploy to just keep people Subscribed. Hence why I stopped playing the game. Between the game not being fun, and the fact that we wont be getting the 2 new allied races till likely late match, early April if we are lucky.

What?

Both factions have the same unlock requirements. Exalted with factions and certain story elements completed.

I mean I agree it's just a way to keep that MAU count up but I wouldn't say one faction has it a lot easier than the other.

[Nightheart]

They are literally coming out in just w few weeks... Ffs they are not going to suddenly change the story and push them back.

Also znaldari were not because of story, they were because when they decided to add kultiran it made sense to get both a and therefore held them until kultiran were ready, which is now, and noe we just need to wait for the raid to be out on lfr and 8.1.5 to come out shortly after.

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You know like.... Old races you had to race change too right...?
Also y'all rmemeber when dks required new players to level before they could unlock them? Doesent seem to be a problem here.


But last note, since when has it suddenly become so fucking snowflake, that having to play the game for a few weeks to unlock something become. "Blizz forcing up may"
If people are going to play they are going to play, who is seriously going to play ,unlock the race then say "ok bye" those people were going to play anyways, so wtf.

I don't mind sinking time into getting the new races, It really doesn't take long to grind the rep up. However. I have an issue with how the allied races are unlocked when it comes to Alliance and Horde.

Alliance had to do the new rep (The Argus reps) To get their Allied races, and while, It wasn't a big deal, compared to Horde, who practically were given their races cause every smart person had the Highmountain and Nightborne reps at exalted. But again, Those were fine.. To unlock Dark Iron Dwarves however... During the Story to unlock them, You have to do a dungeon, just to unlock them, Meanwhile, horde don't have to do shit in the story to unlock the Mag'har. Oh but that's not a huge deal I hear you say...

For Kul'tiran to be unlocked next patch, Alliance has to do a Mythic only dungeon, just to get an achievement that Horde didn't have to worry about. Horde didn't have to do their mythic dungeon, it wasn't even mythic, you can do it on normal or heroic, but it's not required for the achievement. It feels like Blizz favors horde players and the horde allied races when they don't make people work on one faction to unlock them. The rep isn't hard, and the quests are simple. Horde don't have to do a mythic dungeon. YET FOR ALLIANCE! "Oh you have to complete the mythic dungeon for the Uniting Kul'tiras achievement."

Sooo I have an issue with that, I don't mind putting the work, but when one faction has to do little work over another, it kinda bugs me.

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Yeah and you only had to level to 55 for it due to it not starting at level 1. If anything that's good design because then at 55 you can decide if you want to make the Hero Class or keep on with your current character without losing any real progress. Hell Demon Hunter is actually better because it only requires a 70 and starts at 98. That class literally lets you jump essentially 30 levels ahead upon hitting 70 if you want.

That's clever. Allied Races are not.

If anything Allied races impede you a hell of a lot. Because if you want to main one you need to spend 100 levels working on it as well as asinine unlock requirements. Hell the 2 upcoming ones are literally being timegated now. There's nothing else to it.

But we all know the system encourages boosting/race changing if anything. And no some quite frankly so-so armor sets are a crap carrot on stick to level for. The only 2 decent ones ingame atm imo are HM Tauren and Mag'har Orc.

Lightforged Draenei have the laziest Allied Race armor set ever. It's just the Unsullied gear.

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What?

Both factions have the same unlock requirements. Exalted with factions and certain story elements completed.

I mean I agree it's just a way to keep that MAU count up but I wouldn't say one faction has it a lot easier than the other.

To get Uniting Kul'tiras, you have to complete a mythic only dungeon. While horde, don't need to do the dungeon to get the achievement. That clearly shows one faction has it easier. >.>

[Eleccybubb]

I don't mind sinking time into getting the new races, It really doesn't take long to grind the rep up. However. I have an issue with how the allied races are unlocked when it comes to Alliance and Horde.

Alliance had to do the new rep (The Argus reps) To get their Allied races, and while, It wasn't a big deal, compared to Horde, who practically were given their races cause every smart person had the Highmountain and Nightborne reps at exalted. But again, Those were fine.. To unlock Dark Iron Dwarves however... During the Story to unlock them, You have to do a dungeon, just to unlock them, Meanwhile, horde don't have to do shit in the story to unlock the Mag'har. Oh but that's not a huge deal I hear you say...

For Kul'tiran to be unlocked next patch, Alliance has to do a Mythic only dungeon, just to get an achievement that Horde didn't have to worry about. Horde didn't have to do their mythic dungeon, it wasn't even mythic, you can do it on normal or heroic, but it's not required for the achievement. It feels like Blizz favors horde players and the horde allied races when they don't make people work on one faction to unlock them. The rep isn't hard, and the quests are simple. Horde don't have to do a mythic dungeon. YET FOR ALLIANCE! "Oh you have to complete the mythic dungeon for the Uniting Kul'tiras achievement."

Sooo I have an issue with that, I don't mind putting the work, but when one faction has to do little work over another, it kinda bugs me.

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To get Uniting Kul'tiras, you have to complete a mythic only dungeon. While horde, don't need to do the dungeon to get the achievement. That clearly shows one faction has it easier. >.>

I mean yeah easier but not THAT easier. Mythic Dungeons at this point are easy as hell. If you are struggling to do a Mythic dungeon then sorry but that's on you.

Also I'm pretty sure it's the Horde who have to do Siege of Boralus. Not the Alliance.

[Nightheart]

I mean yeah easier but not THAT easier. Mythic Dungeons at this point are easy as hell. If you are struggling to do a Mythic dungeon then sorry but that's on you.

Also I'm pretty sure it's the Horde who have to do Siege of Boralus. Not the Alliance.

Nooope. Horde don't have to do SHIT to get their Achievement. My dk has all the achievements for the Zandalari to unlock, I didn't have to do any mythic on her. And just because it's easier to do mythic dungeons, doesn't mean it might scare other players off. I could go do the quest, but when the horde don't have to do SHIT for their achievement, Yeah I will pass. And Alliance has to do Siege of Boralus in order to complete Uniting Kul'tiras.

[Eleccybubb]

Nooope. Horde don't have to do SHIT to get their Achievement. My dk has all the achievements for the Zandalari to unlock, I didn't have to do any mythic on her. And just because it's easier to do mythic dungeons, doesn't mean it might scare other players off. I could go do the quest, but when the horde don't have to do SHIT for their achievement, Yeah I will pass. And Alliance has to do Siege of Boralus in order to complete Uniting Kul'tiras.

Then I'm getting it mixed up.

But still it's a Mythic Dungeon. Base Mythic Dungeons are easy as hell. It's really not that harder to do ONE dungeon. And as I said if you are having trouble with Siege of Boralus on Mythic 0 then well.....

And please if a Mythic 0 dungeon "scares players off" as you put it then well I have to question the player themselves when those dungeons literally take about as much effort to do as LFR.

[Nightheart]

Then I'm getting it mixed up.

But still it's a Mythic Dungeon. Base Mythic Dungeons are easy as hell. It's really not that harder to do ONE dungeon. And as I said if you are having trouble with Siege of Boralus on Mythic 0 then well.....

It's not that I am having trouble with it, I could go do it if I truly wanted to. But there is no point. Again Horde have it a lot easier to unlock the Zandalari compared to the Alliance and the Kul'tiran. That is the point I am trying to make here. Some people (Not talking about me) Are turned off to having to do a Mythic only dungeon, Not only to find a group to do it that isn't picky (Because people are very picky these days) But it scares them. If Blizz made it fair for Both Alliance and Horde, I honestly wouldn't have a huge issue with this, but again, the fact that you have to do 1 mythic dungeon to get a stupid achievement to unlock a race, is dumb.

It's not just the kul'tiran though. Spoilers if you haven't done the Dark irons. You have to pretty much drop everything in the story, just to go kill a boss in a dungeon... while again, horde are just given the Mag'har. How does this stuff seem really fair? I am all for putting work into the game, but this is just dumb favoritism.

[Wildberry]

Alliance had to do the new rep (The Argus reps) To get their Allied races, and while, It wasn't a big deal, compared to Horde, who practically were given their races cause every smart person had the Highmountain and Nightborne reps at exalted.

By the time the initial batch of Allied Races were announced, "every smart person" would have similarly had Argussian Reach and Army of the Light at exalted.

To unlock Dark Iron Dwarves however... During the Story to unlock them, You have to do a dungeon, just to unlock them, Meanwhile, horde don't have to do shit in the story to unlock the Mag'har. Oh but that's not a huge deal I hear you say...

You know, I remember when people started unlocking Mag'har and Dark Irons, the Official Forums were filled with complaints from bads and casuals who were crying that they couldn't beat Garrosh, and thus couldn't unlock their Mag'har. I also specifically remember a few complaining that the Alliance didn't have to do any "super punishing solo content."

[Nightheart]

By the time the initial batch of Allied Races were announced, "every smart person" would have similarly had Argussian Reach and Army of the Light at exalted.



You know, I remember when people started unlocking Mag'har and Dark Irons, the Official Forums were filled with complaints from bads and casuals who were crying that they couldn't beat Garrosh, and thus couldn't unlock their Mag'har. I also specifically remember a few complaining that the Alliance didn't have to do any "super punishing solo content."

I had no issues beating Garrosh. Granted I was pretty geared and actually smart. I just think it's dumb to have one faction have to do one more step just to unlock something. Garrosh was easy to solo >.> Idk what those people are talking about lol. Also, the fact that you have to sit in a dungeon que for over an hour as a dps (Because people don't want to tank or heal these days) kinda is a pain. specially over a race.

[Kyr]

I find it ridiculous that I had two HORDE allied races unlocked from the reps acquired on my ALLIANCE character from legion. but since I quit legion early I did not have any alliance allied races unlocked because the alliance equivalent both required the later reps.

where is the logic in having a system for ALLIED RACES that even allows you to unlock the races by playing a character of the opposite faction?