Why do the people that enjoyed Legion not enjoy BfA?

[TJ]

a couple of pieces from bosses that would be harder to kill than bosses in TOC it was pretty much pointless

the only reason why you would do that is for Valanyr

Not at all, Mjolnir could allow MM Hunters, Fury Warriors to go for the ArP softcap and change their gearing, just one example. Algalon and Yogg 0 gear was decent ilvl too.

[Craaazyyy]

Not at all, Mjolnir could allow MM Hunters, Fury Warriors to go for the ArP softcap and change their gearing, just one example. Algalon and Yogg 0 gear was decent ilvl too.

it was 239 ilvl.. normal 25 from ToC had 245

and Yogg 0 was still harder than anything from ToC

also what im saying that you didnt need to go to ulduar to then progress through ToC.. the gear you were getting from dungeons was enough to clear 10 normal TOC

[kamuimac]

This is also something I don't understand.

BfA a just a reskinned Legion, yet Legion is still considered as a good expansion.

because Legion had illidan - so all edgy boys were happy

now that they dont have cool edgy protagonist they are lost and dont like expansion

[Monster Hunter]

Completly lacks deviljho. I just cant have fun in any game that doesn't have a giant pickle monster raping every 5 mins.

Sorry wow you're just old a tierd.

New worlds from amazon looks like its gonna be a fantastic MMO though so here's a glass to sitting out the genera till 2020

[Sonneillon]

Legion's contents crowning success was it's focus on your Character (or more specifically classes), what they referred to as class fantasy. When they added in systems like the obnoxious artifact power grind it was mitigated by cool class specific weapons with lore behind them, fun skins for them, growth. BFA keeps all these systems and removes the unique class/character/spec aspects, the necklace is the same as the artifact weapon... except you don't have anything unique or even VISIBLE about it. Even with gear we have been given the least variety of any expansion in the long history of the game. They even went so far as to remove unique class gear earned in raiding, it's like they actively tried to undo what they succeeded at. Legion's leveling experiences were fantastic because of things like the order halls, now you are left with the same systems, that's just a stationary boat. They made awful choices like you needing to fully finish every zone on your alts out of the gate and the whole rep grind/time gated Nightborne questing experience. Legion isn't without it's flaws but atleast the class fantasy stuff was a step in the right direction... BFA on the other hand is all the bad parts of Legion stripped of anything that made it good. Demon Hunters were atleast a good expansion feature... I'm not sure working to unlock yet having to grind another character with a slightly different skin (even worse so with them STILL not having even released Kul'Tirans and Zandalari) is remotely a good thing. How can an expansion who's core feature is supposedly Sub-races be this alt unfriendly, that is backwards as hell.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

Let's compare BfA to Legion for a moment:
It has the same dungeon systems
It has the same mythic+ systems
It has the same raiding systems
It has the same looting systems
It has the same PvP gearing system
It has the same PvP rank system
It has the same world quest system
It has the same titanforging system

It has, in my opinion, actually has improved PvP gear mattering, added Conquest points and made PvP combat better than Legion.
It has, in my opinion, an improved world, music and quest system.

Most systems have gotten worse and worse for every expansion, making it more and more RNG and never-ending, and things that previously rewarded special rewards, no longer did that in Legion. For example: hitting exalted with a faction rewarded a mount, but in Legion you had to hit exalted about 903893 times until you got that mount(Paragon RNG-chest).

So while many systems are the same in BfA as in Legion, or maybe even improved slightly, I am just getting more and more fed up with it and was hoping for a change, and I think many other people were hoping for that aswell.

So the looting and titanforging systems may be the same, but they are still annoying shitty RNG on top of RNG that has always been there(getting a drop in the first place).
The world quest system is the same, but the rewards are so much worse. Oh, and they made it more of a hassle to group up to clear them out faster. So they both take longer and give out worse rewards.

Was it the Legendary system of Legion what made it so good?
Was it the Artifact weapon - "you do content to get transmog for your artifact weapon" - what made Legion so good?
Was the classes in Legion that much more fun than in BfA?

While I'm not a fan of how we got the legendaries - and that we couldn't just get a token and choose which legendary we got - it is still that kind of gear the game needs more of. I'm not one of those people that start crying as soon as one class is 0.1% better than another class, so items with interesting effects and not just stat sticks was welcomed in my world(of warcraft).

Yes, I really liked the weapon artifacts in the beginning when I would unlock more 'talents' in them, and most weapons looked really nice so it was fun to unlock more appearances and work towards being able to unlock more. But again Blizzard had to ruin it by locking them behind really boring walls while calling it "secrets" and making it seem like they could be found whenever when that wasn't the reality at all.
And yeah; artifacts weapons are 100000000000000000000% more fun than some boring ass artifact necklace.

Yes and no. All classes still have too few abilies. The global cooldown change made it worse though, especially for some classes. And some classes got extremely boring compared to Legion; like shadow priest. I also found my shadow priest unbearable to level. Couldn't pull more than 2 mobs without the risk of almost dying and needing a lot of downtime, and it's supposed to be a multi-dot class. I've not had this problem with any other class I've leveled in BfA so far.

The only things left to blame is the NEW systems. Namely
1. Azerite Armor system
2. Island Expeditions
3. War mode
4. Warfront

1) Azerite armor is 'meh' to me. Not interesting enough.
2) Too RNG and low drop chance. It's like Timeless Isle, which I hate because of the low drop rates behind too RNG respawn timers of rares that now gets one-shotted so all your time camping can end up being for nothing. In older expansions there were like 1 super rare mob that dropped a mount or so, so there wasn't much to camp, so it wasn't that bad.
I wouldn't mind IE if all the mounts, pets and transmog you could get from there would also be for sale for currency on a vendor.
3) Too imbalanced. They need to make WoW world pvp FFA if they want it to be successful.
4) Warfronts fail because you can't lose. It's boring when as soon as something require 1% of your brain to be active, you need to make a premade group in WoW nowadays.

-
Legion also had class halls stories for each and every class. That added a lot for me. In BfA we don't have that, and on top of it we don't have a Suramar zone with a really immersive gigantic chain-quest storyline with a really immersive, beautiful Suramar City. We also only have 3 zones per faction, as you barely do anything in the 3 zones belonging to the other side.
Professions is another thing I really used to like in this game, but it's so worthless now that world quests rewards too much and too good gear in no time anyway, and because even if you level your professions to max there are 3 ranks with rank 2 and 3 locked behind reputation vendors or world quests, so you can't compete on AH selling the few items from professions people might still care about.

They also stopping doing tier sets for each class, giving all classes of x armor type the same gear set that just looks worse than tier siets from older expansions. The pvp gear sets also look shit, so this is another reason why BfA is worse.

I don't think Legion is the greatest expansion so far. It's better than WotLK, Cata and WoD, but worse than TBC and MoP.

[Craaazyyy]

Legion's contents crowning success was it's focus on your Character (or more specifically classes), what they referred to as class fantasy. When they added in systems like the obnoxious artifact power grind it was mitigated by cool class specific weapons with lore behind them, fun skins for them, growth. BFA keeps all these systems and removes the unique class/character/spec aspects, the necklace is the same as the artifact weapon... except you don't have anything unique or even VISIBLE about it. Even with gear we have been given the least variety of any expansion in the long history of the game. They even went so far as to remove unique class gear earned in raiding, it's like they actively tried to undo what they succeeded at. Legion's leveling experiences were fantastic because of things like the order halls, now you are left with the same systems, that's just a stationary boat. They made awful choices like you needing to fully finish every zone on your alts out of the gate and the whole rep grind/time gated Nightborne questing experience. Legion isn't without it's flaws but atleast the class fantasy stuff was a step in the right direction... BFA on the other hand is all the bad parts of Legion stripped of anything that made it good. Demon Hunters were atleast a good expansion feature... I'm not sure working to unlock yet having to grind another character with a slightly different skin (even worse so with them STILL not having even released Kul'Tirans and Zandalari) is remotely a good thing. How can an expansion who's core feature is supposedly Sub-races be this alt unfriendly, that is backwards as hell.

you mean they succeeded because they gutted the classes? because thats what they did in Legion.. and BFA is the same shit

[Sonneillon]

you mean they succeeded because they gutted the classes? because thats what they did in Legion.. and BFA is the same shit

I'm talking about the heart of the expansion, not the class design. Regardless of how you feel about the classes mechanically did you hate having unique class/spec quests or do you prefer doing the exact same thing on every alt you have over and over? Do you like your character getting the same looking gear repeatedly and unlocking the same artifact traits? Because that's what I'm talking about, not the mere skill trees/abilities. Believe me, I absolutely HATED that I got my Demonology 'Lock all ready for Legion and then they stripped away everything, even the minions I'd grown to like and replaced them with shooting dogs.

[setsuna f seiei]

Legion had:
Class identity
Class mounts
Legos
Tier sets
MOUNTS
Mage Tower
A story you could follow
Trinkets that felt powerful
Master loot

[Craaazyyy]

I'm talking about the heart of the expansion, not the class design. Regardless of how you feel about the classes mechanically did you hate having unique class/spec quests or do you prefer doing the exact same thing on every alt you have over and over? Do you like your character getting the same looking gear repeatedly and unlocking the same artifact traits? Because that's what I'm talking about, not the mere skill trees/abilities. Believe me, I absolutely HATED that I got my Demonology 'Lock all ready for Legion and then they stripped away everything, even the minions I'd grown to like and replaced them with shooting dogs.

i mean i rather have better class design than have some class campaign.. obviously in BFA you have neither of those, but i dont think that not having a class campaign is that big of a deal.. definitely not for me personally

and imo having a class campaign two expansions in a row would be weird

[Coolthulhu]

Better music? Please. They're pitiful short loops repeating at each sub-zone change with no rhyme or reason, BFA is literally unlistenable. That being said, the only thing I liked better about Legion was the artifacts and class halls. But overall, I still think it was a pretty bad expansion.

[Craaazyyy]

Legion had:
Class identity
Class mounts
Legos
Tier sets
MOUNTS
Mage Tower
A story you could follow
Trinkets that felt powerful
Master loot

class identity? as if?

there are also plenty of mounts in BFA what are u talking about

trinkets were dogshit outside of a couple

A story you could follow?? what

legendaries were cool, but the way you were acquiring them sucked

mage tower came later in the expansion, maybe something along those lines will come later in BFA..

agree with everything else

to me BFA is pretty much the same shit.. worse in some ways, better in other ways. Both expansions sucked

[SkyTides]

No more tier sets, classes boring to play, boring azerite system, samey factions (legion had this too)...
BFA has some good things, but it feels somehow emptier compared to Legion - whose Class order halls/mounts/artifact weapon, plus mage tower gave you lots of content.

I still loved MoP the most, but for me Legion was more enjoyable than BfA

[Trumpcat]

Because BfA kept all the unfun things from Legion and removed all the goods.

[setsuna f seiei]

class identity? as if?

there are also plenty of mounts in BFA what are u talking about

trinkets were dogshit outside of a couple

A story you could follow?? what

legendaries were cool, but the way you were acquiring them sucked

mage tower came later in the expansion, maybe something along those lines will come later in BFA..

agree with everything else

to me BFA is pretty much the same shit.. worse in some ways, better in other ways. Both expansions sucked

Class identity? every class had a class hall, every class had a class quest, what would you consider identity?

BFA has mounts yes but Legion had more mounts, I was more pushed to get legion mounts than I am now?

Legion, you knew what was happening, you didnt have to wait 6 months to be spoon fed about bullshit, as a horde play, I legit has 0 idea WTF the alliance are doing in BFA, every thing I've seen on the PRT seems to be horde focused, wtf are the alliance doing, what is their story? In legion, you knew what was going on, it was there.

Lego's where cool, getting them wasnt but you felt good with them.

They said if they added mage tower, every expan would need one so they want something else. you saw mage tower rewards at Blizcon BEFORE legion was released, BFA selling point was / is IE and soon to be heroic warfront pvp AI

BFA is alt friendly, I'll give them that but I'm pretty sure 12 months from now people will forget what they hated because they've been doing it so much.

It's like when you / your kid sit's in their room all weekend smelling like gym socks but they can't smell it because they've been in there so long.

[Osmeric]

My big complaint with azerite is I become dependent on websites to tell me what which choices are good and which suck. This isn't fun.

It's like "hi, we're giving you ample opportunity to make choices that are bad and make you look stupid, and we're going to keep doing that over and over the whole expansion!"

It's like the old talent trees, only worse.

Contrast this to Legion, where there were fewer choices (basically, which legendaries do I equip, and which other gear to get the best secondary stats?) The good legendaries really didn't change much of the expansion. One could play the game rather than having to constantly sim things.

[Sanshou]

Long thread so I guess most of my views have already been aired:

Legion had large number of good concepts, which is why the release and following patches were all hailed as great successes. BFA took a large number of the good parts of legion (world quests/M+/Emissary) and changed them slightly for the worse. Skills were simplified again (hey guys, back to a 3 button rotation) and Crafting was simplified/made basic and none engaging once again. The overarching storyline is far weaker than legion (some of the zones are awesome tho), they also haven't got anything half as interesting as the liberation of Suramar arc.

By all means, I don't think BFA is bad (islands are warfronts are great additions). Its just being compared to legion, which IMO was better.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

A big one for me is I felt even leveling my character that I was fundamentally depowering it. My weapon lost all its power so 2-3 abilities gone. Tons of passive stuff gone. I replace tier sets with azerite pieces that felt under rewarding and eventually just had to regrind the same stats over and over again with it. Legendary items stopped working with no real replacement. Then the normal start of expansion stat reset on top of it that just kinda has to happen every expansion on top of it. Everything but the level number was going downhill. Then at max level I had to grind a neck to, again, unlock the same old traits again and have it stop me from using better gear I earned if I hadn't. Or accept weaker traits because the stat stick part of it was just overwhelmingly powerful. Then the new tier comes out and they power creep the neck up again after making azerite pieces even more important. So the whole damn thing swirls around this very under rewarding neck level that really doesnt matter itself outside of what it does for other items and that is held behind a massive time gate or 24/7 level Method grind to get while it matters most, progression.

I get that they plan to fix this azerite bit. But these are problems I saw being posted about in beta and were firmly ignored because the release date mattered more than the game itself. I mean we didn't want to compete with Destiny or CoD. Best to release trash now and fix it a year later mentality kind of makes me sick. A month later? Few weeks later? Ok, go ahead. But right now its looking to be close to a year in "promise" terms which Shamans can like testify to not meaning much these days.

[Sonneillon]

A big one for me is I felt even leveling my character that I was fundamentally depowering it. My weapon lost all its power so 2-3 abilities gone. Tons of passive stuff gone. I replace tier sets with azerite pieces that felt under rewarding and eventually just had to regrind the same stats over and over again with it. Legendary items stopped working with no real replacement. Then the normal start of expansion stat reset on top of it that just kinda has to happen every expansion on top of it. Everything but the level number was going downhill. Then at max level I had to grind a neck to, again, unlock the same old traits again and have it stop me from using better gear I earned if I hadn't. Or accept weaker traits because the stat stick part of it was just overwhelmingly powerful. Then the new tier comes out and they power creep the neck up again after making azerite pieces even more important. So the whole damn thing swirls around this very under rewarding neck level that really doesnt matter itself outside of what it does for other items and that is held behind a massive time gate or 24/7 level Method grind to get while it matters most, progression.

I get that they plan to fix this azerite bit. But these are problems I saw being posted about in beta and were firmly ignored because the release date mattered more than the game itself. I mean we didn't want to compete with Destiny or CoD. Best to release trash now and fix it a year later mentality kind of makes me sick. A month later? Few weeks later? Ok, go ahead. But right now its looking to be close to a year in "promise" terms which Shamans can like testify to not meaning much these days.

Yeah, I'll agree with that. The entire leveling experience you do feel weaker and weaker and everything progress wise feels more and more meaningless. Even in terms of what your character looks like through progression, it's just stagnant. My warrior felt depowered by the time I hit 120 and I needed to start the Ilvl (but all the gear looks like what I already have) grind.

[kubaje]

...


Let's compare BfA to Legion for a moment:
1. It has the same dungeon systems - still meaningless
2. It has the same mythic+ systems - still the same affixes
3. It has the same raiding systems - fewer bosses, no tier sets
4. It has the same looting systems - forced personal loot
5. It has the same PvP gearing system - no vendors at all, no real elite gear
6. It has the same PvP rank system - highly inflated rating, destroyed the prestige/value of gladiator title
7. It has the same world quest system - still extremely boring, had better (potential) rewards in legion with possible legendaries
8. It has the same titanforging system - still the stupid system everyone complains about

...

Well, I highlighted the issues. BfA is nothing more than a worse legion. Bad systems were carried over and partially even made worse. Idc how anyone can think BfA is better when there is basically nothing that has been improved upon.

In addition to what I highlighted above, classes feel worse than in legion, where we basically had the old talent system with the artifact weapons and ofc the horrible reward system, where your progress is completely trashed after 3 months.

Of those 8 points 8 got worse or stayed bad + class design + reward structure. 10 fucking reasons why BfA is worse than Legion. Thanks Blizzard.