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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    It also isn't uncommon to no longer enjoy things from your childhood to the same degree as an adult.
    Well I can agree with that to some degree, but to be fair I still enjoy all the same cartoons I did as a kid today haha.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Weeps View Post
    It is the best expansion in my opinion (Legion).

    The only gripe people had about Legion was 2 things.

    1) Legendary drop system which was corrected towards the end to a Token System. If it were a token system from day 1, it would've been much more AMAZING.

    2) The AP grind and having to go in and physically submit AK. But all of this was rendered negligible as Blizzard made AK an automatic weekly upgrade, like it is in BFA right now. AP became stupid easy to farm so it wasn't needed after a certain amount of points.

    PVP was fun as fuck, doing those WQs.
    The AP grind was only an issue for a small number of people and has never been this widely discussed as some issues with BfA have been. As a then-mythic raider, I was never grinding AP specifically and none of the guilds on my server have required that.

    The discussion about the legendaries has also mostly died down shortly after release. I remember that around patch 7.1 most people have stopped talking about it.

    But yeah, also overall the best time I ever had in WoW was also during Legion, but it was during 7.0-7.1.5

  3. #123
    Bloodsail Admiral Fayenoor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Land of Far Beyond
    Things BFA did right:

    1. Got rid of IWIN RNG Legendary crap system from Legion
    2. Balanced the dungeons better for M+ runs.
    3. Put in place better catch up mechanics for alts and offspecs.
    4. Reduced AP grind significantly compare to Legion

    Things BFA did wrong:
    1. No signature feature this expac. Warfronts dont cut it. So it seems like an extension of Legion. Legion had Artifact, WOD Garrisons etc.
    2. Lack of definitive reason to raid; the best loot still drops outside from high level M+ which are often easier to get than loot from raid.
    3. Wow seems to be significantly moving towards a 5-man gaming model and reducing the scope of the larger raid content.
    4. Story seems lukewarm. Uldir was a pretty meh instance. BoD is awesome.
    5. Most of BFA so far seems to be a bridge, intermezzo to something bigger, grander.

    Remember that Legion really took off with the Nighborne campaign and Suramar. And Nighthold was absolutely superbly done. Maybe BFA will take off with what's to come next if and when they do the Black City and Aszhara/Nzoth storyline as has been speculated.
    Last edited by Fayenoor; 2019-02-11 at 05:08 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The main function of Mythic mode for most players is to act as a reminder that, compared to that 1%, they suck.

  4. #124
    As someone who enjoyed Legion, except horrific class balance and how Death Knights had horrible class mechanics:

    - Legion had more interesting story and theme. BfA has almost no story and the faction war narrative is the dumbest and most hamfisted it's ever been.
    - Legion had artifacts - which were much more interesting than Heart of Azeroth and Azerite Armor. They had cool visuals, a collection mechanic, quests and lore.
    - Legion had Suramar. The zone and campaign had more content and was more interesting than the war campaign.
    - World Quests and Invasions were a new kind of content.
    - Mythic Dungeons introduced a new system.
    - Legion dungeons were not trashfests. BfA dungeons are so trash heavy they made me not want to do Mythic Dungeons at all.
    - Class mechanics are so terrible and obviously left to rot that it's almost impossible to enjoy even the interesting content of BfA.
    - BfA seems to treat the player as a spectator to the cast of NPCs acting out the story. Legion had the player fighting alongside NPCs - this time around we're errand boys, minions and spectators.

    BfA has Islands as the single new system, and they are not much more than a MoP scenario with randomized trash. The time element is a terrible fit for a new system of randomly generated content - and I suspect it's there simply to mask how shallow the "random" element is. Warfronts are just plain old scenarios - extremely long escort quests that you can't fail.

    I think calling BfA a reskinned Legion is not really accurate. It's worse on almost every level and it's a shame, because I strongly suspect that this was caused by Blizzard simply not allocating enough developers to the project. Whether they put them on other game projects or Classic is far more of a resource sink than they are willing to admit, doesn't really matter in the end.

    Legion had so many good things I could accept the ugly parts (class design and mechanics - slow and sparse content update schedules). BfA is so horrible, that I am not sure if they can bring me back with even awesome patches.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Weeps View Post
    Legion class design was much better, especially regarding the GCD.
    It was better but it wasn't much better. Sure, GCD changes are complete shit. But so were the Legion class "overhauls". It's what happens when some devs decide to throw 12 years of class development in the garbage can and start anew. Classes in Legion felt like you were stuck in low level for the entirety of the expansion. BfA is no different in that regard. Specs are boring and mindless, there's no meaningful interaction between abilities, no interesting mechanics... not even interesting spells.

    I think players were really hoping for Blizzard to build on the pruned specs to give them at least some semblance of depth but they simply did nothing with the classes (except for removing Artifact Weapons). It's like they don't have a team for class development at this point.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzael View Post
    am i misremembering or wasnt legion also considered bad until late in the xpac?
    It was. Every expansion is considered terrible until the next one comes out.

  7. #127
    Legion wasn't good because of those systems, it was good inspite of those systems. Remove everything good about Legion and you have BfA.

  8. #128
    social media

    social media makes people think things that they wouldn't necessarily think, if they read too much of the hive mind's opinion, from people they somewhat relate to, tied to age or hobbies

  9. #129
    The only good things WoD added where, bonus objectives while questing, scenarios that made sense, and gold, BfA hasnt so far added absolutely nothing remarkable

  10. #130
    For me, I found BFA way too grindy. Gotta grind for new races, gotta grind to unlock the same traits over and over, gotta grind reps (as usual but still). There is nothing to look forward to really. You grind to re-unlock what you already unlocked. I was not a fan of the netherlight crucible and it is basically the basis for the azerite armor.

    I don't find island expeditions or warfronts particularly fun either.

    Also, as an enh sham, I don't find my spec to be the worst state it ever was, IMO it was worst in legion beta and launch (before they put back WF from 5% to it's iconic 20%)... but for me, the last straw was when they kept saying there would be good changes in a futur patch, then we got a number tuning (could of been done through hotfix) which did not even change our talent choices. Now they say that it will need to wait for the next expac.

    Legion had the artifacts which gave you 1 new ability per spec and multiple passives. It had legendaries that had interesting effects. BFA has traits that are massively passive and generic. So we basically went from legion to BFA and LOST abilities. It's so boring that they are reverting the HoA to behave like the artifact of legion but with more active abilities. That is saying a lot. I'll see what happens at that point. I sitll have 2 month tokens on my account and intend to use them for 8.2 should the changes be appealing.

  11. #131
    I enjoy BFA mostly because of M+ but the common complaints I hear are the following:

    1. Island expeditions and warfronts are not good enough to be key features of the expansion.
    2. Azerite armor is not very interesting and constantly re unlocking (Changing in 8.2) sucks
    3. Class design is lacking, legions pruning and the loss of the artifact weapons left a lot of classes very bare bones.
    4. This is speculation on my part, but removing class specific armor is a big reason, I think a lot of people enjoyed watching
    and collecting the tier sets for their mains and alts. The limited number of designs coming out in BFA isn't good enough to make
    up for what was lost.

  12. #132
    1. GCD change
    2. Dungeons not as good for m+
    3. Azerite is garbage, I personally think its the worst system wow has ever had
    4. No tier
    5. Not a fan of the first raid
    6. Island expeditions and warfronts are trash
    "All that said, the fiery partisan passion that wells up in my heart watching this, it's a Herculean task trying to tamp it down"-Dacien

    Never forget that Trump supporters feel "fiery partisan passion" when an accused rapist is being forced onto the Supreme court. Deplorable to the end.

  13. #133
    The last time i raided in a Heroic/Mythic guild was in SoO. Since then, i've been a thilty casual unsubing here and there. In legion, the game managed to get my atention for some months, the artifact weapon system wasnt that bad and i pvped here and there, along with some dungeons and mythic dungeons.

    In BFA, did the same as 2 previous expansions, maxed a couple of chars and then... emptyness.. It just felt i had nothing to do of interest at max lvl, so i unsubed shortly after.

    This is at least my personal experience.

  14. #134
    Also I'll add that a lot of my not having fun does have to do with the fact my personal class just doesn't feel good to play anymore (Frost Death Knight).

  15. #135
    Simple answer. Legion was much better than WoD. So it was considered good by contrast. BfA took legion and made it less rewarding, got rid of ML, got rid of tier, made m+ dungeons way more generic and similar (for their dumb competition), simplified shit AP into an even shittier version, etc. Added shit playtime metric scenarios.

    Claiming looting is the same is one of the dumbest statements I've ever seen btw...

    They took something good by contrast ( not the same as good overall) and made it worse.
    Last edited by Maquegyver; 2019-02-11 at 05:35 PM.

  16. #136
    Sialina, as far as it goes for me, and perhaps those who main shams and hunters, I kinda do like the new direction they are taking. Every tier raid, I only have 2 sets to look forward to. Compared to 3 for cloth and plate and 4 for leather. The new tier sets IMO feel more fair. I can understand they frustration tho... but considering I dislike most of the hunter sets, I wasn't angry at them for going this direction. For me, it means more sets. For others, it means less.

    My biggest bummer is I would of loved to have an emerald nightmare themed set .

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    This is also something I don't understand.

    BfA a just a reskinned Legion, yet Legion is still considered as a good expansion.
    Considered by many as the best one

  18. #138
    the hivemind told them that they won't enjoy it so they don't.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    Me, personally have not enjoyed this game in a LONG time. I believe it has been bad since WotLK. I am, however, confused why people seem to love Legion and hate BfA.

    Let's compare BfA to Legion for a moment:
    It has the same dungeon systems
    It has the same mythic+ systems
    It has the same raiding systems
    It has the same looting systems
    It has the same PvP gearing system
    It has the same PvP rank system
    It has the same world quest system
    It has the same titanforging system

    It has, in my opinion, actually has improved PvP gear mattering, added Conquest points and made PvP combat better than Legion.
    It has, in my opinion, an improved world, music and quest system.

    My understanding has been that a lot of people concidered Legion as "best expansion ever" and that those same people (could be wrong) conciders BfA as the "worst expansion ever".

    Assuming Blizzard beleved you guys, and Legion was actually the best WoW has ever been. What exectly is so much worse in BfA than Legion?

    Was it the Legendary system of Legion what made it so good?
    Was it the Artifact weapon - "you do content to get transmog for your artifact weapon" - what made Legion so good?
    Was the classes in Legion that much more fun than in BfA?

    The only things left to blame is the NEW systems. Namely
    1. Azerite Armor system
    2. Island Expeditions
    3. War mode
    4. Warfront

    Blizzard seem to be in the same boat as you guys, they look at Legion as the greatest expansion ever. So they only compare Legion to BfA in order to "fix the game". They spend all their energy on the above 4 systems...

    If they "fix" all these systems, do you honestly think the game will suddenly be fun?
    A few things added excitement to Legion. The legendary system meant that there was always potential to get a really special piece of gear from doing a random dungeon, emissary quest, etc. Even if you already had your two best some of the legendaries changed up gameplay in fun ways. The other system was the artifact weapons, which felt more rewarding when leveling up.

  20. #140
    Scarab Lord Nnyco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzael View Post
    am i misremembering or wasnt legion also considered bad until late in the xpac?
    It was good from the start, the only people that QQ'd were the ones that wanted their bis legendary now now NOW and spammed maw of souls hundreds of times just to get their weapon slightly higher than average.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

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