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  1. #1

    America Wants Legal Immigrants



    This is a great watch, I agree 100%.

  2. #2
    Elemental Lord Captain N's Avatar
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    Oh look Prager U video -- this certainly isn't going to be a right wing propaganda piece at all.
    "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life."
    - Jean-Luc Picard
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”
    ― Malcolm X, By Any Means Necessary

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    Oh look Prager U video -- this certainly isn't going to be a right wing propaganda piece at all.
    Watch it and tell me what you disagree with.

  4. #4
    Elemental Lord Captain N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psiko74 View Post
    Watch it and tell me what you disagree with.
    You mean where it starts with either Strict Restrictions or Open Borders?

    Can you show me outside of right-wing bullshit where people want open borders?
    "It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, that is life."
    - Jean-Luc Picard
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”
    ― Malcolm X, By Any Means Necessary

  5. #5
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by psiko74 View Post
    Watch it and tell me what you disagree with.
    I may or may not ultimately agree with a lot of the points, but I still hesitate to give Prager U views because of the things they generally post.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by psiko74 View Post
    Watch it and tell me what you disagree with.
    Rather not have my recommended feed be flooded with "Ben Shapiro SKULL FUCKS libtards with LOGIC" type videos tyvm.

  7. #7
    PragerU garbage.

    The issue with the immigration topic is the right has made people believe it's legal immigration vs open border when in reality, Democrats have been pushing for reform to the immigration system to make it less of the bureacratic nightmare it currently is where legitimate immigrants get lost in the system.

    I can't recall anyone saying we need to fully open our border, but asking for more immigration judges to file claims faster, less discrimination against immigrants, pro security in ways that are actually efficient, and punishment of American companies who employ illegal labor. Even when it comes to sanctuary cities, those came about as a way to protect all immigrants from harassment and to force the federal government to deal with the problem if they want it fixed instead of mandating state resources be allocated to a federal project.

    The amount of Fox drones that tell me I'm pro open border because I don't support a fucking wall is mind boggling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    PragerU garbage.

    The issue with the immigration topic is the right has made people believe it's legal immigration vs open border when in reality, Democrats have been pushing for reform to the immigration system to make it less of the bureacratic nightmare it currently is where legitimate immigrants get lost in the system.

    I can't recall anyone saying we need to fully open our border, but asking for more immigration judges to file claims faster, less discrimination against immigrants, pro security in ways that are actually efficient, and punishment of American companies who employ illegal labor. Even when it comes to sanctuary cities, those came about as a way to protect all immigrants from harassment and to force the federal government to deal with the problem if they want it fixed instead of mandating state resources be allocated to a federal project.

    The amount of Fox drones that tell me I'm pro open border because I don't support a fucking wall is mind boggling.
    What if immigration was reformed and became a merit based system?

  9. #9
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    "We're often presented with two stark choices; severe restrictions, or open borders".

    Fuck off, you dishonest sack of shit video author. Right there, in your opener, you've introduced an outright fucking lie, because you can't argue against the actual truth.

    The only people who think it's about "severe restrictions vs open borders" are far-right ideologues who've never made any appreciable effort to actually look into the issue in any detail whatsoever, and are blindly parroting stupid and misleading propaganda.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by psiko74 View Post
    What if immigration was reformed and became a merit based system?
    FWIW, this solves nothing. Everyone agrees that immigration needs to let in "good" immigrants and find ways to block "bad" immigrants. The problem with any merit-based system is that there's no agreement on what counts as "merit" in the first place, which is the root of the entire argument.

    Any such suggestion either misses what the debate is actually about, or it's an attempt to curry false favor for their "side" by pretending they're the ones concerned with "merit" and the other guys aren't.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by psiko74 View Post
    What if immigration was reformed and became a merit based system?
    The merit based system would have to make sure fairness and non bias was applied in every decision, along with a relative scale. A problem I've seen with the merit system suggested is the scale is often based on measurements less attainable by people from Latin American countries and instead focused on metrics based around European and predominantly Scandinavian countries + Canada that have higher average metrics and "merits" than the majority of Americans themselves.

    There's nothing wrong with a relative metric system that could be streamlined, in theory, but I've rarely seen a truly fair merit system advocated for. The merit system ends up being one of those good ideas in practice but is ruined by bias and would likely never work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by psiko74 View Post
    Watch it and tell me what you disagree with.
    1. "Right now immigration doesn't work for the USA"

    Says who? Almost every official statistic I've seen shows that immigration is working great for keeping the economy and businesses afloat. You could argue that the economy and business being kept afloat doesn't necessarily mean it increases the livelihood, welness and happiness of the population, BUT in the USA the narrative that happy business & economy = happy people is very strong. There seems to be a bit of a contradiction in ideology there among the right.


    2. The case for Open Borders


    Strawman. I don't know any political movement with relevant weight that pushes towards that, despite it also being a very american value (eg: Statue of Liberty).


    3. "Americans pay taxes so that the poorest and unluckiest amongst us can still lead happy and dignified lives."

    Has this guy been living under a rock? Americans pay very little taxes and there is a constant push from the right to lower those as well as cutting the very minimal and marginal social welfare services the USA has. The USA is very underdeveloped when it comes to social welfare platforms... You guys don't even have universal healthcare, happier to let people die on the streets than to give them any aid.

    4. Low skill immigrants take up more resources from the system than they put into it.

    I don't know. Still waiting to see Trump's tax returns.

    More serious answer though: Yes and no. USA doesn't have an extensive social welfare system so it can never really spend all that much on the people who need it. Eg: it's very easy to lose your unemployment cheque in the USA, and only counts for a few months. Secondly, a lot of social welfare is given to large businesses who employ underpaid workers. It's basically the government giving an unnecessary hand-out to big business for no real reason but to:
    a. make it appear as if the social welfare system is under duress
    b. at the same time give money to their crony corporate friends (and receive bribes and campaign money in return for it)


    Other than that, he is basically just arguing for the same policies that have existed the past few decades all the while fighting some imaginary windmill called "open borders".
    We are often struck down easily. However no matter how often beaten, we can't forget the joy we felt during the dispute. The pleasure of stretching our willpower. The pleasure of trying out our own strength. The pleasure of seeing a manifestation of real comradely emotions among friends. The pleasure of seeing the world clearly split into camps of foes and friends. The pleasure of seeing an improvement in our own personality. by Sakae Osugi

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    "We're often presented with two stark choices; severe restrictions, or open borders".

    Fuck off, you dishonest sack of shit video author. Right there, in your opener, you've introduced an outright fucking lie, because you can't argue against the actual truth.

    The only people who think it's about "severe restrictions vs open borders" are far-right ideologues who've never made any appreciable effort to actually look into the issue in any detail whatsoever, and are blindly parroting stupid and misleading propaganda.

    - - - Updated - - -



    FWIW, this solves nothing. Everyone agrees that immigration needs to let in "good" immigrants and find ways to block "bad" immigrants. The problem with any merit-based system is that there's no agreement on what counts as "merit" in the first place, which is the root of the entire argument.

    Any such suggestion either misses what the debate is actually about, or it's an attempt to curry false favor for their "side" by pretending they're the ones concerned with "merit" and the other guys aren't.
    the video explains. we should be allowing more higher paid immigrants in that will pay higher taxes and not need to use government aid.

  13. #13
    oh gee PraguerU where they hand out degrees in online Strawmanning arguments. which is all that bullshit video is about.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by psiko74 View Post
    the video explains. we should be allowing more higher paid immigrants in that will pay higher taxes and not need to use government aid.
    Why is he arguing for immigrants to come and take good paying jobs from Americans?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    "We're often presented with two stark choices; severe restrictions, or open borders".

    Fuck off, you dishonest sack of shit video author. Right there, in your opener, you've introduced an outright fucking lie, because you can't argue against the actual truth.

    The only people who think it's about "severe restrictions vs open borders" are far-right ideologues who've never made any appreciable effort to actually look into the issue in any detail whatsoever, and are blindly parroting stupid and misleading propaganda.

    - - - Updated - - -



    FWIW, this solves nothing. Everyone agrees that immigration needs to let in "good" immigrants and find ways to block "bad" immigrants. The problem with any merit-based system is that there's no agreement on what counts as "merit" in the first place, which is the root of the entire argument.

    Any such suggestion either misses what the debate is actually about, or it's an attempt to curry false favor for their "side" by pretending they're the ones concerned with "merit" and the other guys aren't.
    We can just copy paste Canadas restricted immigrant policies. Wanna bring a relative, be sure you can sustain them for up to 20 years. Proportion of family immigrants is way below that of the US.

    OT: Why restrict family immigrant requests and not just expand skill ones. Its not like there has to be a hard cap.
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  16. #16
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psiko74 View Post
    the video explains. we should be allowing more higher paid immigrants in that will pay higher taxes and not need to use government aid.
    I really don't care what he's getting at. I care that he opening his video with a lie, intended to deceive and mislead his audience.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    PragerU garbage.

    The issue with the immigration topic is the right has made people believe it's legal immigration vs open border when in reality, Democrats have been pushing for reform to the immigration system to make it less of the bureacratic nightmare it currently is where legitimate immigrants get lost in the system.

    I can't recall anyone saying we need to fully open our border, but asking for more immigration judges to file claims faster, less discrimination against immigrants, pro security in ways that are actually efficient, and punishment of American companies who employ illegal labor. Even when it comes to sanctuary cities, those came about as a way to protect all immigrants from harassment and to force the federal government to deal with the problem if they want it fixed instead of mandating state resources be allocated to a federal project.

    The amount of Fox drones that tell me I'm pro open border because I don't support a fucking wall is mind boggling.
    You call others drones but you repeat this garbage. What party is about to cause another shutdown by suddenly limiting the amount of beds ICE can have for felons illegally in the country. Nothing to expedite their deportation or the deportations of the hundreds of thousands of economic migrants making asylum claims that won’t be granted.

    Yes, the Democratic Party is essentially for open borders. How many of its candidates for President have called for abolishing ICE? Didn’t your party change its platform to no longer require citizen applicants speak English.

    But please, continue to call others drones. Do it in a language every citizen doesn’t speak, because fuck desiring communication in a democratic society.

    You’re why democrats lose elections. Now call me a racist or bigot like your programming requires.

  18. #18
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    PragerU garbage.

    The issue with the immigration topic is the right has made people believe it's legal immigration vs open border when in reality, Democrats have been pushing for reform to the immigration system to make it less of the bureacratic nightmare it currently is where legitimate immigrants get lost in the system.

    I can't recall anyone saying we need to fully open our border, but asking for more immigration judges to file claims faster, less discrimination against immigrants, pro security in ways that are actually efficient, and punishment of American companies who employ illegal labor.

    The amount of Fox drones that tell me I'm pro open border because I don't support a fucking wall is mind boggling.
    And that's the problem I have as well. I don't need to watch a video telling me how big a disaster completely open unsecured immigration would be. I already believe that, it's arguing against a stance that I have never held to begin with.

    My stance was, is, and probably will be for the near future "We have a limited amount of money available at any given time for things like border security. That money should be spent, first and foremost, on things like improving the courts, clarifying and simplifying the laws, and increases on the amount, training, and tools available for the people we task with securing the border. It is irresponsible to waste money on a marginally effective project when there are more effective things desperately in need of it."

  19. #19
    The Insane Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    "We're often presented with two stark choices; severe restrictions, or open borders".

    Fuck off, you dishonest sack of shit video author.
    Exactly. And Trump tweeted this very same thing multiple times this weekend alone.

    Even if you were only focusing on the Democrats negotiating in good faith right now, they're offering border security increases in the billions. They are not saying "open borders", they never have, and I don't think they ever will. Neither is anyone on this thread.

  20. #20

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