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  1. #121
    I am Murloc! sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freshouttajail View Post
    The only people allowing this to continue are the players. Nothing will change if the next WoW xpack is "another record breaking first day sale" or if the next EA Star Wars game still sells. Capitalism is quite perfect, if the customers hate the product, the providers will have to adjust or gtfo. The ONLY problem is the stupidity of people who buy shit without educating themsevles.

    Or... maybe the product is not that bad even if you think it is which would explain why people cry but everything still sells several million copies.

    In the end the companies aren't really doing anything wrong or bad, they make a product and the people then decide if it's worth buying or not. There's absolutely nothing forcing anyone to buy these products. Capitalism is not the problem here, it's the customers.
    pretty much this
    how many wow players who knows that bobby kodick hates video games with passion? that he is probably the guy who hates video games the most in world? how many ppl u know even on this website knows any of his many many quotes where he details how much he just hate video games and he see us players as just ppl with lot of money that he needs to suck it out of us ?
    as someone who exist in (currently 3rd) WORST country on earth, i don't blame foreign 1st world countries that f8ck us, egypt was britain b8tch before it became usa, i don't blame the wolf for being a wolf, i blame the sheep for being a f8cking sheep, and if Bobby Kodick get what he deserves tomorrow, another Bobby will come the day after tomorrow, as long ppl are just mindless sheep that consume whatever the media tells them to
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Foosha View Post
    But capitalism IS working. EA and Activision stocks have been plummeting
    How is that working?

    The executives and shareholders still made their record profits and they are the ones making the decision on how these games should be designed.

    Today they're telling Blizzard devs to add more time-gating and microtransactions to their game or else...

    Tomorrow they'll be over at CD Project Red.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sfidt View Post
    You’re absurd. In capitalism the power is in hands of the consumer. If they buy it it means it’s good enough for them to pay for it.
    If you don’t like something you don’t buy it.
    Define consumers: Customers or shareholders?

    Example: Blizzard saw record profits during 2018. How does that explain the falling share prices?
    We are often struck down easily. However no matter how often beaten, we can't forget the joy we felt during the dispute. The pleasure of stretching our willpower. The pleasure of trying out our own strength. The pleasure of seeing a manifestation of real comradely emotions among friends. The pleasure of seeing the world clearly split into camps of foes and friends. The pleasure of seeing an improvement in our own personality. by Sakae Osugi

  3. #123
    Banned Kangodo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Define consumers: Customers or shareholders?

    Example: Blizzard saw record profits during 2018. How does that explain the falling share prices?
    Because in the end it's just a form of art, even though it's massively used it is still just art.
    Investors jumped in because the gaming industry was rising really really hard.
    It's still growing, but the only reason it is growing is thanks to the mobile market. And Blizzard is hardly focussing on the mobile market, the playerbase is even raging because they bring out a mobile-only game.

    https://techstartups.com/2018/05/03/...-games-market/

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Ooid View Post
    I feel it’s more corporatism than capitalism. The desire for unending growth is untenable. Eventually there is no where left to expand.
    Those 2 are one and the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Trump did it so it's good. I put my faith in a strong political figure because I lack self-esteem and feel threatened by a changing world. Whoever stands against him is bad because I do not understand their arguments and I have a simple tribalistic mindset created through the consumption of right-wing media.

  5. #125
    Bloodsail Admiral Sfidt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    How is that working?

    The executives and shareholders still made their record profits and they are the ones making the decision on how these games should be designed.

    Today they're telling Blizzard devs to add more time-gating and microtransactions to their game or else...

    Tomorrow they'll be over at CD Project Red.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Define consumers: Customers or shareholders?

    Example: Blizzard saw record profits during 2018. How does that explain the falling share prices?
    Stock value is not based on what it achieved but on the perception of how well a company can do in the future, unless there is a dividend coming soon. If the prices fall it might indicate that less and less people want to buy them than the people want to sell them - Simple supply and demand. Actiblizz is having terrible press and foggy perspectives thus the stock value falls down.
    Consumers by buying less than supposed to (their profit might be huge but it is still underperforming in comparison of what they thought) give a signal to change. Players backlash after Blizzcon and them butchering their IPs are a factor that the investors interpret as a promise of worse sales in the future.

    Plus the stock is a subiect to emotional moves and big players speculation. It is basic economy here so I wonder why the questions.
    S.H.

  6. #126
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    Sorry, unlike you, I don't pretend to be holier-than-thou.
    "Unlike you". Sorry buddy, you're doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. We're now twins. Also, there's no "pretending" here for either of us. Face your own reality my dude.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Sfidt View Post
    Stock value is not based on what it achieved but on the perception of how well a company can do in the future, unless there is a dividend coming soon. If the prices fall it might indicate that less and less people want to buy them than the people want to sell them - Simple supply and demand. Actiblizz is having terrible press and foggy perspectives thus the stock value falls down.
    Consumers by buying less than supposed to (their profit might be huge but it is still underperforming in comparison of what they thought) give a signal to change. Players backlash after Blizzcon and them butchering their IPs are a factor that the investors interpret as a promise of worse sales in the future.

    Plus the stock is a subiect to emotional moves and big players speculation. It is basic economy here so I wonder why the questions.
    The questions are to make you understand that the people who decide the shitty game design are not the ones who are getting affected by consumers buying less or different products.
    We are often struck down easily. However no matter how often beaten, we can't forget the joy we felt during the dispute. The pleasure of stretching our willpower. The pleasure of trying out our own strength. The pleasure of seeing a manifestation of real comradely emotions among friends. The pleasure of seeing the world clearly split into camps of foes and friends. The pleasure of seeing an improvement in our own personality. by Sakae Osugi

  8. #128
    Bloodsail Admiral Sfidt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    The questions are to make you understand that the people who decide the shitty game design are not the ones who are getting affected by consumers buying less or different products.
    Oh I do understand this but that is the part of being the employee and not the employer.
    S.H.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Sfidt View Post
    Oh I do understand this but that is the part of being the employee and not the employer.
    And the people making the bad decisions should be the ones being affected by the consequences of their decision.

    Which isn't the case.

    Ergo, the criticism of capitalism.
    We are often struck down easily. However no matter how often beaten, we can't forget the joy we felt during the dispute. The pleasure of stretching our willpower. The pleasure of trying out our own strength. The pleasure of seeing a manifestation of real comradely emotions among friends. The pleasure of seeing the world clearly split into camps of foes and friends. The pleasure of seeing an improvement in our own personality. by Sakae Osugi

  10. #130
    Bloodsail Admiral Sfidt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    And the people making the bad decisions should be the ones being affected by the consequences of their decision.

    Which isn't the case.

    Ergo, the criticism of capitalism.
    No, that is criticism of how the world works since beggining and how it will until the end. There are always those who have the power and those who don’t. If workers had the power the company wouldnt even exist or the workes would have soon become CEOs themselves just like in Animal Farm. In any form of collective ownership (Btw public stock is actually this) they only answer to the shareholders just like politicians answer to the voters. Except that company CEOs don’t write the rules as politicians do.
    S.H.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Sfidt View Post
    No, that is criticism of how the world works since beggining and how it will until the end.
    Irrelevant.

    Criticism remains appropriate.

    Else just bring back slavery, corporal punishment, gladiator games and the feudal system too if longevity of malpractice really were an argument.

    Secondly, the notion remains that shareholders and executives being unaffected by their own bad decisions isn't in accordance with the ideas behind capitalism at all, which you can see in this very thread where people keep repeating the idea that "companies should be punished when they produce bad goods".
    Last edited by Rochana; 2019-02-13 at 04:27 PM.
    We are often struck down easily. However no matter how often beaten, we can't forget the joy we felt during the dispute. The pleasure of stretching our willpower. The pleasure of trying out our own strength. The pleasure of seeing a manifestation of real comradely emotions among friends. The pleasure of seeing the world clearly split into camps of foes and friends. The pleasure of seeing an improvement in our own personality. by Sakae Osugi

  12. #132
    Bloodsail Admiral Sfidt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Irrelevant.

    Criticism remains appropriate.

    Else just bring back slavery, corporal punishment, gladiator games and the feudal system too if longevity of malpractice really were an argument.

    Secondly, the notion remains that shareholders and executives being unaffected by their own bad decisions isn't in accordance with the ideas behind capitalism at all, which you can see in this very thread where people keep repeating the idea that "companies should be punished when they produce bad goods".
    Because they will be punished if people actually stopped buying them. For all we know changes in Actiblizz might be happening only partially to stock fall and it could be just connected to long planned reorganisation.

    And no the criticism doesn't remain appropriate and if you don't see difference between slavery and freedom of conctracts then you need help. In capitalism nobody forces you to do anything. Nature might force you to earn your food and find a place to sleep but it's nobody's fault that human body works this way it works.
    Slavery and corporal punishment and feudal system is all wrong but it's wrong because it uses VIOLENCE to make people do shit. It's against NAP and so it's evil.

    Also realise that these 8600 people wouldn't even have work in the company in the first place if it were not for capitalism and private property. Also video games wouldn't even be what they are in this world if they would exist at all.
    Capitalism is not the cure-for-all wonder. But it's the best and only ethical system which causes the least problems when actually compared to all other.
    S.H.

  13. #133
    Elemental Lord Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sfidt View Post
    Also realise that these 8600 people wouldn't even have work in the company in the first place if it were not for capitalism and private property.
    Looking at the glass half full now.

    Also video games wouldn't even be what they are in this world if they would exist at all.
    Lots of totally free games have been made and became very popular without the need of capitalism. They're not AAA games but some have gotten popular enough that it's worth mentioning. Doki Doki Literature Club is a recent one, and there's Delta Rune which is like the sequel to Undertale. Going back in time there's Counter Strike 1.6, Natural Selection, and a number of other Half Life mods, though they do require Half Life a paid for game. Ironically John Carmack has released the source code to Quake 1, Quake 2, Quake 3, and Doom 3 so anyone could just make free games with those, and they have.

    Gaming certainly would have existed without capitalism but we probably wouldn't have games like Assassin's Creed Odyssey, which may not be a bad thing considering lots of modern games are filled with microtransactions... like Odyssey.
    Capitalism is not the cure-for-all wonder. But it's the best and only ethical system which causes the least problems when actually compared to all other.
    Capitalism is a problematic method to encourage people to do things, and it absolutely needs to be regulated. Capitalism's end game goal is to eradicate democracy as the will of the people always conflicts with profit making. Silly things like worker rights, better pay, and environmental protection all get in the way of profit making. Capitalism brings out the greed in people and one thing we should all be aware of is the extent people are willing to go to make money. A town near where I live has a place where Ford Motor Company has dumped toxic chemicals which has forever tainted the land the people live on.

    There's a reason why many people like myself believe that eventually automation brought about by capitalism will end capitalism. The eventually greed of people knows no bounds. AAA gaming companies will not stop making games with DLC's and microtransactions until they go out of business. Remember this rule in that, THE GREEDIER YOU GET THE MORE LIKELY YOU'LL LOSE EVERYTHING. This is something I've observed many times with anyone person or company. At some point Indie developers will make better more popular games while EA, Blizzard, and etc will have such a horrible reputation that they couldn't even give away their games, assuming with microtransactions.

    Fear capitalism for it is not your friend.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    Those 2 are one and the same.
    Capitalism and corporatism are the same just as socialism and communism are the same.

  15. #135
    Bloodsail Admiral Sfidt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Looking at the glass half full now.

    snap
    Man, there is a reason why people are even able to afford living in a society we live in now and have a personal computer at home which allows them to play these games. People produce stuff to earn money so that you can have a nice home with water, electricity, Internet and a PC to fap to everyday and write bullshit like this on a forum. Of course some people are going to do stuff as hobbies and do it for free. But it usually stops being free when it's necessary to put a lot of money in it first (unless you can afford this which means you had to earn the money so at least you had the incentive to make fucking money furst so you can do shit for free later on)
    Protip, this reason is not socialism and redistribution of wealth by the government. Also democracy is the worst possible system and it has never in the history worked like it works now with popular vote. It's also possibly the most expensive, wasteful, unethical and obscured system ever. The state itself is a fucking disaster and a crime against humanity but democracy is even worse than dictatorship because then you at least people stop pretending to be governing themself.

    You are swaying to the topic of how stuff rolled back in ages long gone. The factors why some stuff happened are many and it's not the place to discuss shit dating back even to the ancient times and how human societes started and at what point the White civilization has been during transition to market economy and why some of that stuff happened. That video is not historic-scientific material. It's all biased and positivist, applying author's values to cherrypicked facts about some events that have many more background to look into and I'm not going to write about every single of his anecdotes here.
    Also the fact that something happened in the past is not a proof that it will happen in the future. It might hint that it is possible or why has it happened but apriorically and by applying logic you cannot hold these statements true in all cases. Also nobody says bad shit doesn't happen in an anarchy or capitalism. But all other options are even worse.
    S.H.

  16. #136
    A huge wall full of manchild toys was an excellent choice to start his anti-capitalism video with. I wonder how many boglins a month the glorious planned economy would deign to ration him.

  17. #137
    Elemental Lord Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sfidt View Post
    Of course some people are going to do stuff as hobbies and do it for free.
    It's usually how it gets started. Like some Blizzard employees are fans of Blizzards games and got employment doing the things they love.

    But it usually stops being free when it's necessary to put a lot of money in it first (unless you can afford this which means you had to earn the money so at least you had the incentive to make fucking money furst so you can do shit for free later on)
    Eat or starve is probably why prostitution is also a thing, doesn't mean we should be proud of it. Toby Fox the creator of Undertale was already making games like Undertale for some time, but financially needed money and so Undertale was made. A lot of stuff he made before including music was put into Undertale, stuff he had already made available for free.
    Also democracy is the worst possible system and it has never in the history worked like it works now with popular vote. It's also possibly the most expensive, wasteful, unethical and obscured system ever. The state itself is a fucking disaster and a crime against humanity but democracy is even worse than dictatorship because then you at least people stop pretending to be governing themself.
    I heard socialism never worked and that we shouldn't explore that at all. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Democracy isn't efficient but it's a lot better than a Monarch who always rules in the aristocrats favor. The problem with modern Democracy is that it functions a lot like a monarch, but under the guise of a democracy. Money in politics is usually the problem, or capitalism in politics.
    That video is not historic-scientific material. It's all biased and positivist, applying author's values to cherrypicked facts about some events that have many more background to look into and I'm not going to write about every single of his anecdotes here.
    So you're saying that people didn't work 12 hours a day, had maybe 1 day off from work, and died often from their job along with low pay? If this did happen then who is responsible for this?

    So who's responsible for Blizzard firing 800 workers to boost their stock value? Blizzard has been making terrible games lately and now they're short 800 employees to make games. This is clearly capitalism's fault here. In a year from now Blizzard will have made mobile games that nobody plays but they did it to please the investors and not the consumers. Short term profit but not a long term solution.
    Also the fact that something happened in the past is not a proof that it will happen in the future. It might hint that it is possible or why has it happened but apriorically and by applying logic you cannot hold these statements true in all cases. Also nobody says bad shit doesn't happen in an anarchy or capitalism. But all other options are even worse.
    That's why we learn from history, to make sure it doesn't happen again. If AAA gaming does crash then it's a remake of what happened after ET for the Atari was released. It isn't that bad yet, but it kinda seems like that's where we're going. Though the gaming industry crashed in the early 80's cause they made low effort games that basically looked like something we've seen a hundred times. If the AAA gaming industry crashes today it's because of low effort games that aren't complete and have microtransactions.

    Not everything repeats with capitalism but it sure tries really hard to bring back the good old days.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Helryx View Post
    A huge wall full of manchild toys was an excellent choice to start his anti-capitalism video with. I wonder how many boglins a month the glorious planned economy would deign to ration him.
    It would be much more mature of him to have things like alcohol, cigarettes, and of course Apple products like all the mature people.
    Last edited by Vash The Stampede; 2019-02-14 at 12:24 AM.

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