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  1. #81
    Mechagnome Pakheth's Avatar
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    Also forget to mention BfA got RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG which I absolutely loathe.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by imunreal View Post

    Read my comment above. I could be wrong on this, as I am not long up and still half sleeping, but I am 99% sure you are using “whom” incorrectly.
    Probably. Difference is I didn't criticize him for spelling or using grammar incorrectly. I criticized him for quoting me incorrectly and saying I said something anyone with a quarter of a sheeps brain could see I never said. There's a massive difference. I also didn't backtrack and lie and /or make up excuses when I was corrected either, so there's that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
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  3. #83
    Banned SLSAMG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imunreal View Post
    But I am wrong.... he was right
    Are you positive about that? The kid doesn't seem like the brightest bulb.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doomchicken View Post
    Probably. Difference is I didn't criticize him for spelling or using grammar incorrectly. I criticized him for quoting me incorrectly and saying I said something anyone with a quarter of a sheeps brain could see I never said. There's a massive difference. I also didn't backtrack and lie and /or make up excuses when I was corrected either, so there's that.
    You're still being deliberately obtuse and ignoring what I stated so congratz.


    Also, stay up for 24hrs without caffeine and even the most simple tasks become difficult. It's been compared to being slightly drunk. I wouldn't expect you to know that. Keep insulting me though big man, it just screams insecurity.
    Last edited by SLSAMG; 2019-02-15 at 09:37 AM.

  4. #84
    I liked quite a lot Cata.It gave me 2 pasanger drake.
    Really? that's the reason?

    If we are looking for the smallest details, WoD was best out of those three, because it had BRF, the best raid in the game.

  5. #85
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
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    Doomchicken
    And btw. Content matters FAR more than anything else, because guess what this game is catered to? The casuals.
    I didn’t want to get stuck in this squabble, but classes design is in fact founder of gameplay, which means even with scanty content there will be huge layer of like, for example, PvP interactions for players that don't require special additions/effort or changes if the entire system works correctly. Therefore, first and foremost important is overall fundamental game design and everything connected with it (it's class design in this particular dispute) and content goes later. Actually this is not even an opinion, it follows from this game organization and development of this genre, otherwise it will be just a "cinema".
    (maybe they will sometime come to this, who knows them with their changes, but now in principle...)

    Statistics is saying that you're very mistaken:
    <1
    (dead already)> <2> <3> <4(dead already)> <5> <6>
    (I don't refer this here as sources, but simply as an advocate of statistics opinion)

    As for WoD itself, then my opinion on its problems can be read here (and as far as I remember, the lack of content isn't even mentioned directly there, although it may be would probably worth to do it)

    ps. So it goes. And now you can continue your inappropriate skirmish
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2020-08-03 at 07:03 AM.
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  6. #86
    Banned SLSAMG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    I didn’t want to get stuck in this squabble, but classes design is in fact founder of gameplay, which means even with scanty content there will be huge layer of like, for example, PvP interactions for players that don't require special additions/effort or changes if the entire system works correctly. Therefore, first and foremost important is overall fundamental game design and everything connected with it (it's class design in this particular dispute) and content goes later. Actually this is not even an opinion, it follows from this game organization and development of this genre, otherwise it will be just a "cinema".

    Statistics saying that you're very mistaken:
    <1> <2> <3> <4> <5> <6>

    (I don't refer this here as sources, but simply as an advocate of statistics opinion)

    As for WoD itself, then my opinion on its problems can be read here (and as far as I remember, the lack of content isn't even mentioned directly there, although it may be would probably be worth to do it)

    ps. So it goes. And now you can continue your inappropriate skirmish


    It's his deluded opinion. I'm starting to think he's just a troll at this point so it's best to simply ignore.

  7. #87
    From a cutting edge raider perspective Cata > WoD > BFA.

    BFA is the most boring i've had in 15 years. I raidlog more or less. Nothing that keeps me in the game. No time for alts. Everything is RNG. No idea if you perform well or not with all the rng traits and millions of iterations of sims.

  8. #88
    Immortal Pua's Avatar
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    In general, it's fair to compare expansions from Cataclysm onward; that's when the biggest team changes happened. Cataclysm was at least pretty good in lots of ways, and made a number of changes that modernised large systems that needed some work. Warlords of Draenor and Battle for Azeroth did neither of those things, first going down (and then badly exasperating) gross simplification and terrible shallowness. Mists of Pandaria did well, other than the time of its conclusion, and Legion also managed to do a number of good things that its successor effectively ruined.

    So:

    Cataclysm was substantially better than the other two, pretty much across the board. Warlords and Battle are easily this game's worst effort, and by one heck of a distance.

  9. #89
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Cata>BfA>WoD

    At least right now. I might be buffing Cata up a bit much due to 4.3 being so enjoyable with the introduction of transmog and easier dungeons. Everything before that sucked even more so than WoD.

    So actually it's kinda like this

    4.3>BfA>WoD>The Rest of Cata

    I'd give more props to the world revamp but joining in the 4.0 pre expansion patch I never saw the old world or experienced leveling through it a half dozen times. So I didn't really feel the benefit of it.
    Last edited by Aeula; 2019-02-15 at 09:56 AM.

  10. #90
    I don't think Cata is an amazing expansion or anything but for it's time it felt quite "fresh" in a way and not as aggressively bad as BfA or WoD. Much higher quality than the two expansions it's being compared to here if you ask me.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    I didn’t want to get stuck in this squabble, but classes design is in fact founder of gameplay, which means even with scanty content there will be huge layer of like, for example, PvP interactions for players that don't require special additions/effort or changes if the entire system works correctly. Therefore, first and foremost important is overall fundamental game design and everything connected with it (it's class design in this particular dispute) and content goes later. Actually this is not even an opinion, it follows from this game organization and development of this genre, otherwise it will be just a "cinema".
    (maybe they will sometime come to this, who knows them with their changes, but now in principle...)

    Statistics saying that you're very mistaken:
    <1> <2> <3> <4> <5> <6>

    (I don't refer this here as sources, but simply as an advocate of statistics opinion)

    As for WoD itself, then my opinion on its problems can be read here (and as far as I remember, the lack of content isn't even mentioned directly there, although it may be would probably be worth to do it)

    ps. So it goes. And now you can continue your inappropriate skirmish
    you're quoting the official forums as evidence? Seriously?

    Legit question. If class design was the be all and end all, then why did the game continue to grow throughout vanilla and bc when a lot of specs were not even remotely viable and in some cases like elemental shaman had legit 1 button rotations? I would think the class design was NOT one of the contributing factors of that growth. Also during cata and wod. it's not like classes were terrible, but yet the game tanked anyway. How did that happen if class design was more important than content?
    I would argue the content was clearly more important. Or the drop wouldn't of been as hard.
    Again, I'm not saying BFA is good, but thinking WoD was better, when the subscriber numbers were legitimately halved (and possibly more since they stopped reporting numbers), and the fact the devs ABANDONED the xpac is pure fantasy, revisionist history, and plain denial.
    (from an objective viewpoint anyway)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooky View Post
    yeah wow cool..how about raising the valor cap consider WoD isn't that far away? 1000 valor points gets u a lollipop and kick in the nutsack these days! Back in my day we could get a bucket of candy and a pet ferret with that sort of points!
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    QUICKLY FRIENDS, TO THE HYPERBOLEMOBILE!

  12. #92
    Mechagnome Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    I didn’t want to get stuck in this squabble, but classes design is in fact founder of gameplay, which means even with scanty content there will be huge layer of like, for example, PvP interactions for players that don't require special additions/effort or changes if the entire system works correctly. Therefore, first and foremost important is overall fundamental game design and everything connected with it (it's class design in this particular dispute) and content goes later. Actually this is not even an opinion, it follows from this game organization and development of this genre, otherwise it will be just a "cinema".
    (maybe they will sometime come to this, who knows them with their changes, but now in principle...)
    With my 4 years of game design education and experience I have to agree on this; Gameplay always trumps content, but one cannot survive without the other in the long run. Games with great gameplay bleeds players eventually when they run out of content, but only having content does not make a great game.

    I managed to keep myself playing a bit longer in WoD due to how I still did older content and my classes(BM hunter, elem shaman) hadn't been pruned or changed too much in the wrong direction at the time after MoP. But in BfA all my favorite classes feel sluggish or clunky due to global cooldown changes, spec changes and ability removal. It makes me not want to even do older content or even level the new races because everything just feels bad to play, a problem I did not have in WoD.

    I keep wanting to log back in and play but then have to remind myself that the class gameplay is not fun. Doesn't matter that there is content, when it is painful to play said content.

  13. #93
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imunreal View Post
    Because you enjoy something that is old, it must be because of nostalgia? What ignorance! I prefer WoD as the raids were more engaging and I could raid log. I can’t do that with BFA and still be ahead. I would still be playing BFA if the raids were good enough to warrant me doing horrible M+. Pushed 1500 R.IO last season, I am not doing it again.



    Read my comment above. I could be wrong on this, as I am not long up and still half sleeping, but I am 99% sure you are using “whom” incorrectly.
    So you think dazar alor is not good?
    i guess that puts you far against the norm.
    and uldir was better then EN atleast.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    The problem is Ion said there will be no class changes until next expansion. Ignore feedback on beta and then say "Expansion is out sorry. Wait till next one!"
    He said no massive class changes.
    would you really want your entire class to change in the middle of the expansion? The fastest way to piss people off is make them want to change class in the middle of an expansion because how the class plays is changed.
    at the start of an expansion that is fine because it gives people time to switch without losing progress. it allows people to try out specs and see what one they like to play most.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I never said that. The point is, the first months matter. A lot more than the latter ones because the set players' expectations for the entire expansion. If the "starting" phase sucks you hardly will come back but when the first months are good, you get dragged down after and then a nice patch comes out, you might more likely return (imho).
    "the first 6 months matter far more then the other 20 months" nah... Not at all... Not in the slightest.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2019-02-20 at 06:40 PM.

  14. #94
    I didn't play during Cata so I can't determine the quality of that expansion.

    I will say however that at least BFA has content which is something WOD really lacked toward the end. However, I still enjoyed WOD for what it was. I liked the story until for whatever reason they decided to abandon it. I also liked Ashran. It was a good "time waster" that was pretty chill which I think is something BFA is missing.

  15. #95
    High Overlord MasterMirror's Avatar
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    Cata>WoD>BfA

  16. #96
    Those expansions were awesome. Worst expansions are: legion and wotlk. Panda is an april joke, so it doesn't even count.

  17. #97
    Bloodsail Admiral Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doomchicken View Post
    If class design was the be all and end all, then why did the game continue to grow throughout vanilla and bc
    And why do you think that I'm going to agree with such statement? Of course I'm not. Basis design was very decent, in short, all your reasoning was initially wrong because it was based on a wrong judgment. You mostly confuse balance with classes design as a whole, but it isn't as such, only private consequence of certain decisions, which by the way only proves more it current position in game. You are fundamentally wrong. Gameplay is more important than content (for this one), and it's at gameplay system that people appeal for the most part saying that game has changed and that "that" game is nicer to them. Naturally, gameplay isn't only about classes design, since its concept is much broader, and it's completely understandable that with not much content it's also quite sad (agree) -
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakheth View Post
    Gameplay always trumps content, but one cannot survive without the other in the long run. Games with great gameplay bleeds players eventually when they run out of content, but only having content does not make a great game.
    but this doesn't change base design priorities. Do you want the most simple and visual proof? - Private servers

    ps. As for official forum examples, you didn't read attentively, they were given solely for the sake of statistics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakheth View Post
    gameplay is/was good back then :P
    - still that's the core, and no, in fact, private servers are the same thing, it’s just that people are more inclined and free to vote with time for what they like (since it's free); official server is so far deprived of such opportunity - you can only accept to play stuff they give you (well, not specifically you, because I don’t know if you are even playing, but in general) ⇒ if forget about BfA, it remains to answer the question of which private servers are more: those where "more content" or those where "better gameplay"?
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-05-23 at 12:38 PM.
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  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Fistfighter View Post
    Really? that's the reason?

    If we are looking for the smallest details, WoD was best out of those three, because it had BRF, the best raid in the game.
    No you are wrong it is A reason and not THE reason.There is a huge difference between the two.Also i gave as an example just one thing.I never said it was the only thing.And it doesn't matter if a thing is huge or small to be liked.
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  19. #99
    Mechagnome Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    but this doesn't change base design priorities. Do you want the most simple and visual proof? - Private servers
    I would say private servers are a special breed, and to be honest there are a lot of content in old expansions. It does take time to go through again and many doesn't play each day due to not having to(ie no paid fee pushing you to play). And people play differently. Some just level characters over and over.
    Not saying it's bad though and it helps that the gameplay is/was good back then :P

  20. #100
    Epic! Highelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadee View Post
    Starting with Mope, every expansion has just gotten worse and worse. I'm amazed people even still play WoW.
    Do you still play? Or do you just litter comments on a forum like you still do? I'm confused.

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