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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    It just requires you to make big pulls. That’s not too niche. Even with bolstering it can be done relatively easy. I’m not saying 4 target dps of unholy are going to get nerfed, but they will definitely put a cap on the big pulls.
    It's not JUST "big pulls" or else unholy would be in every comp in the MDI since large pulls are the name of the game for most of that.

    It's far more specific than that.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    It's not JUST "big pulls" or else unholy would be in every comp in the MDI since large pulls are the name of the game for most of that.

    It's far more specific than that.
    In terms of dps, it is just big pulls.

  3. #63
    I think some ppl here are just not getting the picture, Warrior tank dps is OP for trash, it is but it's the only think a Warrior tank bring to a mythic +
    Battle Shout, you have scrolls. RCry it will help on bosses more then anything else, on big pulls it will just prolong the death of the party most of the times.
    As for the DPS specs for Warrior it's the same outside that we have near to no utility, no AOE stun and if we want a Single target stun you will lose mobility.
    Arms as burst but outside that 0. Lower midd table dps and bad AOE.
    Fury no burst, Midd table dps and Midd table AOE. Near 0 utility.
    Of course the DPS as prot needed a rework i just hope it's not a nerf to kill the class in mythic +.

  4. #64
    Well, it's not only the damage output we bring, which will still be quite decent.
    I mean revenge procs and other damage output is still strong.

    Also the fact that we're a wall against most trash and the spell reflection change we got, which makes us survive magic damage too.
    We bring two stuns, one single target and an aoe stun, which can interrupt a lot of trash abilities. The amount of times i saved people's behinds with that in motherlode or freehold..

    The slow from thunder clap makes kiting on grievous etc weeks quite viable.

    Heroic leap gives us the same mobility as DH.
    We can survive on cooldowns, yes, we have few self heals, but seeing how little damage intake we have compared to some tanking classes and the amount of times we get kills and can victory rush..

    I think prot warrior will still be upper tier for M+, maybe not the absolute kings like we are now, but still good.
    The only thing we can do is play through it and see how it rolls.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by JotunNL View Post
    Well, it's not only the damage output we bring, which will still be quite decent.
    I mean revenge procs and other damage output is still strong.

    Also the fact that we're a wall against most trash and the spell reflection change we got, which makes us survive magic damage too.
    We bring two stuns, one single target and an aoe stun, which can interrupt a lot of trash abilities. The amount of times i saved people's behinds with that in motherlode or freehold..

    The slow from thunder clap makes kiting on grievous etc weeks quite viable.

    Heroic leap gives us the same mobility as DH.
    We can survive on cooldowns, yes, we have few self heals, but seeing how little damage intake we have compared to some tanking classes and the amount of times we get kills and can victory rush..

    I think prot warrior will still be upper tier for M+, maybe not the absolute kings like we are now, but still good.
    The only thing we can do is play through it and see how it rolls.
    I do understand what you say but let's see.
    AOE stun as tank what classes does not have one or something to interrupt AOE?
    DK can Pull and will interrupt and stack them for better AOE damage.
    DH sigils
    Druid the roar to incapacitate and vortex.
    Pala has the shield that procs more and anything else i saw in the game.
    Monk as AOE stun also.
    Mobility some classes have better then us, Monk, Druid and DH. Warrior is not bad at it but not the TOP dog.
    Self Heal, all classes expect us.
    We will see if the nerf wont be too hard. We are good at one thing at the moment and it is the damage we do thats all.

  6. #66
    Death knight: Gorefiend's grasp: 2 minute cooldown
    Demon Hunter: Sigil of Silence: 1 minute cooldown
    Druid: yeah, let's be fair, it's squishy as hell and noone will take one if they can avoid it.. But yes, the incapacitating roar is awesome for that. Ursol's vortex I like a lot too, buet yes, druid's in a bad spot for now..
    Paladin:still just one target that gets silenced, however I recognise the ranged interrupt.
    Monk:leg sweep is a great ability indeed and superior to our shockwave: 1 minute cooldown
    Warrior: Shockwave: 40 seconds.
    So our aoe stun is the 2nd shortest cooldown.

    It's not just about single aspects which some people overly magnify, but the whole package too.
    Yes, we'll have to compete hard with dks and monks now, which makes the player's skill even more important.

    As for not being king: well, look at the top runs on rio and the % of warriors in there..

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by JotunNL View Post
    Death knight: Gorefiend's grasp: 2 minute cooldown
    Demon Hunter: Sigil of Silence: 1 minute cooldown
    Druid: yeah, let's be fair, it's squishy as hell and noone will take one if they can avoid it.. But yes, the incapacitating roar is awesome for that. Ursol's vortex I like a lot too, buet yes, druid's in a bad spot for now..
    Paladin:still just one target that gets silenced, however I recognise the ranged interrupt.
    Monk:leg sweep is a great ability indeed and superior to our shockwave: 1 minute cooldown
    Warrior: Shockwave: 40 seconds.
    So our aoe stun is the 2nd shortest cooldown.

    It's not just about single aspects which some people overly magnify, but the whole package too.
    Yes, we'll have to compete hard with dks and monks now, which makes the player's skill even more important.

    As for not being king: well, look at the top runs on rio and the % of warriors in there..
    True i know that but like you said it's the hole package, DK the grasp 1 min + single stun and interrupt and heals
    Druid vortex 1 min + stun and interrupt + heals
    Monk is OP as fuck the hole thing.
    DH have several sigils, you can use the silence one, the chains one and fear so you can stop alot of casts + heals.
    Pala Shield thats procs like crazy + stun + interrupt crazy defensives and heals.
    Warrior aoe stun that need to be in front of you to be effective 40 secs, interrupt and fear, 0 self heal if you dont get a Kblow.

  8. #68
    Well, I miss a couple of strong suits to warrior, but hey, I can't say how it will go after going live.
    I'll push through on warrior, to be fair if it doesn't work for people anymore, rerolling is possible.
    I have Pala and Monk alts, but I always stick to warr, but will see.
    I just disagree with your perception of warrior, but we're not going to completely agree there, I suppose.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by JotunNL View Post
    Death knight: Gorefiend's grasp: 2 minute cooldown
    Demon Hunter: Sigil of Silence: 1 minute cooldown
    Monk:leg sweep is a great ability indeed and superior to our shockwave: 1 minute cooldown
    Warrior: Shockwave: 40 seconds.
    May I know why you think Leg sweep is superior to shockwave ? Isn't shockwave better since you can lower the CD if you use it against 3 targets ? (unless I'm confusing it with another spec ?)
    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    True i know that but like you said it's the hole package, DK the grasp 1 min + single stun and interrupt and heals.
    DH have several sigils, you can use the silence one, the chains one and fear so you can stop alot of casts + heals.
    Warrior aoe stun that need to be in front of you to be effective 40 secs, interrupt and fear, 0 self heal if you dont get a Kblow.
    DKs and DHs may have heals, but that's also because they really need it to compensate the big damage reduction the others classes has.
    And about DH's sigils, well... Not only you need to talent it in order to have only a 1 sec delayed interrupt but that also means you'll have to be quite reactive (either that, or you pre activate it against casters you perfectly know when to use them).
    Tbh, the others tanks aren't that far ahead / behind.

    Personnally I dislike the way the warrior is played when it comes to mitigations. You need to juggle between Ignore pain and Shield Block. And even then, it's perfectly possible you won't be able to use either one of them because of no charges + no rage.
    Last edited by Raiz; 2019-04-16 at 11:09 AM.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiz View Post
    May I know why you think Leg sweep is superior to shockwave ? Isn't shockwave better since you can lower the CD if you use it against 3 targets ? (unless I'm confusing it with another spec ?)

    DKs and DHs may have heals, but that's also because they really need it to compensate the big damage reduction the others classes has.
    And about DH's sigils, well... Not only you need to talent it in order to have only a 1 sec delayed interrupt but that also means you'll have to be quite reactive (either that, or you pre activate it against casters you perfectly know when to use them).
    Tbh, the others tanks aren't that far ahead / behind.

    Personnally I dislike the way the warrior is played when it comes to mitigations. You need to juggle between Ignore pain and Shield Block. And even then, it's perfectly possible you won't be able to use either one of them because of no charges + no rage.
    Leg swep is better due to stun all enemies around you.
    DK's take more damage because of the insane heals or they would be inmortals.
    DH with the rework i bealive it will be just fine now. But i preffer the tanking spec from legion way better. Ofc if you tanking you need to know when and how to place the sigils.
    Warrior just need a bit boost on the IP mostly for magic damage since the spell reflect it's tricky, if a spell is refleted then that's it no more magical reducion. Ofc the warrior prot damage was high but 50% i bealive to be too much. something around 20% to start and if would still be too high go to 25%.
    I hope it wont kill warriors because it's the only spec taken for mythic +

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    Leg swep is better due to stun all enemies around you.
    DK's take more damage because of the insane heals or they would be inmortals.
    DH with the rework i bealive it will be just fine now. But i preffer the tanking spec from legion way better. Ofc if you tanking you need to know when and how to place the sigils.
    Warrior just need a bit boost on the IP mostly for magic damage since the spell reflect it's tricky, if a spell is refleted then that's it no more magical reducion. Ofc the warrior prot damage was high but 50% i bealive to be too much. something around 20% to start and if would still be too high go to 25%.
    I hope it wont kill warriors because it's the only spec taken for mythic +
    It's not 50% overall TC damage only the talent..

    Normal TC hits for 100 damage
    8.1.5 TC with UF hits for 200 damage
    8.2 TC with UF will hit for 150 damage

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    WOW 50% nerf in TC on PTR right now LOL!!!
    RIP Prot Warrior for M+
    GG Blizz
    Why is that rip? Prot will still do more damage than every other tank by a good chunk. It was broken and needed a nerf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    The main issue is why now bring a Warrior to m+?
    Tanks with the nerf what will they bring?
    You can bring a Dk with mass pull and great self heal and that can control undead, Monk still top dog for tanking damage with great movement and a good toolkit, druids with the buff might became really good and same with DH.
    Now dps wise why bring a warrior??? Can anyone tell me why?
    Grip isn't that great. Just snap the mobs.
    Prot still brings a good toolkit, especially to higher keys.
    Self-healing doesn't mean as much when they still require more healing than prot. Guardian has more self healing than prot, doesn't make them not shit. Prot's not specifically strong because of their damage output, that's just part of it (and our damage is still the highest of all the tanks) but what makes prot so nuts is how little damage it takes, especially on large pulls.

    Druid buffs bring it's damage in line with monk/dk for aoe. Nothing amazing. DH literally just makes it not fall over outside Demon Spikes, and no change during demon spikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allseye View Post
    So first, 100k dps is not usual and simply peaks. Show me 1 dungeon/encounter where a prot warrior do this overall. Starting a discussion with "cherry picking" is not very professional.

    But i do agree, its not a good job to do a balacing where prot warriors have to expect to deal dmg like a dps because not having any other utility. Every (not single minded) prot warrior will agree that we do alot overall dps (even its not near 100k) and this nerf is reasonable. But we also agree this is the only advantage we bring against other tank classes, aren't we? So, instead of coming into warrior-channel and posting some non-helping stuff you could provide your POV why taking a prot warrior and just simply skip this "whining" - discuission. Wouldn't that be a better way?
    It's not cherry picking. Triple BoM, large pull, prot can consistently and easily reach 150-200k dps, beating a large portion of DPS specs in mass aoe, and we can sustain it for 20 seconds, on a ~45 second CD. That's insane.

    And for fucks sake, prot has other utility. Where did this bitch come from, we're not struggling to bring anything to m+. Prot has a good toolkit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnosh View Post
    Couldn't aggree more. It's the same as people complaining at Unholy DK doing 500k+ dps, they do it under specific conditions and if you don't meet those conditions you wont take advantage of it.

    Sure as a prot I can burst 170k+ specially in Motherlode's reaping packs on 17+ keys, but if i couldn't do that what would I be bringing to the group? Self heals? nop... extra interrupts? nop.... control over mobs/pulls? nop....

    Oh yes we have shield block - which feels awesome tanking the Tree Boss in Waycrest for 40 stacks in 15's... but what does it serve me if when I'm doing 18's+ with tyrannical i still have to do mechanics like other tanks?

    With all this whining for warriors being good at something for 1 season out of 2 expansions you would expect that when you look at Rio you would see 90% of tanks being Warriors in 20's+ keys, but guess what? No! it's only 53.4%, and on top of that last week we had the highest key done, a TD 25 with a Prot Paladin and not a warrior :O
    You bring spell reflect, shortest cd AoE stun in the game, rally, Shout, motherfucking Safeguard, Spell reflect, fear, ranged stun.

    You don't have to do mechanics like other tanks though....? You can tank every "kite" boss on tyrannical up to 20 and not actually have to kite. Second boss in Shrine, third boss in KR, Tree boss in WC, you can facetank them the entire time on tyrannical. No other tank can even get close to that.
    "Control over mobs" learn to snap mobs, dumbass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    I think some ppl here are just not getting the picture, Warrior tank dps is OP for trash, it is but it's the only think a Warrior tank bring to a mythic +
    Battle Shout, you have scrolls. RCry it will help on bosses more then anything else, on big pulls it will just prolong the death of the party most of the times.
    As for the DPS specs for Warrior it's the same outside that we have near to no utility, no AOE stun and if we want a Single target stun you will lose mobility.
    Arms as burst but outside that 0. Lower midd table dps and bad AOE.
    Fury no burst, Midd table dps and Midd table AOE. Near 0 utility.
    Of course the DPS as prot needed a rework i just hope it's not a nerf to kill the class in mythic +.
    You bring spell reflect, shortest cd AoE stun in the game, rally, Shout, motherfucking Safeguard, Spell reflect, fear, ranged stun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JotunNL View Post
    Death knight: Gorefiend's grasp: 2 minute cooldown
    Demon Hunter: Sigil of Silence: 1 minute cooldown
    Druid: yeah, let's be fair, it's squishy as hell and noone will take one if they can avoid it.. But yes, the incapacitating roar is awesome for that. Ursol's vortex I like a lot too, buet yes, druid's in a bad spot for now..
    Paladin:still just one target that gets silenced, however I recognise the ranged interrupt.
    Monk:leg sweep is a great ability indeed and superior to our shockwave: 1 minute cooldown
    Warrior: Shockwave: 40 seconds.
    So our aoe stun is the 2nd shortest cooldown.

    It's not just about single aspects which some people overly magnify, but the whole package too.
    Yes, we'll have to compete hard with dks and monks now, which makes the player's skill even more important.

    As for not being king: well, look at the top runs on rio and the % of warriors in there..
    The only "competition" with prot will be paladin. That said, all four tanks are very good for high m+, and bear is less shit now. Even vdh isn't 100% worthless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    I do understand what you say but let's see.
    AOE stun as tank what classes does not have one or something to interrupt AOE?
    DK can Pull and will interrupt and stack them for better AOE damage.
    DH sigils
    Druid the roar to incapacitate and vortex.
    Pala has the shield that procs more and anything else i saw in the game.
    Monk as AOE stun also.
    Mobility some classes have better then us, Monk, Druid and DH. Warrior is not bad at it but not the TOP dog.
    Self Heal, all classes expect us.
    We will see if the nerf wont be too hard. We are good at one thing at the moment and it is the damage we do thats all.
    You keep saying "no self heal", first you have VR, which you can reliably proc because again, you have the highest damage of any tank in the game, second, Last Stand is a 30% heal, and third, you don't need self healing like the other tanks because even after their self healing is taken into account, they still require more attention from a healer than prot does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    True i know that but like you said it's the hole package, DK the grasp 1 min + single stun and interrupt and heals
    Druid vortex 1 min + stun and interrupt + heals
    Monk is OP as fuck the hole thing.
    DH have several sigils, you can use the silence one, the chains one and fear so you can stop alot of casts + heals.
    Pala Shield thats procs like crazy + stun + interrupt crazy defensives and heals.
    Warrior aoe stun that need to be in front of you to be effective 40 secs, interrupt and fear, 0 self heal if you dont get a Kblow.
    What exactly is OP about monk. Druid doesn't have a stun. Grip is a 2min cd and only one stun. Last Stand, again, heals. Prot warrior, again, requires less healing than other tanks stop listing that as a reason you fucking ape.

    Prot has a ranged stun, and again, safeguard. Christ Almighty, how do people just ignore safeguard.

  13. #73
    True, Warrior is sturdy and can facetank. This is why we bring no selfheals and a lower health-pool (gets mostly ignored). This counts for every blockable dmg - otherwise healing is muuuch better. And thats fine! So we should not compare this two things. It would be awesome to have (real) selfheals - but lets be honest, that would be OP. I'm completely fine with that: monster while blockable, pussy if its not :-).

    While it's true to have low CD's on avatar & demo-shout, this peaks are reached in reaping-phases. Outside of that, we do between 40-70k AE DPS (what is still alot) - but we don't reach 100k+...otherwise you do insane pulls. Reaping will be gone with 8.2 - so it will adjust effectiveness of prots AE. But i dounderstand other tanks are complaining about prots output.

    Regarding utility i'm not with you. And safeguard (at least in my POV) is not that usefull as you declare it. We were cutted at beginning of BFA and basically completly ignored in m+. It's normal to fear it if you see Blizzard nerfing our biggest advantage.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Allseye View Post
    True, Warrior is sturdy and can facetank. This is why we bring no selfheals and a lower health-pool (gets mostly ignored). This counts for every blockable dmg - otherwise healing is muuuch better. And thats fine! So we should not compare this two things. It would be awesome to have (real) selfheals - but lets be honest, that would be OP. I'm completely fine with that: monster while blockable, pussy if its not :-).

    While it's true to have low CD's on avatar & demo-shout, this peaks are reached in reaping-phases. Outside of that, we do between 40-70k AE DPS (what is still alot) - but we don't reach 100k+...otherwise you do insane pulls. Reaping will be gone with 8.2 - so it will adjust effectiveness of prots AE. But i dounderstand other tanks are complaining about prots output.

    Regarding utility i'm not with you. And safeguard (at least in my POV) is not that usefull as you declare it. We were cutted at beginning of BFA and basically completly ignored in m+. It's normal to fear it if you see Blizzard nerfing our biggest advantage.
    I aggre with you man. I still need to try out when i get home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deciticus View Post
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    I only state those because it's the utility they have nothing more.
    Also Prot is the only spec that is taken to mythic + if you are a warrior.
    So i need to use my offspec in order to do mythic + and if the nerf hammer was too big simply would kill the class since DPS specs from warrior are being overlooked.
    Last edited by HeiAggra; 2019-04-17 at 10:53 AM.

  15. #75
    IMO they should rework fear for warriors, at least in PvE. Make it work like a knockback. So the mobs will guarantee run a short distance from warrior and stop there (continuing to be in fear as usual). Also it should work for every mob that's susceptible for grips. It will allow warrior to move archers from blood and allow to use it as a kind of CC to buy few seconds. Currently prot does not bring any utility and does not have self heals.
    Last edited by vsb; 2019-04-17 at 12:37 PM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Exactly. GJ to Blizzard for balancing the game. People who thinks it is okay for a tank to do 100+ k dps on an AOE fight are crazy. The nerf to prot is completely reasonable.

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    And you cry and scream everytime Warriors are not on the top. Get real.
    Not me! I play DK and Pally

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeiAggra View Post
    The main issue is why now bring a Warrior to m+?
    Tanks with the nerf what will they bring?
    You can bring a Dk with mass pull and great self heal and that can control undead, Monk still top dog for tanking damage with great movement and a good toolkit, druids with the buff might became really good and same with DH.
    Now dps wise why bring a warrior??? Can anyone tell me why?
    #puglife

    This is why I run with my guild. We take the person if they know the instance and their rotation. It's just a game so why not play with friends to have fun.
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  17. #77
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    With the new Class specific heart of azeroth essence, I have a feeling prot warr will be even more stupidly OP than it is now

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Deciticus View Post

    You bring spell reflect, shortest cd AoE stun in the game, rally, Shout, motherfucking Safeguard, Spell reflect, fear, ranged stun.

    You don't have to do mechanics like other tanks though....? You can tank every "kite" boss on tyrannical up to 20 and not actually have to kite. Second boss in Shrine, third boss in KR, Tree boss in WC, you can facetank them the entire time on tyrannical. No other tank can even get close to that.
    "Control over mobs" learn to snap mobs, dumbass.
    Spell reflect is just one no point on mentioning it twice, might be just the hurge to spit stuff out i know i know...

    Ok, so let's debunk this:

    1- Yes, we have a 40 frontal cone stun, which we have had for years. Nothing new there and NEVER was the reason Warriors were picked for M+;
    2- Rallying Cry is great, it's utility for the party. Since we are talking about utility, please compare it with: Hand of the protector, Lay on Hands, Blessing of Sacrifice, Blessing of Protection, Blessing of Spellwarding, Ring of peace, etc;
    3- Shout, not sure what you wan't to talk about shout, we had shout since the the start of the expansion... We were not picked, we were meme spec. Do you not understand that shout is great because you build your group around Prot warrior and rogues? Which is why they bring a WW monk too and on top the Druid can go Cat form to dps so everyone benefits from Attack Power and the Extra physical damage taken debuff from the monk. Using Shout as a ''OMG WE HAVE SHOUT WE ARE SO STRONG'' is not understanding what you are talking about, you are not picked because you have shout, you are picked because you are strong and so are rogues, having shout is just something extra that will help determine and min max the rest of the group. If you didn't had shout you would still be there, the same way you had shout before and you were not being first choice and why DH were there instead of WWMonks;
    4- Safeguard is awesome, can't argue with you, buuuuut it's only picked in like 1 dungeon and has to be tyranical, so meh =/;
    5- Spell reflect is truly great, it's a win more kind of thing when you can reflect and a big balloon of oxygen when you can't;
    6- Fear is mostly used as a mass interrupt or displacer. Again, Paladins have Blinding light which also mass interrupts, Monks have Ring of Peace;
    7- Ranged Stun, yes so do Paladins and DK's while Monks have a cc at range (which palas spec into too);


    About the rest, you must a top prot warrior, but like a hidden gem, because i see, you know Warriors that win MDI's, resetting the stacks on 22+WM on the Tree Boss in tyranical. The third boss in KR? Are you joking? You don't parry you kite that's what happens which... oh boy all tanks can actually parry! :O I'd say you need to teach them how to play you clearly know stuff they don't

    It's impressive, I'm the dumbass but everyone who knows a little bit of tanking will tell you that you have much less control over mobs as a warrior than you have as a DK. Snap mobs on top of that is priceless especially when you hear Blizz saying they want to avoid snapping mobs and fix it

    So dude, before you come here with insults and stuff just don't talk man, really it's disappointing I expected someone who comes with insults and stuff to at least make some good points or at least some factual information

    Final notes: To be clear I'm not saying warriors are bad, actually the opposite, Prot Warriors are awesome at the moment, we have all these things like a lot of other Tanks but on top of that we out-dps them all, making us probably the best tank around for m+. But, with this being said we still see teams running other tanks like Prot Paladins and Brewmaster Monks clearing 24's and 25's in time, which means that even with our OP damage we can still have competition. Take our overpowered damage away with a nerf and a change in affix and we will probably be outclassed by those same tanks that are still competing with us.

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