Amazon Ditches it's second HQ in NYC because of Politics.

[AceofH]

It would be 46% wouldn't it. That's not technically true because your poll leaves out options like a different deal or such. 13 billion is chump change compared to a 1.1 trillion budget.

heres another poll
https://ny.curbed.com/2019/2/14/1822...eled-reactions

70% in favor.
While polls show that 70% of New Yorkers support our plans and investment, a number of state and local politicians have made it clear that they oppose our presence

so basically amazon left because the politicians. the person i quoted said that AoC was standing up for her constituents. clearly htat isn't the case because two different polls have shown >55% of the population in favor of Amazon in NY.

[Khelek]

What amazon is doing should be illegal. They're literally strongarming the government to cut their taxes and subsidize their company.

This should be absolutely illegal. (i realize other companies do it, should be illegal for any company, and any local / state / federal government)

It should be illegal for private businesses to choose where to build their headquarters? If NY isn't the most advantageous place to expand, they should be forced to build there anyway because it makes some people upset if they decided not to? Business should be free to decide how and where they are going to expand. Ideally, the government wouldn't be involved at all in anyway and the market would decide the location. This is normal economic competition.

NY is hugely advantageous to business simply because of it's importance to the US economy, international trade, banking, etc. Think how bad the political situation has to be for Amazon to choose to opt out.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

heres another poll
https://ny.curbed.com/2019/2/14/1822...eled-reactions

70% in favor.
While polls show that 70% of New Yorkers support our plans and investment, a number of state and local politicians have made it clear that they oppose our presence

so basically amazon left because the politicians. the person i quoted said that AoC was standing up for her constituents. clearly htat isn't the case because two different polls have shown >55% of the population in favor of Amazon in NY.

AOC doesn't represent the district but can give her opinion. I still don't think it's a bad thing more big cities need to do stuff like it honestly. Sucks the poltician didn't listen to there constituents though.

[AceofH]

AOC doesn't represent the district but can give her opinion. I still don't think it's a bad thing more big cities need to do stuff like it honestly. Sucks the poltician didn't listen to there constituents though.

she was still one of the ones pushing the anti amazon sentiment and she celebrated them leaving. so how well can she honestly be representing her people?

are you seriously going to tell me that people in her district weren't going to be able to get jobs from amazon?

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

she was still one of the ones pushing the anti amazon sentiment and she celebrated them leaving. so how well can she honestly be representing her people?

are you seriously going to tell me that people in her district weren't going to be able to get jobs from amazon?

I never said they could but New York overall can afford to say no unlike other places. 4.5% unemployment and a massive gdp.

[AceofH]

I never said they could but New York overall can afford to say no unlike other places. 4.5% unemployment and a massive gdp.

you realize the national average is 4% right? so NY is above the national average....

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

you realize the national average is 4% right? so NY is above the national average....

I know and the gdp is well above the average to make up for it they can afford this unlike like other places.

https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

3.9% as of jan 2019.

[AceofH]

I know and the gdp is well above the average to make up for it they can afford this unlike like other places.

and yet that still does nothing for those who want JOBS.

GDP THIS GDP THAT.

PEOPLE WANT JOBS!

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

and yet that still does nothing for those who want JOBS.

GDP THIS GDP THAT.

PEOPLE WANT JOBS!

They're getting those jobs though 3.9% unemployment now without Amazon. Amazon would've driven up rent, inflation, and traffic. An area that could handled the commerce got an amazon building though. They can afford to look at other means rather than taking any deal unlike the bottom performing states. I wish bigger area used there leverage more honestly. Amazon needs those areas as much as they need amazon because of the talent pool.

https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

[AceofH]

They're getting those jobs though 3.9% unemployment now without Amazon. Amazon would've driven up rent, inflation, and traffic. An area that could handled the commerce got an amazon building though. They can afford to look at other means rather than taking any deal.

https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

and now they are likely to go to texas, which has a lower UR then new york.

[dippinsawse]

Norway is a pretty bad example. Much of their economy is on oil. Probably a better one would be Germany.

Also, we have far more people than we have wealth? Have you seen the US military budget? Why is the US still spending like it's in WW2.

The problem with that is germany is a terrible example and is not something we should emulate at all. Norway is a good example but can't be applied in the US. Germany is a bad example that I would not want applied in the US. I think a lot of people misunderstand a lot of europe's systems and just think the grass is greener. They think, "Oh taxes are higher so they have more and better programs to help people".

In reality germany taxes the poor far more than the US does. In the US your taxes are really low until you start getting into the top 1% ranges. The rich in the US already pay like half of all income taxes. The poor and middle classes pay like half of what is paid in germany and then they also receive the majority of benefits on top of that. The US system is far more beneficial to the lower classes already and yet people think it is unfair to the poor for some reason.

As for the amount of money we have I believe I already said, but just to reiterate we simply do not collect enough money in taxes to pay for programs like that even if ALL of our income and payroll taxes went towards it. Where do you think that money will come from? The military budget is nothing compared to how much we would have to increase taxes to pay for all that. A major factor that a lot of people overlook with that is you can't just get more tax revenue by increasing tax rates. It is unfortunately not that simple. If you raise taxes that will put more burden on the top 1% who already pay about half of our total income taxes and they will just work harder to avoid paying taxes. Ultimately if you expect them to pay twice what they are paying now which would be bare minimum necessary to achieve programs like that, many of them would just stop investing and/or leave the country and we would lose tax revenue. There is nothing keeping them here and making them invest in our economy.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

and now they are likely to go to texas, which has a lower UR then new york.

Ok they are still doing fine without amazon and the unemployment rate is still falling... Like what's your point? Texas is starting to experience the same problems as California because of it's over friendlyness to business.

[Collegeguy]

The problem with that is germany is a terrible example and is not something we should emulate at all. Norway is a good example but can't be applied in the US. Germany is a bad example that I would not want applied in the US. I think a lot of people misunderstand a lot of europe's systems and just think the grass is greener. They think, "Oh taxes are higher so they have more and better programs to help people".

In reality germany taxes the poor far more than the US does. In the US your taxes are really low until you start getting into the top 1% ranges. The rich in the US already pay like half of all income taxes. The poor and middle classes pay like half of what is paid in germany and then they also receive the majority of benefits on top of that. The US system is far more beneficial to the lower classes already and yet people think it is unfair to the poor for some reason.

As for the amount of money we have I believe I already said, but just to reiterate we simply do not collect enough money in taxes to pay for programs like that even if ALL of our income and payroll taxes went towards it. Where do you think that money will come from? The military budget is nothing compared to how much we would have to increase taxes to pay for all that. A major factor that a lot of people overlook with that is you can't just get more tax revenue by increasing tax rates. It is unfortunately not that simple. If you raise taxes that will put more burden on the top 1% who already pay about half of our total income taxes and they will just work harder to avoid paying taxes. Ultimately if you expect them to pay twice what they are paying now which would be bare minimum necessary to achieve programs like that, many of them would just stop investing and/or leave the country and we would lose tax revenue. There is nothing keeping them here and making them invest in our economy.

Social security can easily be reformed. Military spending gutted to 1950 levels plus social security reformed, and we solve your paragraph problem with one sentence.

[Trumpcat]

The buying power of min wage... Lets not deal with fantasy, but with what is.
After all, we already have plenty of red states getting plenty of government funding. Which may be the example you should scrutinize.

There is no way to turn the rejection of enormous investment into a good thing, regardless of how you would try to derail this.

[dippinsawse]

Social security can easily be reformed. Military spending gutted to 1950 levels plus social security reformed, and we solve your paragraph problem with one sentence.

It's really not that easy at all. What you are saying is completely ignorant of reality. I'm not putting you down or calling you stupid or anything, but I have pointed out multiple times that we literally don't have money for this. We already can't pay the social services we have right now. Even if we completely eliminated military spending we wouldn't be able to reach net zero yearly deficit growth, let alone pay for programs that would cost trillions on top of that.

The income required for that does not exist. And the government's ability to create that income also likely does not exist because as I said the top 1% already pay like half of total income taxes. They also collectively only pay a rate of like 10% on their income in taxes. So if you raise taxes you aren't going to really be getting their money, they already avoid a ton of taxes as it is and pretty much pay what they want to pay. If you raise taxes they will either avoid it or they will stop investing/move their wealth out of the country and that would just make things worse. And the lower classes in the US already pay low tax rates and receive most benefits so trying to tax them in order to give them healthcare they already have doesn't really do anything except convince people the government is useful when it didn't really do anything.

[NED funded]

I'm 50/50 amazon moving in would have raised rent and hurt citizens. They can also get another deal in the future. New york also has an unemployment rate of 4.5%. There are smaller areas that could use the jobs and the other hq is getting built there. Google moved into to new york and rent went up massively. Citzens well beings over some change isn't a bad thing. Well it's change to new york, Texas, and california.

New yorks current gdp is 1.103 trillion USD and 13 billion is fucking change in comparison.

You know what multiplier is right? Its not only 13 billion.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

You know what multiplier is right? Its not only 13 billion.

What's the total? The money from wages would've been around 40 million a year while making life worse for people who live in the actual city.