The state of spec balance is terrible.

[kek1488]

^^ Pretty much.

I'm pretty sure by definition only bad players reroll to FoTM. No reason to switch if you can play well with the class you like.

Yeah I'm sure half the method players are bad then, what shitty brainlet mentality both have.
Players like Fragnance reroll every expansion and keep a multitude of alts geared to play the strongest fotm specs.

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Yep, prot warrior was underplayed before 8.1 so they kept buffing it and buffing it until they created this monster. It's already 30% ahead dps wise of other tanks in raid, and it gets multiplied in dungeons on aoe like reaping. Funny how other underplayed tanks like demon hunters and druids didn't get the same treatment? Typical Blizzard balance.

Warrior dps was never really buffed, good job.

[Khallid]

Yeah I'm sure half the method players are bad then, what shitty brainlet mentality both have.
Players like Fragnance reroll every expansion and keep a multitude of alts geared to play the strongest fotm specs.

What Method does is not rerolling to FoTM. They purposely level multiple characters in advance because they are competing in a race. That's a planned strategy, not a reroll. If you actively keep multiple characters ready then you play multiple characters.

[kek1488]

Spec balance isn't that bad. What is bad is the level of meta slavery that is occurring at anything outside top 1%. Everyone now is a sim whore meta slave. Play what you want. Don't put up with people demanding you play best class/spec for H or non top 100 mythic. Its absurd but the community can just change its toxic attitude.

Hey man, some people can't help themselves, it's like the people that love using meta buzzwords for everything.

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What Method does is not rerolling to FoTM. They purposely level multiple characters in advance because they are competing in a race. That's a planned strategy, not a reroll. If you actively keep multiple characters ready then you play multiple characters.

Both seem like the same strategy to me.
Or do you actually believe only bad players reroll to fotm classes?
I can level any class I want right now to 120 and ask my friends to carry me all weekend on m10+ and I'll be caught up ilvl wise 400+ and ready for raiding in less than 2 days.
You are basically comparing preemptive strategy to proactive.
Swapping is swapping, and what method does is no better than what jonnydoe random raider does to get more dps on the meters.

[Nnyco]

Only problem are people like OP who consider specs dead because they arent top.

[kek1488]

Only problem are people like OP who consider specs dead because they arent top.

You've never been a feral druid trying to compete with rogues for a m+15 have you?

[Khallid]

Both seem like the same strategy to me.
Or do you actually believe only bad players reroll to fotm classes?
I can level any class I want right now to 120 and ask my friends to carry me all weekend on m10+ and I'll be caught up ilvl wise 400+ and ready for raiding in less than 2 days.
You are basically comparing preemptive strategy to proactive.
Swapping is swapping, and what method does is no better than what jonnydoe random raider does to get more dps on the meters.

Hmmmm, you're probably right. I'm overreaching and assuming too much out of rerollers and why they do it.

[Irian]

Yep, pretty much.

I had the theory that they dumbed classes down so hard to this 5-button crap we have, with minimal complication that could be hard to math out in a raid setting, so they could perfectly balance classes easier. This doesn't seem to be the case because frankly class balance in BfA is somehow worst than it's ever been. I don't know how they managed it but they actually succeeded in making the game less balanced than when we had things like spec-individual utility.

This just leads me to a feeling of extreme frustration because I can't help but feel like our classes and specs lost their unique utilities for nothing. No more Dark Intents, Symbioses, focus magics, Demonic Pact, moonkin and paladin auras etc. Why did we lose all this cool shit if not for balance?

[kek1488]

Don't forget snapshotting removal.
That alone made the game a whole less fun, brought down the skill ceiling harder than 9/11 and made a handful of specs go into a very dark and confusing period that is still being suffered and only fixed with bandaids.

[Emerald Archer]

Gingi played BM for many fights in BoD. He would also play BM on Jaina no matter what.

But BM is just not a serious spec. It is so faceroll that it can be played by a monkey with no eyes.

If you're gonna give the Gingi reason, you should know why he played it, and you should know why he instantly switched to MM after.

"He would play BM on jaina no matter what" Except.. He's MM in raid now, and has said he was ONLY BM on jaina to escort, a job that has since been realised to not be needed at all.

Not to mention again, BM is getting worse, it scaled the worst out of all specs, that was early in the tier, it's literally getting worse with every week of gear.

But yes, it is absolutely an extremely easy spec, it isn't the easiest rotationally, but infinite mobility makes the spec a joke, because movement management is one of the few things left that still require a brain.

[clevin]

"All the classes are the same! They can't make classes interesting anymore!!!"

"DPS difference is more than 5%!!!! Make them the same!!!!"

Pick one.

[Marrilaife]

Warrior dps was never really buffed

So? Before 8.1 they couldn't have that kind of uptime on dps in m+ and weren't picked for raids because too squishy. 10% hp and 15% extra armor in 3 buff waves allowed them to actually survive and do the dps. The biggest reason Uldir was the season of the brewmaster was tank survivability. M+ was full on kite meta as well. Buffing warrior defensively so he can facetank more is a buff to his dps, since all of it is fairly short range.

You mean the 2 weeks warriors were good the entire expansion?

So prot warriors had 2 moments of glory since legion (1 in emerald nightmare and 1 now especially in m+ everyone's swapping to prot warriors), veng dh had none, always outclassed by other tanks, and paladins were consistently middle of the pack or below average.

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Do you really think for a second the current Protwarrior +30%-base-DPS over every single Tankspec and Thunderclap AoE nonsense is something to stay? There is no skillfloor or skillcap visible, just about every Protwarrior plays the same, there are no outliers at all.

It's very well possible since Blizzard is often super slow to react to anything, there's no class tuning in 8.1.5 ptr, only some small pvp talent tweaks, everything else is tooltip changes or incorporating live hotfixes into ptr, so basically no change just client update. We'll be going with the same class balance into crucible of storms, maybe, just maaaybe something will change for rise of azshara which probably won't be here until may - june.

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Many players need to play the best class, because in the pug world, not everyone gets invited either or want to join your group (if you're a dead spec).

All this "play whatever you want unless you're going for world first"-BS on MMOC needs to stop. It's actually the pugs that care way more about this.

It's not just pugs, guilds do the same, you can play a feral druid or enhancement shaman IF you're already in a guild, and that guild trusts your skill, and also that guild isn't world top or wannabe tryhard that will bench you. But IF you're looking for a guild, good luck finding one that has recruitment open for some off-meta specs. I remember going through this in WOD where basically 6 guilds in a row told me "we don't want your class", insta, before looking at logs or experience or anything, just flat out decline. Guilds rarely go "we want a good healer / tank / range / melee", most commonly they go "we need x, y, z specs to bolster the roster", period.

[rohoz]

If you're gonna give the Gingi reason, you should know why he played it, and you should know why he instantly switched to MM after.

"He would play BM on jaina no matter what" Except.. He's MM in raid now, and has said he was ONLY BM on jaina to escort, a job that has since been realised to not be needed at all.

Not to mention again, BM is getting worse, it scaled the worst out of all specs, that was early in the tier, it's literally getting worse with every week of gear.

But yes, it is absolutely an extremely easy spec, it isn't the easiest rotationally, but infinite mobility makes the spec a joke, because movement management is one of the few things left that still require a brain.

BM has been the best progression/worst farm spec since it got changed in legion.

[Emerald Archer]

BM has been the best progression/worst farm spec since it got changed in legion.

Except it's no longer going to be a good progression spec, due to the dmg being so extremely behind. If nothing changes going into next tier, no decent player will play BM on progression. Meeres from Method stopped playing BM on Jaina, and switching to MM, Gingi only didn't do the same because he was doing escorting duty, which is since then something people have realised isn't needed.

I don't know what point you're trying to make, BM was not the better spec all of legion, it was better in Uldir because it also did good damage, and MM is currently the better progression spec.

[rohoz]

Except it's no longer going to be a good progression spec, due to the dmg being so extremely behind. If nothing changes going into next tier, no decent player will play BM on progression. Meeres from Method stopped playing BM on Jaina, and switching to MM, Gingi only didn't do the same because he was doing escorting duty, which is since then something people have realised isn't needed.

I don't know what point you're trying to make, BM was not the better spec all of legion, it was better in Uldir because it also did good damage, and MM is currently the better progression spec.

mmmmmm
But you don't bring hunters for damage, you bring them for utility. BM does comparable damage with way more utility. MM only starts looking good when content is on farm and players can ignore/bypass mechanics.

I mean, both specs were bringing up the rear. BM is and will still remain the better *progression* spec.

We should just bet what they play in the next full raid. 10 bucks says they'll all be BM again

[Emerald Archer]

mmmmmm
But you don't bring hunters for damage, you bring them for utility. BM does comparable damage with way more utility. MM only starts looking good when content is on farm and players can ignore/bypass mechanics.

I mean, both specs were bringing up the rear. BM is and will still remain the better *progression* spec.

We should just bet what they play in the next full raid. 10 bucks says they'll all be BM again

BM doesn't do comparable dmg, and the extent of its "utility" is survivability and being able to do escort jobs (again, no escort job needed this tier)

You should re-look into MM, it's rising every week as more and more good players switch and get the gear for it.

If nothing changes, it won't be BM. I'm not saying this as a random shit player speculating what higher end players will be playing, I've literally spoken to high end raiders, players currently progressing on Jaina like myself, or players who have killed it.

It's not a matter of speculation, it's a matter of fact. BM is no longer better than MM for progression raiding.

The whole "BM is the best spec for progression"

Okay so why isn't every raid full of BM hunters in their ranged dps? Oh right, because the dmg is so much worse than other specs they can bring. BM doesn't BRING anything, it just lets people who can't movement manage, play a spec without having to use their brain.

[rohoz]

BM doesn't do comparable dmg, and the extent of its "utility" is survivability and being able to do escort jobs (again, no escort job needed this tier)

You should re-look into MM, it's rising every week as more and more good players switch and get the gear for it.

If nothing changes, it won't be BM. I'm not saying this as a random shit player speculating what higher end players will be playing, I've literally spoken to high end raiders, players currently progressing on Jaina like myself, or players who have killed it.

It's not a matter of speculation, it's a matter of fact. BM is no longer better than MM for progression raiding.

The whole "BM is the best spec for progression"

Okay so why isn't every raid full of BM hunters in their ranged dps? Oh right, because the dmg is so much worse than other specs they can bring. BM doesn't BRING anything, it just lets people who can't movement manage, play a spec without having to use their brain.

As I said before, MM gets better when guilds are at the point where they focus on damage, not mechanics.

Okay so why isn't every raid full of BM hunters in their ranged dps? Oh right, because the dmg is so much worse than other specs they can bring. BM doesn't BRING anything, it just lets people who can't movement manage, play a spec without having to use their brain.

why bring hunters? lol
MM doesn't compete with any ranged, really. Every prominent ranged spec eats hunters rn

[Emerald Archer]

As I said before, MM gets better when guilds are at the point where they focus on damage, not mechanics.

why bring hunters? lol
MM doesn't compete with any ranged, really. Every prominent ranged spec eats hunters rn

I actually don't understand what on earth you're talking about, why does MM have the restriction of only being good when you focus on damage not mechanics, but every other ranged isn't the same? You're aware that MM is quite mobile compared to other non-bm ranged specs right? And the ST dmg of MM is very strong?

Sure, why bring hunters, but if you do bring hunters, why bring BM over MM? All specs have to deal with mechanics, there are no jobs that BM has to do, so WHY.

You're repeating the same meaningless garbage that everyone does about BM, but you haven't said what BM can magically do, that makes them never needed in raid, but also makes them better than MM? MM does more damage than BM, both deal with mechanics, BM does less damage than MM even on high movement encounters. So what on earth is BM doing in your head?

It's a shame you clearly don't know how MM performs in the current meta. The only reason it isn't up there with the top specs, is because of the fact that this raid design favours dotters, the second you look at a fight like Mekka, MM is up there. So it's completely down to raid design to work out how it would perform, this raid not so great (though decent on jaina, the only real fight in the raid)

[RobertMugabe]

"All the classes are the same! They can't make classes interesting anymore!!!"

"DPS difference is more than 5%!!!! Make them the same!!!!"

Pick one.

I haven't seen a comparison this stupid in a very long time. The first "statement" is a complaint about the toolkit and playstyle of a class/spec and the other one is about dps. You can obviously have the same DPS, but a different rotation or a different set of cooldowns.

[bloomy]

well they may have dropped the ball with the expansion but at least they didn't fire hundreds of people just to raise the price of their stock a tiny amount to make investors happy...

[clevin]

I haven't seen a comparison this stupid in a very long time. The first "statement" is a complaint about the toolkit and playstyle of a class/spec and the other one is about dps. You can obviously have the same DPS, but a different rotation or a different set of cooldowns.

Sigh... given your name I shouldn't be surprised at the arrogance I suppose.

If people all want to be the same DPS the tendency is to give them very similar tools. If you don't, you have people complaining that X out bursts them in M+ (actual complaint in the Druid section recently) or you have people complaining that they don't do great AOE or they do great AOE but ST sucks or...

You can give the spells different names and animations, but they tend to converge in what they do.

Also, fuck right off you utter tool.