The state of spec balance is terrible.

[Emerald Archer]

Been that way for Ret the entire expansion. It's just that Ret isn't alone this time at being awfully designed.

It may be poorly designed, but this post is about balance. Ret is currently strong, and is not one of those specs "terribly balanced"

[Aurora]

Raid balance seems fine but I'm really tired of rogues and havoc demon hunters in every mythic+ group

[Doffen]

Spec balance have been "bad" since Vanilla. It won't be 100% balanced, ever. It's a lost cause, and it's not worse in BfA compared to any other expansion.

[CptEgo]

In both raids and mythic+.

This expansion has really dropped the ball.

So many dead specs.

No different than every other expansion. WoW is 14 years old and people have been whining just like you for all of those 14 years.

[durrtygoodz]

as a warrior, and surely other specs like DK or paladins feel the same, that DH and rogues dominate us in every single aspect that it is bullshit, if you are a melee that is not DH or rogue, u are just flatout unwanted and have hardtime, esp in M+'s, and in the raids u are brought up for some bosses, and when they want to bench someone, the first roll out those weak ass specs, which is really unfun to be burden because u are playing the class u love.

We killed Jaina with a warrior, a ret, and a frost DK lmao

[Teaon]

We killed Jaina with a warrior, a ret, and a frost DK lmao

there are ferals who killed Jaina, doesn't magically makes the spec good? what flawed logic is that?

[ONCHEhap]

Balance is quite close right now,even if people will cherry pick graphs with poor display of statistics to make a point

[Poe]

You also seem to underestimate how far behind BM is going to get over the next few weeks, do you not realise the scaling difference between BM and other specs?

I get that you're a BM hunter and you want to do as much dps as everyone else while still maintaining 100% mobility, I really do. But arguing that you "should" be able to do more dps is a weak argument.

[durrtygoodz]

there are ferals who killed Jaina, doesn't magically makes the spec good? what flawed logic is that?

I'm not arguing the spec was good. I'm arguing against the OP which stated that 1. Spec balance is terrible and 2. There are "dead specs" in the game. If you can kill the end game boss with the so called "dead specs" then how can they be dead?

[Nitros14]

I'm not arguing the spec was good. I'm arguing against the OP which stated that 1. Spec balance is terrible and 2. There are "dead specs" in the game. If you can kill the end game boss with the so called "dead specs" then how can they be dead?

When there's 2,000 mythic Feral parses and 38,000 mythic Balance parses I believe there is a case to be made that the spec is dead.

[durrtygoodz]

When there's 2,000 mythic Feral parses and 38,000 mythic Balance parses I believe there is a case to be made that the spec is dead.

You're argument has changed from balance, to popularity.

[Emerald Archer]

I get that you're a BM hunter and you want to do as much dps as everyone else while still maintaining 100% mobility, I really do. But arguing that you "should" be able to do more dps is a weak argument.

You can hide behind that poor argument, or you could tell me why BM should do significantly less than every other spec in all scenarios including high movement encounters.

I don't think BM should beat everyone, I think BM should be the lowest dps on all encounters except for high movement ones where it would become mid-pack. Currently that's not the case, and it only getting worse.

I explained pretty well why your mobility argument makes no sense, I'd appreciate if you didn't hide behind "hurr ur opinion dun matter cus u probs a bm playa" and instead had a proper discussion.

- - - Updated - - -

When there's 2,000 mythic Feral parses and 38,000 mythic Balance parses I believe there is a case to be made that the spec is dead.

Feral is an unpopular spec since always, melee is a highly competitive area as you can only bring a few, so when on top of that you have an unpopular spec, as well as the fact it has been pretty bad in the past, it's going to be pretty uncommon to see many ferals around.

Feral is currently quite good on ST, unsure about cleave and aoe etc, but its kit is solid for this raid, which is why there have been a couple ferals who have killed Jaina already.

Decently balanced specs can be unpopular, especially if they're melee.

[Poe]

I think BM should be the lowest dps on all encounters .

I'm glad we could agree on something.

[Emerald Archer]

I'm glad we could agree on something.

I mean sure, if you didn't want to have a conversation and would rather shitpost, an earlier warning would have been nice. Rather than talking to someone who doesn't actually know why they have an opinion they have

[FelPlague]

In both raids and mythic+.

This expansion has really dropped the ball.

So many dead specs.

s like in every patch in history.
there will always be a top, and always be a bottom... no matter what

[MrExcelion]

Last tier they focused on Azerite tuning for spec balancing, not much in the way of bringing the high ones down, just the low ones up later in the tier

This tier they're "done" with azerite tuning because of the M+ vendor, but individual spec tuning should be due already. They also will balance trinkets as needed. The Codex from Jaina isn't very good, and Bonded Souls/Seductive Power are really weak

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Usually a couple of weeks into the tier.

[Orwell7]

there are ferals who killed Jaina, doesn't magically makes the spec good? what flawed logic is that?

Actually, this means that there is nothing "wrong" with the spec.

On one hand, this shows that Blizz CAN do balance - however, I'd like to see their "simulations" and maybe the developer boards on HOW they decide the utility/damage factors.
Instead of the silence, Blizz could release a pro-guide on the lesser played / non-meta specs. That would shake up the game a little!

But I guess Blizzard rockstar devs don't think we, the poor peasants, deserve their wisdom.

[Nitros14]

You're argument has changed from balance, to popularity.

Well no my argument is still that some specs are too good at everything and some specs are too bad at every fight.

But feral is pretty dead from a popularity perspective too.

Method could probably 19-man mythic Jaina at this point with the gear they have now doesn't mean that taking 19 people is good.

[Mightytasty]

Spec balance isn't that bad. What is bad is the level of meta slavery that is occurring at anything outside top 1%. Everyone now is a sim whore meta slave. Play what you want. Don't put up with people demanding you play best class/spec for H or non top 100 mythic. Its absurd but the community can just change its toxic attitude.

Ah, my #1 complaint about Overwatch. It’s honestly not as bad in WoW especially if you have a cool guild. But man I fucking agree so much.

[Marrilaife]

Last tier they focused on Azerite tuning for spec balancing, not much in the way of bringing the high ones down, just the low ones up later in the tier

This tier they're "done" with azerite tuning because of the M+ vendor, but individual spec tuning should be due already. They also will balance trinkets as needed. The Codex from Jaina isn't very good, and Bonded Souls/Seductive Power are really weak

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Usually a couple of weeks into the tier.

The azerite power balance is pretty out of whack, some classes have very powerful ones you can stack to great benefit, while some other have below mediocre ones to the point class traits are weaker than dungeon traits (frost dk comes to mind).

They also nerfed fire mage traits that were "much better than the other traits" and while it makes sense to bring traits in line with each other, it makes much less sense to completely forget it drags the class down when you nerf their best traits. The only spec that got compensatory buffs for class trait nerfs was mm hunters and for a good reason.

They should look into the whole system instead of disconnected parts of it. A class has op trait? Ok, nerf it, but look into how much it's gonna impact the spec as a whole. A class has only weak traits? Buff them or add new ones. Deciding whether to nerf strong traits or buff weak ones to compete should be made keeping in mind how strong is the spec in the picture.

Now that we have extra ring the fact some specs benefitted disproportionally from double traits in comparison to others... I dunno was Blizzard blind they didn't predict this will happen?