Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
... LastLast
  1. #81
    Over 9000! Freighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Daegu, South Korea
    Posts
    9,285
    Quote Originally Posted by Raptor With a Saber View Post
    You can keep trying to derail it all you want but the matter as i originally said and will keep saying is its not the same because one rules through fear one through treating well.
    Do you think the people in China live in fear?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro View Post
    Do you think the people in China live in fear?
    nope, just the ones in tibet/hk
    WORLD POPULATION
    U.S pop 318.2 million,Mexico pop 122.3 million ,Russia 143.5 million S.K 50.22 million China 1.357 billion ,United Kingdom 64.1 million, Europe "as a whole" 742.5 million, Canada 35.16 million, South America 387.5 million,Africa 1.111 billion , Middle east 205 Million , Asia "not counting china" 3.009 B ,Greenland 56k,, Iceland 323k, S/N pole 1k-5k/2k

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro View Post
    Do you think the people in China live in fear?
    Those opposing the goverment(i.e the marxist youth) do.

  4. #84
    Honestly, who cares if China is occupying another country - what in the duck are we going to do about it? Take this into perspective: the amount of women eligible to be drafted into military service in China is bigger than the ENTIRE US population, man, women, children, sick and old. Ever heard of the ducking UNDERGROUND GREAT WALL? Yep, China's been building it for decades, a tunnel system estimated to be longer than the distance between the East and West coasts of the United States - dedicated entirely to military purposes. Don't duck with China motherduckers, the 1940s will never happen again. I'm not some basement dweller who's never left my city either, traveling China I saw myself - they had propaganda everywhere, workers marching in formation, and the most impressive infrastructure you can imagine. Bomb shelters were in every city, and their Russian S-400 missiles are capable of shooting down just about everything we have in the air - not to forget their nuclear capable hyper sonic missile delivery systems, high tech gliders capable of advanced maneuvering to penetrate any airspace. They have missiles specifically designed to destroy satellites, enough to cause a catastrophic chain reaction that would practically send us back to the 1950s. I could go on, really. Point is, if you aren't at least wary of China - you should be. They're a threat to be reckoned with, and they have not just the world in their sights - but the stars too. Liberating ducking Tibet is the least of our concerns.
    Last edited by DesmondCreighton; 2019-02-18 at 01:34 AM.

  5. #85
    I am Murloc! bungeebungee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Dongbei, PRC
    Posts
    5,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Raptor With a Saber
    The choice of the people and them able to live without fear of the ruling gov raining hellfire down on them for just wanting a voice is all that matters.
    WTF are you even on about? Raining hellfire? Just wanting a voice? You *really* need to produce some facts and sources.

    Do I want people as slaves? No, but apparently you do because that was 90% of Tibet under the theocracy. Tibet has been one of China's autonomous regions since the 1960s -- depending on whether one views the first general election or the first session of the first People's Congress, and those former serfs now get a voice that was denied to them under the Dalai Lama. That's having a voice, it may not be set up exactly the way you want it to be set up, but it is a voice and one that they never had before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinro
    Do you think the people in China live in fear?
    Sadly, he does. It plays to his fantasy, which is unfortunately the same one that had people expecting Iraq and Afghanistan to greet American troops as they were greeted by Italians during WWII and the Liberation of Rome. It is a fantasy where things like Ferguson and Kent State could never happen, but protesters in HK ... I don't know what the hell he thinks is going on, apparently they're in fear that China is going to napalm HK?
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N
    Wtf? No weapons? xD What is this? Restricted training environment?
    Commenting on "anything goes" for martial arts and self defense

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    WTF are you even on about? Raining hellfire? Just wanting a voice? You *really* need to produce some facts and sources.

    Do I want people as slaves? No, but apparently you do because that was 90% of Tibet under the theocracy. Tibet has been one of China's autonomous regions since the 1960s -- depending on whether one views the first general election or the first session of the first People's Congress, and those former serfs now get a voice that was denied to them under the Dalai Lama. That's having a voice, it may not be set up exactly the way you want it to be set up, but it is a voice and one that they never had before.
    Honestly, it is a complicated issue, but while he's biased, you're sort of white-washing as well. The Chinese murdered a lot of monks and burned countless monasteries when they invaded Tibet. And no, not just lamas who held people in serfdom, they murdered plenty of acolytes and harmless monks as well.

    Like I said, as someone from a small country, the lesson is clear, big, powerful nations all act like assholes. Where someone's bias shows is which asshole behavior they defend.
    No ideology has been more murderous or detrimental to human dignity than Communism
    Quote Originally Posted by kidkilla View Post
    The Ottomans brought civilization to Greece.
    Oh my...

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    WTF are you even on about? Raining hellfire? Just wanting a voice? You *really* need to produce some facts and sources.

    Do I want people as slaves? No, but apparently you do because that was 90% of Tibet under the theocracy. Tibet has been one of China's autonomous regions since the 1960s -- depending on whether one views the first general election or the first session of the first People's Congress, and those former serfs now get a voice that was denied to them under the Dalai Lama. That's having a voice, it may not be set up exactly the way you want it to be set up, but it is a voice and one that they never had before.



    Sadly, he does. It plays to his fantasy, which is unfortunately the same one that had people expecting Iraq and Afghanistan to greet American troops as they were greeted by Italians during WWII and the Liberation of Rome. It is a fantasy where things like Ferguson and Kent State could never happen, but protesters in HK ... I don't know what the hell he thinks is going on, apparently they're in fear that China is going to napalm HK?
    Everytime Tib/Hk has wanted anything normally a voice or to be there own they get beat into submission with fear. What do you think would happen if a war actually happened for their freedom? [rhetorical]

    Answer for me all you want also idc, you just keep going on for no reason. You started all of this because i said they werent the same. They arent, youre wrong just face it. Your replies are senseless and off the topic this was originally about between us which you dont stick too. They arent the same, china keeps tib in their grasp through fear. All they do to threat this and that and you know. Just stop it already youre messing with my notifications not adding anything to what you first replied too. Ive said what i needed, you havent. Youve also been nothing but aggressive and unfriendly this entire discussion. Have fun doing w/e you do.

    You keep trying to put words in my mouth also and skirt around the original thing. Im done, youre not someone constructive or worth anymore time. You bring up things that are vastly different. Just stop and learn more about what you defend.

    Last edit: When you do undoubtedly reply to this, you will either be more civil or finally touch on the original point but its pointless now. Also probably have more veiled insults in it also. Course there is the chance now that i pointed out how you 'discuss' things you will change it up. Either way you proved youre not worth talking with.
    Last edited by Raptor With a Saber; 2019-02-18 at 02:07 AM.
    WORLD POPULATION
    U.S pop 318.2 million,Mexico pop 122.3 million ,Russia 143.5 million S.K 50.22 million China 1.357 billion ,United Kingdom 64.1 million, Europe "as a whole" 742.5 million, Canada 35.16 million, South America 387.5 million,Africa 1.111 billion , Middle east 205 Million , Asia "not counting china" 3.009 B ,Greenland 56k,, Iceland 323k, S/N pole 1k-5k/2k

  8. #88
    Warchief Mrbleedinggums's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    All Jalapeno Face
    Posts
    2,175
    China and Tibet is as synonymous with Republicans in America with Socialis... err sorry I meant Nazi Communism
    "Why of course the people don't want war…. But, after all… it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    The way China works, it's better off being ran by the communist party than a capitalist party. Capitalism is modern slavery.
    China is more like a capitalistic totalitarian country that calls itself communist. The only thing not 100% capitalist about China is that the party can control the economy way more than most other countries. It's kind of the worst of both systems - political slavery because they have no real political rights and economic dependence on what the richer party members want.

    And these kids that come from China to study at foreign universities are very likely to come from rich, connected families because those are the people who can afford that kind of education. IMO if they can't abide by the customs of the countries they are studying in (like threatening other students because they are some underclass in China), they should be expelled and sent back to China. The university can admit more domestic students to make up for the loss of tuition. Most of these students move back to China after they graduate anyway, so it is not like Canada is losing some kind of innovative talent.

  10. #90
    There's so much cluelessness about China here;
    Tibet and Xinjiang are both parts of China;
    Chinese are very nationalistic and "sensitive" about national integrity;

    Hong Kongers are mostly pro-China, there are some brainwashed "localists" who are supported by UK/USA bag-men, but this is a very small group;

    Taiwan is not better than China, majority of the Taiwanese i know (and who often travel to China) think that Taiwan is stagnant and admire the development/progress in China, on the other hand some Taiwanese dumbasses who constantly talk shit about China - most of them have never been in China and blindly worship the US.

    China is 200% correct in their hard-handed approach to troubled regions and separatist movements funded and supported by the US - for the sake for stirring up trouble. US is so "concerned" about Human rights in countries that are not under US boot. Why isnt the US "conderned" anymore about human rights in "liberated" countries like Libya, Iraq, Haiti, Ukriane, some c in South America or Yemen? US ally - KSA, can murder journalists who criticize the regime in their embassies and US will help them sweep it under the rug LOL. Talk about hypocrisy.

    PS. im not Chinese myself but i lived in China for many years, including HK/Taiwan.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by RussianGoblin View Post
    There's so much cluelessness about China here;
    Tibet and Xinjiang are both parts of China;
    Chinese are very nationalistic and "sensitive" about national integrity;

    Hong Kongers are mostly pro-China, there are some brainwashed "localists" who are supported by UK/USA bag-men, but this is a very small group;

    Taiwan is not better than China, majority of the Taiwanese i know (and who often travel to China) think that Taiwan is stagnant and admire the development/progress in China, on the other hand some Taiwanese dumbasses who constantly talk shit about China - most of them have never been in China and blindly worship the US.

    China is 200% correct in their hard-handed approach to troubled regions and separatist movements funded and supported by the US - for the sake for stirring up trouble. US is so "concerned" about Human rights in countries that are not under US boot. Why isnt the US "conderned" anymore about human rights in "liberated" countries like Libya, Iraq, Haiti, Ukriane, some c in South America or Yemen? US ally - KSA, can murder journalists who criticize the regime in their embassies and US will help them sweep it under the rug LOL. Talk about hypocrisy.

    PS. im not Chinese myself but i lived in China for many years, including HK/Taiwan.
    Tldr of your post: China is great and love genocide....scum
    Why join the navy when you can be a pirate

  12. #92
    I am Murloc! bungeebungee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Dongbei, PRC
    Posts
    5,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos
    Honestly, it is a complicated issue, but while he's biased, you're sort of white-washing as well. The Chinese murdered a lot of monks and burned countless monasteries when they invaded Tibet. And no, not just lamas who held people in serfdom, they murdered plenty of acolytes and harmless monks as well.
    A fair enough criticism. I'd be interested to hear you expand on some of your points though.

    My understanding, and I don't have all the information, is that there were basically three tiers to Tibetan society -- the religious, the wealthy, and the serfs. Each tier had layers within it, but each had a certain role. You divide the religious group into lamas, acolytes, and simply monks. My understanding may be flawed, but weren't all of the religious group tied to the monasteries, with the serfs bound to the monastery and all the monks benefiting from serfdom?

    I can't speak directly to the monasteries that were destroyed, but if they followed the pattern of other monasteries that I'm more familiar with, then they were usable as fortresses and at one point it was an armed conflict. Since the theocracy was just that, they were also symbols and potential rallying points. The loss of history and art is, nevertheless, always something to regret.

    As for the rest of your observation, I'd have to suggest a modification along these lines: "the lesson is clear, at times all nations all act assholes." People too, I've been trying to avoid making this joke, but given your sig I can't help myself. After the Ottoman brought you civilization, at least Elgin kept you from losing your marbles! Tacky, I know, my apologies.

    @ Raptor With a Saber Be well, but you were never talking "with me" and never brought any facts to the discussion. Simply repeating some version of "nuh-uh, you're wrong" does not earn civility. When you learn how to use facts to support opinions, and to provide sources for those facts, feel free to jump back in. Don't worry about veiled insults, I'm usually pretty clear about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne
    IMO if they can't abide by the customs of the countries they are studying in (like threatening other students because they are some underclass in China), they should be expelled and sent back to China.
    I would disagree on "customs" (not observing Thanksgiving for example would be failing to follow customs) but the lines should be clear as far as academic regulations and laws. An academic environment should be open to discussion and differences, but as part of that process there are sometimes clashes and jackassery. It doesn't matter who crosses the lines though, when academic regulations are violated, those violations should be addressed and the regulations enforced. Where laws are broken, there should also be clear consequences -- if the discussion reaches levels of vitriol that cross into threats of physical violence against a person or their property that might be criminal, then they should be investigated and prosecuted. The same should apply to harassment and bullying if they are not addressed by academic rules and do rise to the level of criminality. If, as some articles speculate, there is a foreign intelligence element, then that should also be addressed through the process that would apply to any foreign intelligence activity. This should apply to everyone -- those who favor either side, and those who simply jump in to be jerks.
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N
    Wtf? No weapons? xD What is this? Restricted training environment?
    Commenting on "anything goes" for martial arts and self defense

  13. #93
    Good ol indoctrination of China’s hatred towards Tibet has been embedded into students in another country. Something happens and got offended. If it happened In their country whatever but in ours god damn keep that in your country and not ours.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    It's still a factory but also a much better and powerful nation. Whether it was intentional or not, it wasn't "China" that lifted itself up it's just the extreme stupidity of western countries and their allies.
    Well, let me ask you this - do you believe that, if KMT won the war, China would have been in a better state than it is now? It would have been turned into a factory faster than it was, because KMT would have opened the country right after beating CPC. But KMT had been in rule before, and their rule was mostly characterised by constant in-fighting, enormous corruption, money hoarding and military oppressing all of their opposition. Well, all of that was true for communist China, as well, except the scale of money hoarding was nowhere near. If they stayed in rule, you can be certain that China would stay a neo-colony forever.

    What I'm getting at here is that yes, it was thanks to the investment of the West that China managed to climb out of poverty and backwardness, but the profit from those investments could have been hoarded by the West and their designated puppets. Instead, it was used by CPC to uplift the country. It wasn't some silly trickle-down economy, it was a mass-scale project of using the investments to bring the country to the level of the developed world ASAP. So in this sense, yes, China did uplift itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxos View Post
    When you play the game of MMOs, you win or you go f2p.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    Well, let me ask you this - do you believe that, if KMT won the war, China would have been in a better state than it is now? It would have been turned into a factory faster than it was, because KMT would have opened the country right after beating CPC. But KMT had been in rule before, and their rule was mostly characterised by constant in-fighting, enormous corruption, money hoarding and military oppressing all of their opposition. Well, all of that was true for communist China, as well, except the scale of money hoarding was nowhere near. If they stayed in rule, you can be certain that China would stay a neo-colony forever.

    What I'm getting at here is that yes, it was thanks to the investment of the West that China managed to climb out of poverty and backwardness, but the profit from those investments could have been hoarded by the West and their designated puppets. Instead, it was used by CPC to uplift the country. It wasn't some silly trickle-down economy, it was a mass-scale project of using the investments to bring the country to the level of the developed world ASAP. So in this sense, yes, China did uplift itself.
    1-Making it a factory is good.
    2-Making it a factory earlier is better.
    3-Because South Korea and Japan became western colonies after WW2? Well I think it would still be better for China to be a 'colony' if that means it would be like Japan and South Korea.
    4-No China did not 'uplift' itself. The west and their allies did, China just managed to not sabotage their attempt at least.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    Much more recent is inaccurate
    The US overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii in the 1890s, and offered statehood in the 1950s. Tibet was taken by the Chinese in the 1950s. I'd say that becoming a state and being annexxed are entirely different scenarios. So yes, the US overthrow and take over happened over 50 years before the Chinese take over, and most of the citizens of Hawaii are over it and don't want to leave. It seems that a lot of the citizens of Tibet want out of China as many would have been alive when it happened.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    Well, let me ask you this - do you believe that, if KMT won the war, China would have been in a better state than it is now? It would have been turned into a factory faster than it was, because KMT would have opened the country right after beating CPC. But KMT had been in rule before, and their rule was mostly characterised by constant in-fighting, enormous corruption, money hoarding and military oppressing all of their opposition. Well, all of that was true for communist China, as well, except the scale of money hoarding was nowhere near. If they stayed in rule, you can be certain that China would stay a neo-colony forever.

    What I'm getting at here is that yes, it was thanks to the investment of the West that China managed to climb out of poverty and backwardness, but the profit from those investments could have been hoarded by the West and their designated puppets. Instead, it was used by CPC to uplift the country. It wasn't some silly trickle-down economy, it was a mass-scale project of using the investments to bring the country to the level of the developed world ASAP. So in this sense, yes, China did uplift itself.
    its not just western investment that lifted China, wise-long term thinking and political stability was a major factor. and this is the reason why China will surpass the west pretty soon. Taiwan was ruled by pro-west, kind of, regime, even though they opened up earlier than mainland China, theyre behind the mainland today.
    there are other countries in south east asia where western corporations are establishing factories yet those countries remain backward sh17h0les.
    India is a good example, also a big country with big population, a "vibrant democracy" - and a big stinking hellhole.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by RussianGoblin View Post
    its not just western investment that lifted China, wise-long term thinking and political stability was a major factor. and this is the reason why China will surpass the west pretty soon.
    Define "surpass", because to me it seems to be moving in the wrong direction socially.

  19. #99
    I am Murloc! bungeebungee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Dongbei, PRC
    Posts
    5,013
    Quote Originally Posted by IIBloodXLustII
    The US overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii in the 1890s, and offered statehood in the 1950s. Tibet was taken by the Chinese in the 1950s. I'd say that becoming a state and being annexxed are entirely different scenarios.
    As I said, both have long tails. You make a distinction between "becoming a state" and "being annexed". Why? Under the obligations the US had according to Article 73 of the UN Charter, sovereignty should have been an option and Hawaii should have been prepared to see it as an option:

    to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, and to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory and its peoples and their varying stages of advancement
    Instead, we stacked the deck. The overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii was in the 1890's but statehood finalized the takeover and denied native Hawaiians their last chance at sovereignty, that was 1959.

    The Chinese claim to Tibet goes back over a much longer period, full of on again off again associations that can often be argued from different sides. We are unlikely to see eye to eye on this, but China has at least as valid a historical claim to Tibet as the US ever did to Hawaii. While it is a province of China, Tibet is also an autonomous region with its own local rights.

    Those are things that we can date and look up as matters of history, whether we agree or not, but you make two points that are matters of opinion.

    First, why should Hawaiians ever have needed to "get over it" and if they have then why shoulldn't we also apply that same standard to Tibet ... in 50 or 60 years, they'll get over it?

    Second, you assert: "It seems that a lot of the citizens of Tibet want out of China as many would have been alive when it happened." What's "a lot"? What are your sources? Many of them would have been alive? Life expectancy for a serf was less than 50 years (closer to 40 from what I've read), and roughly 90% of Tibetans were serfs. Being freed and getting access to better food and health care probably added some years, but we're 60 years on now. A serf that was 10 years old would now be 70 and that's on top of what was probably a pretty rough start (likely malnutrition). I'm just not seeing it. I'm also guessing that you see those who are not descendants of native Hawaiians as legitimate, but would not see those who have gone to Tibet over the last 60 years in the same light. That's going to skew your perceptions.
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N
    Wtf? No weapons? xD What is this? Restricted training environment?
    Commenting on "anything goes" for martial arts and self defense

  20. #100
    China has control over Tibet before the creation of United States, you have many sources on internet that testify clearly Tibet was under chinese domination for a very long time(Yuan, Ming, Qing dynasty). 1959 was not an invasion that western media love to portray, the communists decided to removed completely the local theocracy that didnt adhere to their principles.
    Now let's face it. There is not a single nation in our history, that will willingly part with a third of its territory(especially strategic), because the world's population has been deliberately caught in collective hysteria against that nation's behaviour.
    Also note that the quality of life has unquestionably vastly improved in Tibet, we only hear critical voices in media, but i'm certain the majority of tibetans enjoy their new life standard.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •