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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by i9erek View Post
    It's still a factory but also a much better and powerful nation. Whether it was intentional or not, it wasn't "China" that lifted itself up it's just the extreme stupidity of western countries and their allies.
    Well, let me ask you this - do you believe that, if KMT won the war, China would have been in a better state than it is now? It would have been turned into a factory faster than it was, because KMT would have opened the country right after beating CPC. But KMT had been in rule before, and their rule was mostly characterised by constant in-fighting, enormous corruption, money hoarding and military oppressing all of their opposition. Well, all of that was true for communist China, as well, except the scale of money hoarding was nowhere near. If they stayed in rule, you can be certain that China would stay a neo-colony forever.

    What I'm getting at here is that yes, it was thanks to the investment of the West that China managed to climb out of poverty and backwardness, but the profit from those investments could have been hoarded by the West and their designated puppets. Instead, it was used by CPC to uplift the country. It wasn't some silly trickle-down economy, it was a mass-scale project of using the investments to bring the country to the level of the developed world ASAP. So in this sense, yes, China did uplift itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxos View Post
    When you play the game of MMOs, you win or you go f2p.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    Well, let me ask you this - do you believe that, if KMT won the war, China would have been in a better state than it is now? It would have been turned into a factory faster than it was, because KMT would have opened the country right after beating CPC. But KMT had been in rule before, and their rule was mostly characterised by constant in-fighting, enormous corruption, money hoarding and military oppressing all of their opposition. Well, all of that was true for communist China, as well, except the scale of money hoarding was nowhere near. If they stayed in rule, you can be certain that China would stay a neo-colony forever.

    What I'm getting at here is that yes, it was thanks to the investment of the West that China managed to climb out of poverty and backwardness, but the profit from those investments could have been hoarded by the West and their designated puppets. Instead, it was used by CPC to uplift the country. It wasn't some silly trickle-down economy, it was a mass-scale project of using the investments to bring the country to the level of the developed world ASAP. So in this sense, yes, China did uplift itself.
    1-Making it a factory is good.
    2-Making it a factory earlier is better.
    3-Because South Korea and Japan became western colonies after WW2? Well I think it would still be better for China to be a 'colony' if that means it would be like Japan and South Korea.
    4-No China did not 'uplift' itself. The west and their allies did, China just managed to not sabotage their attempt at least.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    Much more recent is inaccurate
    The US overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii in the 1890s, and offered statehood in the 1950s. Tibet was taken by the Chinese in the 1950s. I'd say that becoming a state and being annexxed are entirely different scenarios. So yes, the US overthrow and take over happened over 50 years before the Chinese take over, and most of the citizens of Hawaii are over it and don't want to leave. It seems that a lot of the citizens of Tibet want out of China as many would have been alive when it happened.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    Well, let me ask you this - do you believe that, if KMT won the war, China would have been in a better state than it is now? It would have been turned into a factory faster than it was, because KMT would have opened the country right after beating CPC. But KMT had been in rule before, and their rule was mostly characterised by constant in-fighting, enormous corruption, money hoarding and military oppressing all of their opposition. Well, all of that was true for communist China, as well, except the scale of money hoarding was nowhere near. If they stayed in rule, you can be certain that China would stay a neo-colony forever.

    What I'm getting at here is that yes, it was thanks to the investment of the West that China managed to climb out of poverty and backwardness, but the profit from those investments could have been hoarded by the West and their designated puppets. Instead, it was used by CPC to uplift the country. It wasn't some silly trickle-down economy, it was a mass-scale project of using the investments to bring the country to the level of the developed world ASAP. So in this sense, yes, China did uplift itself.
    its not just western investment that lifted China, wise-long term thinking and political stability was a major factor. and this is the reason why China will surpass the west pretty soon. Taiwan was ruled by pro-west, kind of, regime, even though they opened up earlier than mainland China, theyre behind the mainland today.
    there are other countries in south east asia where western corporations are establishing factories yet those countries remain backward sh17h0les.
    India is a good example, also a big country with big population, a "vibrant democracy" - and a big stinking hellhole.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by RussianGoblin View Post
    its not just western investment that lifted China, wise-long term thinking and political stability was a major factor. and this is the reason why China will surpass the west pretty soon.
    Define "surpass", because to me it seems to be moving in the wrong direction socially.

  6. #106
    Scarab Lord bungeebungee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IIBloodXLustII
    The US overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii in the 1890s, and offered statehood in the 1950s. Tibet was taken by the Chinese in the 1950s. I'd say that becoming a state and being annexxed are entirely different scenarios.
    As I said, both have long tails. You make a distinction between "becoming a state" and "being annexed". Why? Under the obligations the US had according to Article 73 of the UN Charter, sovereignty should have been an option and Hawaii should have been prepared to see it as an option:

    to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, and to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory and its peoples and their varying stages of advancement
    Instead, we stacked the deck. The overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii was in the 1890's but statehood finalized the takeover and denied native Hawaiians their last chance at sovereignty, that was 1959.

    The Chinese claim to Tibet goes back over a much longer period, full of on again off again associations that can often be argued from different sides. We are unlikely to see eye to eye on this, but China has at least as valid a historical claim to Tibet as the US ever did to Hawaii. While it is a province of China, Tibet is also an autonomous region with its own local rights.

    Those are things that we can date and look up as matters of history, whether we agree or not, but you make two points that are matters of opinion.

    First, why should Hawaiians ever have needed to "get over it" and if they have then why shoulldn't we also apply that same standard to Tibet ... in 50 or 60 years, they'll get over it?

    Second, you assert: "It seems that a lot of the citizens of Tibet want out of China as many would have been alive when it happened." What's "a lot"? What are your sources? Many of them would have been alive? Life expectancy for a serf was less than 50 years (closer to 40 from what I've read), and roughly 90% of Tibetans were serfs. Being freed and getting access to better food and health care probably added some years, but we're 60 years on now. A serf that was 10 years old would now be 70 and that's on top of what was probably a pretty rough start (likely malnutrition). I'm just not seeing it. I'm also guessing that you see those who are not descendants of native Hawaiians as legitimate, but would not see those who have gone to Tibet over the last 60 years in the same light. That's going to skew your perceptions.
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N
    Wtf? No weapons? xD What is this? Restricted training environment?
    Commenting on "anything goes" for martial arts and self defense

  7. #107
    China has control over Tibet before the creation of United States, you have many sources on internet that testify clearly Tibet was under chinese domination for a very long time(Yuan, Ming, Qing dynasty). 1959 was not an invasion that western media love to portray, the communists decided to removed completely the local theocracy that didnt adhere to their principles.
    Now let's face it. There is not a single nation in our history, that will willingly part with a third of its territory(especially strategic), because the world's population has been deliberately caught in collective hysteria against that nation's behaviour.
    Also note that the quality of life has unquestionably vastly improved in Tibet, we only hear critical voices in media, but i'm certain the majority of tibetans enjoy their new life standard.

  8. #108
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    Chinese apparently are the modern day Nazi Snowflakes. I can't believe the stuff that these privileged Chinese students are saying. The University of Toronto should be expelling these hateful cretins for all the threats made. Imagine if this were a group of white people saying these exact same kind of things to a black student president?

    It is sad to see that a over a billion Chinese have turned into nationalistic cunts.

  9. #109
    when usa invades other countries but they are ok

  10. #110
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niztheundead87 View Post
    when usa invades other countries but they are ok
    The BIG fucking difference here (and I mean its a big fucking difference) is that Americans have the right to protest about a war. Try the same thing in China and you are sent to a prison camp or massacred by the military.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Yay Evil View Post
    The BIG fucking difference here (and I mean its a big fucking difference) is that Americans have the right to protest about a war. Try the same thing in China and you are sent to a prison camp or massacred by the military.
    and how does that make it good when americans drop tons of bombs in yemen or any other corner of the world

  12. #112
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niztheundead87 View Post
    and how does that make it good when americans drop tons of bombs in yemen or any other corner of the world
    We are not talking about Americas war machine here so you can make a thread about that. This thread is about how indoctrinated and racists the Chinese people are, esp the privileged ones. Whataboutism basically confirms you lost the argument.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Yay Evil View Post
    We are not talking about Americas war machine here so you can make a thread about that. This thread is about how indoctrinated and racists the Chinese people are, esp the privileged ones. Whataboutism basically confirms you lost the argument.
    you can avoid it all you want but usa is the same as the people that get accused here.
    look how many times they invade south america countries.
    usa sells weapons to saudi arabia
    saudi arabia works with isis
    usa weapons reach isis
    usa: pikachu face

  14. #114
    It almost looks like people themselves without any help from chibots deflected this thread and filled it with whataboutism.
    Amazing. Just fricking amazing. I guess China can save some of that propaganda money now.

  15. #115
    when you miss the point

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    And here we can see the true face of China.
    Also a good example of what happens when you have propaganda for decades and you think you are the best shit after sliced bread and are always right.
    To be fair Americans think the same way even without propaganda.

  17. #117
    We (Canada) are already in a bad place with China right now because of our arrest of Meng Wanzhou, CFO of Huawei, China's biggest telecom company. I wouldn't be surprised if they were looking for more ways to pressure, harass, and expand their influence (propaganda) among us, since we (temporarily at least) fucked over their largest spying firm.

  18. #118
    Scarab Lord Mister Cheese's Avatar
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    Asians are the most racist people on the planet. Including to other asians.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Winnie the Pooh Xi View Post
    We are not talking about Americas war machine here so you can make a thread about that. This thread is about how indoctrinated and racists the Chinese people are, esp the privileged ones. Whataboutism basically confirms you lost the argument.
    What name did you change yourself from so you could shitpost in this thread?

  19. #119
    Scarab Lord bungeebungee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Cheese
    What name did you change yourself from so you could shitpost in this thread?

    I think he's trying for edgy and doin' it wrong. Using that avatar and sig in this thread is about like going to a Trump rally and boldly yelling "lock her up!"
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N
    Wtf? No weapons? xD What is this? Restricted training environment?
    Commenting on "anything goes" for martial arts and self defense

  20. #120
    Newsflash: Nobody gives a fuck what exchange students think. About anything. They exist to spend money.
    @thwart <- don't click this and learn his shame
    Newsflash: 2016 Thwart would hate 2019 Thwart! Definitely don't click this either!

    We see you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I am absolutely a jerk, a complete cunt. But I encourage you to rise above.

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