China: Tibetan elected student president in Canada, Chinese students enraged

[TheBeardedOne]

There's so much cluelessness about China here;
Tibet and Xinjiang are both parts of China;
Chinese are very nationalistic and "sensitive" about national integrity;

Hong Kongers are mostly pro-China, there are some brainwashed "localists" who are supported by UK/USA bag-men, but this is a very small group;

Taiwan is not better than China, majority of the Taiwanese i know (and who often travel to China) think that Taiwan is stagnant and admire the development/progress in China, on the other hand some Taiwanese dumbasses who constantly talk shit about China - most of them have never been in China and blindly worship the US.

China is 200% correct in their hard-handed approach to troubled regions and separatist movements funded and supported by the US - for the sake for stirring up trouble. US is so "concerned" about Human rights in countries that are not under US boot. Why isnt the US "conderned" anymore about human rights in "liberated" countries like Libya, Iraq, Haiti, Ukriane, some c in South America or Yemen? US ally - KSA, can murder journalists who criticize the regime in their embassies and US will help them sweep it under the rug LOL. Talk about hypocrisy.

PS. im not Chinese myself but i lived in China for many years, including HK/Taiwan.

Tldr of your post: China is great and love genocide....scum

[shadowmouse]

Honestly, it is a complicated issue, but while he's biased, you're sort of white-washing as well. The Chinese murdered a lot of monks and burned countless monasteries when they invaded Tibet. And no, not just lamas who held people in serfdom, they murdered plenty of acolytes and harmless monks as well.

A fair enough criticism. I'd be interested to hear you expand on some of your points though.

My understanding, and I don't have all the information, is that there were basically three tiers to Tibetan society -- the religious, the wealthy, and the serfs. Each tier had layers within it, but each had a certain role. You divide the religious group into lamas, acolytes, and simply monks. My understanding may be flawed, but weren't all of the religious group tied to the monasteries, with the serfs bound to the monastery and all the monks benefiting from serfdom?

I can't speak directly to the monasteries that were destroyed, but if they followed the pattern of other monasteries that I'm more familiar with, then they were usable as fortresses and at one point it was an armed conflict. Since the theocracy was just that, they were also symbols and potential rallying points. The loss of history and art is, nevertheless, always something to regret.

As for the rest of your observation, I'd have to suggest a modification along these lines: "the lesson is clear, at times all nations all act assholes." People too, I've been trying to avoid making this joke, but given your sig I can't help myself. After the Ottoman brought you civilization, at least Elgin kept you from losing your marbles! Tacky, I know, my apologies.

@ Raptor With a Saber Be well, but you were never talking "with me" and never brought any facts to the discussion. Simply repeating some version of "nuh-uh, you're wrong" does not earn civility. When you learn how to use facts to support opinions, and to provide sources for those facts, feel free to jump back in. Don't worry about veiled insults, I'm usually pretty clear about them.

IMO if they can't abide by the customs of the countries they are studying in (like threatening other students because they are some underclass in China), they should be expelled and sent back to China.

I would disagree on "customs" (not observing Thanksgiving for example would be failing to follow customs) but the lines should be clear as far as academic regulations and laws. An academic environment should be open to discussion and differences, but as part of that process there are sometimes clashes and jackassery. It doesn't matter who crosses the lines though, when academic regulations are violated, those violations should be addressed and the regulations enforced. Where laws are broken, there should also be clear consequences -- if the discussion reaches levels of vitriol that cross into threats of physical violence against a person or their property that might be criminal, then they should be investigated and prosecuted. The same should apply to harassment and bullying if they are not addressed by academic rules and do rise to the level of criminality. If, as some articles speculate, there is a foreign intelligence element, then that should also be addressed through the process that would apply to any foreign intelligence activity. This should apply to everyone -- those who favor either side, and those who simply jump in to be jerks.

[AlmightyGerkin]

Good ol indoctrination of China’s hatred towards Tibet has been embedded into students in another country. Something happens and got offended. If it happened In their country whatever but in ours god damn keep that in your country and not ours.

[Airlick]

It's still a factory but also a much better and powerful nation. Whether it was intentional or not, it wasn't "China" that lifted itself up it's just the extreme stupidity of western countries and their allies.

Well, let me ask you this - do you believe that, if KMT won the war, China would have been in a better state than it is now? It would have been turned into a factory faster than it was, because KMT would have opened the country right after beating CPC. But KMT had been in rule before, and their rule was mostly characterised by constant in-fighting, enormous corruption, money hoarding and military oppressing all of their opposition. Well, all of that was true for communist China, as well, except the scale of money hoarding was nowhere near. If they stayed in rule, you can be certain that China would stay a neo-colony forever.

What I'm getting at here is that yes, it was thanks to the investment of the West that China managed to climb out of poverty and backwardness, but the profit from those investments could have been hoarded by the West and their designated puppets. Instead, it was used by CPC to uplift the country. It wasn't some silly trickle-down economy, it was a mass-scale project of using the investments to bring the country to the level of the developed world ASAP. So in this sense, yes, China did uplift itself.

[Eldar45]

Much more recent is inaccurate

The US overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii in the 1890s, and offered statehood in the 1950s. Tibet was taken by the Chinese in the 1950s. I'd say that becoming a state and being annexxed are entirely different scenarios. So yes, the US overthrow and take over happened over 50 years before the Chinese take over, and most of the citizens of Hawaii are over it and don't want to leave. It seems that a lot of the citizens of Tibet want out of China as many would have been alive when it happened.

[RussianGoblin]

Well, let me ask you this - do you believe that, if KMT won the war, China would have been in a better state than it is now? It would have been turned into a factory faster than it was, because KMT would have opened the country right after beating CPC. But KMT had been in rule before, and their rule was mostly characterised by constant in-fighting, enormous corruption, money hoarding and military oppressing all of their opposition. Well, all of that was true for communist China, as well, except the scale of money hoarding was nowhere near. If they stayed in rule, you can be certain that China would stay a neo-colony forever.

What I'm getting at here is that yes, it was thanks to the investment of the West that China managed to climb out of poverty and backwardness, but the profit from those investments could have been hoarded by the West and their designated puppets. Instead, it was used by CPC to uplift the country. It wasn't some silly trickle-down economy, it was a mass-scale project of using the investments to bring the country to the level of the developed world ASAP. So in this sense, yes, China did uplift itself.

its not just western investment that lifted China, wise-long term thinking and political stability was a major factor. and this is the reason why China will surpass the west pretty soon. Taiwan was ruled by pro-west, kind of, regime, even though they opened up earlier than mainland China, theyre behind the mainland today.
there are other countries in south east asia where western corporations are establishing factories yet those countries remain backward sh17h0les.
India is a good example, also a big country with big population, a "vibrant democracy" - and a big stinking hellhole.

[Noradin]

its not just western investment that lifted China, wise-long term thinking and political stability was a major factor. and this is the reason why China will surpass the west pretty soon.

Define "surpass", because to me it seems to be moving in the wrong direction socially.

[shadowmouse]

The US overthrew the Kingdom of Hawaii in the 1890s, and offered statehood in the 1950s. Tibet was taken by the Chinese in the 1950s. I'd say that becoming a state and being annexxed are entirely different scenarios.

As I said, both have long tails. You make a distinction between "becoming a state" and "being annexed". Why? Under the obligations the US had according to Article 73 of the UN Charter, sovereignty should have been an option and Hawaii should have been prepared to see it as an option:

to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, and to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions, according to the particular circumstances of each territory and its peoples and their varying stages of advancement

Instead, we stacked the deck. The overthrow of the Kingdom of Hawaii was in the 1890's but statehood finalized the takeover and denied native Hawaiians their last chance at sovereignty, that was 1959.

The Chinese claim to Tibet goes back over a much longer period, full of on again off again associations that can often be argued from different sides. We are unlikely to see eye to eye on this, but China has at least as valid a historical claim to Tibet as the US ever did to Hawaii. While it is a province of China, Tibet is also an autonomous region with its own local rights.

Those are things that we can date and look up as matters of history, whether we agree or not, but you make two points that are matters of opinion.

First, why should Hawaiians ever have needed to "get over it" and if they have then why shoulldn't we also apply that same standard to Tibet ... in 50 or 60 years, they'll get over it?

Second, you assert: "It seems that a lot of the citizens of Tibet want out of China as many would have been alive when it happened." What's "a lot"? What are your sources? Many of them would have been alive? Life expectancy for a serf was less than 50 years (closer to 40 from what I've read), and roughly 90% of Tibetans were serfs. Being freed and getting access to better food and health care probably added some years, but we're 60 years on now. A serf that was 10 years old would now be 70 and that's on top of what was probably a pretty rough start (likely malnutrition). I'm just not seeing it. I'm also guessing that you see those who are not descendants of native Hawaiians as legitimate, but would not see those who have gone to Tibet over the last 60 years in the same light. That's going to skew your perceptions.

[Ohmmega]

China has control over Tibet before the creation of United States, you have many sources on internet that testify clearly Tibet was under chinese domination for a very long time(Yuan, Ming, Qing dynasty). 1959 was not an invasion that western media love to portray, the communists decided to removed completely the local theocracy that didnt adhere to their principles.
Now let's face it. There is not a single nation in our history, that will willingly part with a third of its territory(especially strategic), because the world's population has been deliberately caught in collective hysteria against that nation's behaviour.
Also note that the quality of life has unquestionably vastly improved in Tibet, we only hear critical voices in media, but i'm certain the majority of tibetans enjoy their new life standard.

[zEmini]

Chinese apparently are the modern day Nazi Snowflakes. I can't believe the stuff that these privileged Chinese students are saying. The University of Toronto should be expelling these hateful cretins for all the threats made. Imagine if this were a group of white people saying these exact same kind of things to a black student president?

It is sad to see that a over a billion Chinese have turned into nationalistic cunts.

[niztheundead87]

when usa invades other countries but they are ok

[zEmini]

when usa invades other countries but they are ok

The BIG fucking difference here (and I mean its a big fucking difference) is that Americans have the right to protest about a war. Try the same thing in China and you are sent to a prison camp or massacred by the military.

[niztheundead87]

The BIG fucking difference here (and I mean its a big fucking difference) is that Americans have the right to protest about a war. Try the same thing in China and you are sent to a prison camp or massacred by the military.

and how does that make it good when americans drop tons of bombs in yemen or any other corner of the world

[zEmini]

and how does that make it good when americans drop tons of bombs in yemen or any other corner of the world

We are not talking about Americas war machine here so you can make a thread about that. This thread is about how indoctrinated and racists the Chinese people are, esp the privileged ones. Whataboutism basically confirms you lost the argument.

[niztheundead87]

We are not talking about Americas war machine here so you can make a thread about that. This thread is about how indoctrinated and racists the Chinese people are, esp the privileged ones. Whataboutism basically confirms you lost the argument.

you can avoid it all you want but usa is the same as the people that get accused here.
look how many times they invade south america countries.
usa sells weapons to saudi arabia
saudi arabia works with isis
usa weapons reach isis
usa: pikachu face

[Easo]

It almost looks like people themselves without any help from chibots deflected this thread and filled it with whataboutism.
Amazing. Just fricking amazing. I guess China can save some of that propaganda money now.

[niztheundead87]

when you miss the point

[Clone]

And here we can see the true face of China.
Also a good example of what happens when you have propaganda for decades and you think you are the best shit after sliced bread and are always right.

To be fair Americans think the same way even without propaganda.

[Jorgee]

We (Canada) are already in a bad place with China right now because of our arrest of Meng Wanzhou, CFO of Huawei, China's biggest telecom company. I wouldn't be surprised if they were looking for more ways to pressure, harass, and expand their influence (propaganda) among us, since we (temporarily at least) fucked over their largest spying firm.

[Mister Cheese]

Asians are the most racist people on the planet. Including to other asians.

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We are not talking about Americas war machine here so you can make a thread about that. This thread is about how indoctrinated and racists the Chinese people are, esp the privileged ones. Whataboutism basically confirms you lost the argument.

What name did you change yourself from so you could shitpost in this thread?