China: Tibetan elected student president in Canada, Chinese students enraged

[bungeebungee]

Newsflash: Nobody gives a fuck what exchange students think. About anything. They exist to spend money.

Ah, you must be in university administration! If you were a student you'd know they're there to dress in ethnic garb and sell ethnic food (and alcohol where permitted) at international student events.

@Stelio Kontos It doesn't matter why, it doesn't matter who. Law and academic rules should be enforced across the board. If there is a threat of criminal violence (or other criminal act), it doesn't matter if it is a Chinese student or a guy from Calgary just playing the troll, it should be investigated and handled as a crime. If it falls under academic rules, then the university should enforce those. It is small consolation, but if the abuse violated Facebook policy (I recall some things included attacks on Facebook), then those policies should be enforced.

As far as I can tell, we know things were said that might break one or all of those conditions. In fairness, I can't say that I've seen anything *yet* (I would hope this is an ongoing investigation) that establishes who said things. It could be the troll from Calgary, it could be a snarky grandma in Sichuan, it could be students but not students at that campus. Still, to the extent the various remedies can be applied, they should be.

[zEmini]

What name did you change yourself from so you could shitpost in this thread?

I have used many names on this message board. I think that there is actually a way to look it up on my profile. But where am I "shitposting"? Everything I said is pretty much the truth.

[Easo]

To be fair Americans think the same way even without propaganda.

And here goes another person, who just couldn't refrain from using whataboutism. This is about China and their citizens, not USA.

[Mister Cheese]

I have used many names on this message board. I think that there is actually a way to look it up on my profile. But where am I "shitposting"? Everything I said is pretty much the truth.

There isn't. And you know that. Otherwise you wouldn't be changing your name constantly because you want to avoid criticism.

[zEmini]

There isn't. And you know that. Otherwise you wouldn't be changing your name constantly because you want to avoid criticism.

What is the purpose of hiding a already anonymous identity with another one? It isn't like I established rapport with anyone here.

[bungeebungee]

This is about China and their citizens, not USA.

A discussion -- as opposed to an echo chamber -- usually needs more than one side. What's the discussion then, in this thread? Bash China? Dump on Chinese/Asians? That's not a discussion and it would need to be closed since nation bashing threads, like race threads, are banned topics. The OP is phrased as a "have you stopped beating your wife yet" style question, leaving what you dismiss as whataboutism as the only avenue for discussion.

[Rennadrel]

Chinese apparently are the modern day Nazi Snowflakes. I can't believe the stuff that these privileged Chinese students are saying. The University of Toronto should be expelling these hateful cretins for all the threats made. Imagine if this were a group of white people saying these exact same kind of things to a black student president?

It is sad to see that a over a billion Chinese have turned into nationalistic cunts.

They've been like that for a long time. I'd honestly prefer if these students get expelled and removed from Canada, but the universities are chicken shit and won't stand up to their own equality standards because they care more about the money that foreign students spend for an education than they do about their own principles.

[zEmini]

A discussion -- as opposed to an echo chamber -- usually needs more than one side. What's the discussion then, in this thread? Bash China? Dump on Chinese/Asians? That's not a discussion and it would need to be closed since nation bashing threads, like race threads, are banned topics. The OP is phrased as a "have you stopped beating your wife yet" style question, leaving what you dismiss as whataboutism as the only avenue for discussion.

Whataboutism is never a valid arguement and is generally used by someone who has already lost the debate whether they know it or not. I see the same shit in "anti putin" threads.

I also invoke Godwin because bashing the Chinese government would be like bashing Nazi Germany or North Korea. To be honest I do not know which one is worse.

[Easo]

A discussion -- as opposed to an echo chamber -- usually needs more than one side. What's the discussion then, in this thread? Bash China? Dump on Chinese/Asians? That's not a discussion and it would need to be closed since nation bashing threads, like race threads, are banned topics. The OP is phrased as a "have you stopped beating your wife yet" style question, leaving what you dismiss as whataboutism as the only avenue for discussion.

I fail to see any reason why bashing on the current state of China would be bad. There is no love lost for autocratic regimes nor should there ever be.
We also have to consider China and by proxy their citizens being unable to accept any criticism, no matter how valid.
Half of this thread is just "but but but America/Americans do this and that" anyway, so... it all started with whataboutism in the first place.

[bungeebungee]

I also invoke Godwin because bashing the Chinese government would be like bashing Nazi Germany or North Korea. To be honest I do not know which one is worse.

Are you misusing Godwin's law, or have you failed to expand enough on your point to make it clear?

Godwin’s law is the proposition that the longer an internet argument goes on, the higher the probability becomes that something or someone will be compared to Adolf Hitler.

Whataboutism is never a valid arguement

Making an imbalanced assertion and then trying to control discussion by invoking "whataboutism" is a rhetorical device to avoid addressing awkward omissions or comparisons. It is essentially a variation on the "no true Scotsman" fallacy:

No true Scotsman or appeal to purity is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample.[1][2] Rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"; i.e., those who perform that action are not part of our group and thus criticism of that action is not criticism of the group).[3]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Calling that out is necessary or all that exists is an echo chamber. This thread, for example, uses a source that omits that the student in question is Canadian (see infra), to set up the proposition that it is unquestionable that Tibet is an occupied nation. There could easily have been a discussion, based on the article, of the way she was treated. In the alternative, it could have been spun off into a discussion of Tibet's status, but that wasn't done either. Should all comparisons or counter examples be blindly accepted? No, no more than they should be blindly dismissed. A rational discussion uses facts or examples that can be checked to explain and bolster opinions and disagreements should be similarly supported.

By noon, her phone was buzzing incessantly with notifications. But instead of messages of congratulations, Lhamo — a Canadian citizen of Tibetan origin — realized a photo she’d posted on Instagram for the Lunar New Year was attracting thousands of hateful comments, most rife with anti-Tibet sentiment, some threatening.

Source: https://multiculturalmeanderings.com...ign-influence/

We also have to consider China and by proxy their citizens being unable to accept any criticism, no matter how valid.

That's a pretty sweeping generalization there, capped with a hefty assumption. That you believe something to be valid does not make it necessarily so, nor are either of us in the position to know what roughly a billion and a half people think.

[De thuong]

Why is this forum filled with idiots who wants to dictate how people in other countries should live according to their own cultural perspectives? You can't accept that people might be happy with the way things are in other countries? They must be living in fear? Be oppressed? Because they're not opposing it? Not everyone have to live by your culture and political system. Fucking idiots who think their culture and system is superior just because they agree with it and are incapable of seeing that others might want other ways to live than they do, other things they value in life, other goals. Having a different culture and system does not mean someone is living in fear or is oppressed.

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The BIG fucking difference here (and I mean its a big fucking difference) is that Americans have the right to protest about a war. Try the same thing in China and you are sent to a prison camp or massacred by the military.

No, you won't be sent to prison camp or be massacred if you protest about a war. Just don't be an idiot about it.

[Sezh]

I can't even muster any anger, it's just hearbreakingly sad really. Imagine living in a dictatorship where the regime brainwashes you daily. You're don't even stand a chance from birth.

[zEmini]

Why is this forum filled with idiots who wants to dictate how people in other countries should live according to their own cultural perspectives? You can't accept that people might be happy with the way things are in other countries? They must be living in fear? Be oppressed? Because they're not opposing it? Not everyone have to live by your culture and political system. Fucking idiots who think their culture and system is superior just because they agree with it and are incapable of seeing that others might want other ways to live than they do, other things they value in life, other goals. Having a different culture and system does not mean someone is living in fear or is oppressed.

No, you won't be sent to prison camp or be massacred if you protest about a war. Just don't be an idiot about it.

Because this is the 21st century and totalitarian dictatorships (and the people who support them) should be criticized and judged by the rest of the civilized world. This is esp true if said dictatorship has the power to wipe all life off the face of the earth.

Warning if you live in China, do not click the link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_T...quare_protests

[Kangodo]

Do you care that China is occupying another country?

China isn't occupying another country.

And posting news from Taiwan about China is just.. sigh.

[Jinro]

Warning if you live in China, do not click the link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_T...quare_protests

What the fuck? @bungeebungee has linked that in past discussions, quoted from the supposedly banned content. Nothing has happened to him for that. I think you don't have any idea about China, to be honest.

[zEmini]

What the fuck? @bungeebungee has linked that in past discussions, quoted from the supposedly banned content. Nothing has happened to him for that. I think you don't have any idea about China, to be honest.

It says within the Wiki link that China has been censoring the massacre for decades. It marks the end of China's free press and the beginning of state run media. I was posting a friendly warning that is all.

[tumppu]

Obligatory "fuck china" post.

Tibet must be free, just like Taiwan must be free.

[tumppu]

What the fuck? @bungeebungee has linked that in past discussions, quoted from the supposedly banned content. Nothing has happened to him for that. I think you don't have any idea about China, to be honest.

It's pretty simple. China is a dictatorship run under a one party system where information is severely censored and limited. Claiming that there's no problem is practically saying it's fine to censor shit. That you in the S.K. are doing this, makes me wonder if you actually are even reading your own posts. You know, N.K. is majorly supported by china and they would like nothing more than to plow your freedoms into the sea.

Also, we have no proof that bungeebungee is actually a person who can post what he wants, when he wants. There's plenty of russian propaganda posters around here, no reason to think there's no chinese propaganda posters.

[Jinro]

It says within the Wiki link that China has been censoring the massacre for decades. It marks the end of China's free press and the beginning of state run media. I was posting a friendly warning that is all.

RE: Tiananmen square protests

It is perfectly legal to have a civil discussion about the shortcomings of the goverment(I have attended two such events in Beijing with more than 500 participants), its also legal to discuss Tiananmen Square both the overreaction from the goverment and the politcal background it stemmed from. What isnt legal is trying to rile up the public with talks about "Reigniting the revolution" and "Tear down the goverment".

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It's pretty simple. China is a dictatorship run under a one party system where information is severely censored and limited. Claiming that there's no problem is practically saying it's fine to censor shit. That you in the S.K. are doing this, makes me wonder if you actually are even reading your own posts. You know, N.K. is majorly supported by china and they would like nothing more than to plow your freedoms into the sea.

So what? We have censorship on certain things here in South Korea as well although the only one I've encountered personally is porn pages being blocked. It's pretty common for countries in Asia to censor a lot of things on internet, not something unique to China. For example, Thailand prevented access to the Daily Mail because they were posting inappropriate pictures members of royal family.

You act like they're being kept in ignorance of the world, that's simply not the case. Plenty have relatives abroad, plenty have lived abroad, plenty have have traveled the world and experienced other countries.

Also, we have no proof that bungeebungee is actually a person who can post what he wants, when he wants. There's plenty of russian propaganda posters around here, no reason to think there's no chinese propaganda posters.

Seriously? Are we resorting to conspiracy theories now?

[bungeebungee]

Seriously? Are we resorting to conspiracy theories now?

Thanks Jinro, let 'em run with it. They can't see outside the groups they've got everything pigeonholed into -- no more than the last guy to give you a headache with the Yellow Fever routine can see you as a person without superimposing some idea of what you should be (in his mind) because you're Asian and female. For many of the people talking in broad terms about China and Chinese, that's the problem they don't have enough experience to see anything but stereotypes.

I really should just let them chant away and save my breath, but those faceless, inscrutable Chinese are people to me. Those are my friends, my family, my students. They are equally the jackass trying to bull his way onto the subway no matter who he crushes, or the person who sees me standing in the snow with a post surgical walking shoe and cane and puts me in a tuk-tuk on his own dime to get me to the hospital. I find the high context low context model useful for cross culture communication, but within that framework people have their own individual quirks and aren't just "those people". I'm not going to get anyone to expand their own thinking, but I can put another side out there for any readers to consider and weigh.

The hilarious thing for me is that I'll have Global Perspectives as one of my courses again in the Spring semester. I'll walk back into the classroom and I'll have to field every bit of idiocy they've "learned" from watching US TV shows and listening to rap music. I'll have to explain that lynchings aren't really a thing in the US, that not everyone weights 200 lbs or more, that someone getting shot is news because most days are quiet and people don't get shot, and that ordinary people living ordinary lives aren't really that different from them. As you observed, lots of them have family or family friends overseas, and at least a couple of times a semester I'll have to field a question about something they were told. It is not uncommon for those questions to include some variation on "how can they be so stupid?"