China: Tibetan elected student president in Canada, Chinese students enraged

[Freighter]

It says within the Wiki link that China has been censoring the massacre for decades. It marks the end of China's free press and the beginning of state run media. I was posting a friendly warning that is all.

RE: Tiananmen square protests

It is perfectly legal to have a civil discussion about the shortcomings of the goverment(I have attended two such events in Beijing with more than 500 participants), its also legal to discuss Tiananmen Square both the overreaction from the goverment and the politcal background it stemmed from. What isnt legal is trying to rile up the public with talks about "Reigniting the revolution" and "Tear down the goverment".

- - - Updated - - -

It's pretty simple. China is a dictatorship run under a one party system where information is severely censored and limited. Claiming that there's no problem is practically saying it's fine to censor shit. That you in the S.K. are doing this, makes me wonder if you actually are even reading your own posts. You know, N.K. is majorly supported by china and they would like nothing more than to plow your freedoms into the sea.

So what? We have censorship on certain things here in South Korea as well although the only one I've encountered personally is porn pages being blocked. It's pretty common for countries in Asia to censor a lot of things on internet, not something unique to China. For example, Thailand prevented access to the Daily Mail because they were posting inappropriate pictures members of royal family.

You act like they're being kept in ignorance of the world, that's simply not the case. Plenty have relatives abroad, plenty have lived abroad, plenty have have traveled the world and experienced other countries.

Also, we have no proof that bungeebungee is actually a person who can post what he wants, when he wants. There's plenty of russian propaganda posters around here, no reason to think there's no chinese propaganda posters.

Seriously? Are we resorting to conspiracy theories now?

[shadowmouse]

Seriously? Are we resorting to conspiracy theories now?

Thanks Jinro, let 'em run with it. They can't see outside the groups they've got everything pigeonholed into -- no more than the last guy to give you a headache with the Yellow Fever routine can see you as a person without superimposing some idea of what you should be (in his mind) because you're Asian and female. For many of the people talking in broad terms about China and Chinese, that's the problem they don't have enough experience to see anything but stereotypes.

I really should just let them chant away and save my breath, but those faceless, inscrutable Chinese are people to me. Those are my friends, my family, my students. They are equally the jackass trying to bull his way onto the subway no matter who he crushes, or the person who sees me standing in the snow with a post surgical walking shoe and cane and puts me in a tuk-tuk on his own dime to get me to the hospital. I find the high context low context model useful for cross culture communication, but within that framework people have their own individual quirks and aren't just "those people". I'm not going to get anyone to expand their own thinking, but I can put another side out there for any readers to consider and weigh.

The hilarious thing for me is that I'll have Global Perspectives as one of my courses again in the Spring semester. I'll walk back into the classroom and I'll have to field every bit of idiocy they've "learned" from watching US TV shows and listening to rap music. I'll have to explain that lynchings aren't really a thing in the US, that not everyone weights 200 lbs or more, that someone getting shot is news because most days are quiet and people don't get shot, and that ordinary people living ordinary lives aren't really that different from them. As you observed, lots of them have family or family friends overseas, and at least a couple of times a semester I'll have to field a question about something they were told. It is not uncommon for those questions to include some variation on "how can they be so stupid?"

[Spiffums]

Do you care that China is occupying another country?

As long as they aren't occupying my country, I don't care.

[Unholyground]

We just need to keep the biggest guns and always have them pointed in the vicinity but not directly at them lol.

[Stelio Kontos]

If someone became student president and seriously demanded that Texas should be freed and given back to Mexico or become independent, wouldn't that person get attacked?
And what if half the world started yelling that shit?

Depends, was Texas brutally conquered having tens of thousands of its population liquidated with thousands more fleeing into a neighboring country? Was said student an actual Texan who had grown up as a refugee in a neighboring country, like this girl was?

Also depends on if I'm discussing this with another rational adult or a fanboy with a sickle and hammer hard-on.

[Theodarzna]

What the US did to Hawaii was bad. They also, in general, don't want to be separated from the US anymore. What China did to Tibet was also very bad and much more recent, and they want freedom.

And Red China is still a valid term. Red referring to a Communist state is accurate, as China is still, if only officially and not in actuality, a Communist state.

I'll call BS on that point. Ethnic Hawaiians are a minority in their own homeland, thus they lack the numbers now to break away, nor would they be allowed to even if they had the numbers.

For the record though, I'd be fine with leveling every mainland Chinese city if it freed Tibet from Mandarin rule.

[Najnaj]

So what? We have censorship on certain things here in South Korea as well although the only one I've encountered personally is porn pages being blocked. It's pretty common for countries in Asia to censor a lot of things on internet, not something unique to China. For example, Thailand prevented access to the Daily Mail because they were posting inappropriate pictures members of royal family.

You act like they're being kept in ignorance of the world, that's simply not the case. Plenty have relatives abroad, plenty have lived abroad, plenty have have traveled the world and experienced other countries.

Unusual point of view when you are from a country split in half and kept that way for the last 30 years by China.

[wunksta]

1. Not a dictatorship.

Under Xi, a lot of changes have been made which may end up with him becoming a dictator. We will see what he does in 2022.

There is nothing wrong with China.

Imprisoning someone because they called Xi a 'steambun' seems like there is something wrong.

[Mehrunes]

China isn't occupying another country.

And posting news from Taiwan about China is just.. sigh.

It's much better to post news from China written personally by Chinese apparatchiks, amirite?

1. Not a dictatorship.
2. Not a one party system.
3. Okay, so they censor? I really don't care.

1. Ahahahaha. You are so full of it. Here, Article 1 of Chinese constitution. Text from the version including the latest amendments from 2018.

The People's Republic of China is a socialist state under the people's democratic DICTATORSHIP led by the working class and based on the alliance of workers and peasants.

If you want to dedicate your life to shilling for China, at least read their fundamental law so you have a clue what you are talking about. Or at least the first goddamn article of it.
2. Riiiight. United Front is "only" outright managed and subservient to the CPC, and must accept its leading role in the government as a condition of their very existence. True political pluralism right there.
3. So you don't care about human rights of people in China? How pro-Chinese people of you. And even more left wing of you.

There is nothing wrong with China.
It might be hard to grasp for fanatics like you, but in the worldwide stage they are not the bad guys. WE ARE.

You just admitted they use censorship. But hey, nothing wrong with China. Mistreatment of Uyghurs? That some of your own sources admitted (when you tried to dismiss that notion altogether)? Nah, that's swell. Xi Jinping getting rid of term limits so he can be president for life, despite those limits having in put in place specifically to prevent another Mao is also fantastic. So is their aggressive expansionism in South China Sea. Or their economic expansion to Africa and South America, in order to made countries there dependent on them in a neo-colonial bid for global influence. Or their deliberate devaluation of currencies to destabilize financial markets. Or invasion of Tibet.

You do know it's forbidden according to the forum rules to accuse people of trolling?

So is peddling conspiracy theories. Just saying.

You act like they're being kept in ignorance of the world, that's simply not the case. Plenty have relatives abroad, plenty have lived abroad, plenty have have traveled the world and experienced other countries.

It's fascinating that you try to defend Chinese government's behavior here with "welp, the people that leave China are not ignorant about the world!". Great argument. Too bad for the untold millions of Chinese people that don't do that and are subjected to the glorious great firewall of China that has the exact purpose of keeping the population ignorant about what the Chinese government doesn't want them to know.

[Tolbybolton]

1 thing we can all agree on in the states is that Trump is right being tough on China. Disgusting anti-human rights anti-democracy country.

[Zoranon]

1 thing we can all agree on in the states is that Trump is right being tough on China. Disgusting anti-human rights anti-democracy country.

The funniest thing is that China, unlike some other dictatorships does not even bother to hide that is it not democratic, I mean their constitution outright states so. Of course that does not stop deluded western leftists from claiming otherwise.

Oh well, goes to prove yet again how despicable the far left is.

[Freighter]

It's fascinating that you try to defend Chinese government's behavior here with "welp, the people that leave China are not ignorant about the world!". Great argument. Too bad for the untold millions of Chinese people that don't do that and are subjected to the glorious great firewall of China that has the exact purpose of keeping the population ignorant about what the Chinese government doesn't want them to know.

Your reply is simply straying into conspiracy theory territory, either that or gross ignorance. I can't access porn sites in South Korea, yet I know about them. Amazing, isn't it? How can I know about them even though it's blocked here? It's impossible that I could know of them because they're blocked.

[shadowmouse]

@Jinro Unpossible! The Great Firewall is very effective. It keeps Chinese universities from hiring foreigners to teach things like US Constitutional Law, to Chinese students. There are also no foreign universities with programs in China and no exchange programs. Chinese high schools never use programs like Cambridge International Examinations or AP. Relatives returning home from overseas for things like Spring Festival never talk or share pictures. There are no Chinese working for foreign companies in China, and they certainly never go abroad to work. Chinese students never come back to work in China after studying abroad. There are no Chinese tourists, and foreigners in China never sit around and talk with Chinese.

Cisco did a hell of a job, eh?

Edit: For a dated assessment that still seems to me on point: https://cs.stanford.edu/people/erobe...n-2/index.html

The short version, their conclusion, runs as follows:

The power of Chinese citizens cannot be underestimated, and the agency the average citizen has as a result of the internet, no matter how censored it may be, cannot be underestimated. In general rhetoric the image of the Chinese citizen is one of subservience to all-powerful and overwhelming government oppression. In truth, as always, the situation is a bit more complicated. With the ability of the internet to stir up outrage and uncover information, as well as connect disconnected parties, the Chinese citizen can still speak out and effect change against their government.

[Lil Sparkie]

@Jinro Unpossible! The Great Firewall is very effective. It keeps Chinese universities from hiring foreigners to teach things like US Constitutional Law, to Chinese students. There are also no foreign universities with programs in China and no exchange programs. Chinese high schools never use programs like Cambridge International Examinations or AP. Relatives returning home from overseas for things like Spring Festival never talk or share pictures. There are no Chinese working for foreign companies in China, and they certainly never go abroad to work. Chinese students never come back to work in China after studying abroad. There are no Chinese tourists, and foreigners in China never sit around and talk with Chinese.

Cisco did a hell of a job, eh?

Edit: For a dated assessment that still seems to me on point: https://cs.stanford.edu/people/erobe...n-2/index.html

The short version, their conclusion, runs as follows:

I have a friend living in China, she gets around every block by connecting to a VPN set up by her brother at her home. They've managed to block it 2 times but he just has to disconnect and change some things and it's up and running again.

[shadowmouse]

I have a friend living in China, she gets around every block by connecting to a VPN set up by her brother at her home. They've managed to block it 2 times but he just has to disconnect and change some things and it's up and running again.

Yep, I'm a dinosaur for not using one. For me, it serves as a floor -- if I'm getting the information, with my Internet connection registered to a Chinese friend, I feel there is no excuse for my students not being able to dig up the same information with a bit of creative searching.

[Mehrunes]

Your reply is simply straying into conspiracy theory territory, either that or gross ignorance. I can't access porn sites in South Korea, yet I know about them. Amazing, isn't it? How can I know about them even though it's blocked here? It's impossible that I could know of them because they're blocked.

And yours is straying into a non-argument and beyond. It in no way addresses the fact that Chinese government is actively trying to stifle whatever information they don't like. Yay, you know about porn sites. The mere general fact that it's a thing that exists somewhere. But since they are blocked in your country, you have to go out of your way to actually know what's in them. Now apply that to news, where that difference is even more important. Dat access to information.

@Jinro Unpossible! The Great Firewall is very effective. It keeps Chinese universities from hiring foreigners to teach things like US Constitutional Law, to Chinese students. There are also no foreign universities with programs in China and no exchange programs. Chinese high schools never use programs like Cambridge International Examinations or AP. Relatives returning home from overseas for things like Spring Festival never talk or share pictures. There are no Chinese working for foreign companies in China, and they certainly never go abroad to work. Chinese students never come back to work in China after studying abroad. There are no Chinese tourists, and foreigners in China never sit around and talk with Chinese.

Cisco did a hell of a job, eh?

You did even better job constructing this monumental straw-man. To the point the latter half of your brilliant non-arguments are examples of Chinese people leaving China, which is what Jinro said in the first place. With my reply being about the Chinese that don't do so for one reason or another. But hey, who'd care about reading things if you can champion how fantastic China is instead, amirite?

Edit: For a dated assessment that still seems to me on point: https://cs.stanford.edu/people/erobe...n-2/index.html

The short version, their conclusion, runs as follows:
The power of Chinese citizens cannot be underestimated, and the agency the average citizen has as a result of the internet, no matter how censored it may be, cannot be underestimated. In general rhetoric the image of the Chinese citizen is one of subservience to all-powerful and overwhelming government oppression. In truth, as always, the situation is a bit more complicated. With the ability of the internet to stir up outrage and uncover information, as well as connect disconnected parties, the Chinese citizen can still speak out and effect change against their government.

You do realize your very source supposed to counter me explicitly admits that Chinese government is trying to keep people in the dark on numerous issues with its censorship? Which is what Jinro denied happening and which is what I actually replied to (and I can't recall saying it's 100% effective)? So thanks. Your post was entertaining.