China: Tibetan elected student president in Canada, Chinese students enraged

[JohnBrown1917]

HOW is Tibet NOT China?
Because it was autonomous 300 years ago?

How about we give all of the US soil back to the natives?
Oh no, because being a hypocrite is easier.

And how does that give them the right to opress Tibet?

The way China works, it's better off being ran by the communist party than a capitalist party. Capitalism is modern slavery.

Also, you might want to read more into Chinese history except the last 70 years.
Why do you think China became so closed? Why is religion pretty much non existstent in China?
The opium wars is a good starting point to understand why China doesn't trust the west.

China is capitalist in anything but name.

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China has a lot of racism. When civil war breaks out in the US, they are never ever going to side with the left. And neither will the Russians. Its going to be the alt right + China + Russia vs the left wing in the US. That's about 1.6 billion on the right vs 200 million on the left. Its going to be a rout, honestly. The left will be absolutely destroyed.

The hell you even on about?

[shadowmouse]

All that matters still is they choose to stay, all of the U.S states/Territories do. Unlike Tibet/Hong kong

That's not really how facts work. You've asserted that before, I've pointed out that the UN and the US government itself do not agree with you. I've linked you to sources seeking Hawaiian sovereignty. You? You haven't produced one fact, you just keep repeating your unsupported opinions on Hawaii as well as Tibet and Hong Kong.

OK, hells yeah! Free Quebec! Free the Conch Republic! Oh, and, erm ... I guess you'll want to restore the Confederacy too, right? Because if a state or territory wanted to leave, of course it would be allowed, and if someone can get their discontent into the news all talk of media bias goes right out the window and it proves that they speak for a majority.

[Eldar45]

Red China, seriously? What the hell is up with the recycled Cold War language? Did you guys, probably not having been born yet, fail to get the memo that the Cold War is over? So is the 20th Century by the way.

I could secretly be Xi Jinping drunk posting for giggles, but the point I've raised would still be valid. How about you actually engage your brain and defend a position. To paraphrase Hubcap -- do you care that the US is occupying another country?

What the US did to Hawaii was bad. They also in general don't want to be separated from the US anymore. What China did to Tibet was also very bad and much more recent, and they want freedom.

And Red China is still a valid term. Red referring to a Communist state is accurate, as China is still, if only officially and not in actuality, a Communist state.

[shadowmouse]

What China did to Tibet was also very bad and much more recent, and they want freedom.

Much more recent is inaccurate, Hawaii became a state in 1959 and that's the same year China freed the serfs in Tibet. Both things have longer tails, but the actual events are the same year.

"Red" as a designation for Communist, is very much a Cold War remnant. I suppose that to a younger person (no slight intended, just a reference to time frames) the baggage associated with that gets lost since we've taken to talking about the US as Red and Blue states.

Tibetan Buddhism and Free Tibet remind me of the story about sausages ... that one is better not knowing what goes into them. I see people saying that "they" (presumably the people of Tibet) want to be "free". Well, prior to 1959 most Tibetans literally weren't free and that was something that Western observers documented. Tibet was a theocracy, where serfs were given no rights and punished with outright torture -- again, something that Western observers documented. I wasn't there, I don't know how the figure was derived or how accurate it is, but I have seen reference to the Dalai Lama fleeing with 60 tons of gold and jewels. He, and the wealthy elite who fled with him, lived a life that had little to do (except for benefiting from serfdom) with life as experienced by most Tibetans. Today, he and Free Tibet are a polished act -- polished by the CIA in the same era as the Bay of Pigs -- who keep themselves in the spotlight and keep the money rolling in. In China, there are still a few as old as the Dalai Lama (given that serfs died very young, there aren't many), and while I'm sure what they say in Chinese media will be dismissed here as propaganda they, their children, and their grandchildren see their situation today as much better than it was under the theocracy. When the woman in the original article speaks about Free Tibet, recall that she probably would not have been able to be who she is today if Tibet had remained as it was.

You find it plausible that Hawaii would reject sovereignty. I find it plausible that with serfdom being so recent in Tibet that there are still living survivors, perhaps the people descended from that 90% or so wouldn't want those days to return.

[AeneasBK]

I can't imagine ever caring who my student union president is. Like, someone could literally bring actual Hitler back from the dead and make him student union president at my university. I still wouldn't care.

Ah, come on now; not even an ironic selfie at some point?

[Raptor With a Saber]

That's not really how facts work. You've asserted that before, I've pointed out that the UN and the US government itself do not agree with you. I've linked you to sources seeking Hawaiian sovereignty. You? You haven't produced one fact, you just keep repeating your unsupported opinions on Hawaii as well as Tibet and Hong Kong.

OK, hells yeah! Free Quebec! Free the Conch Republic! Oh, and, erm ... I guess you'll want to restore the Confederacy too, right? Because if a state or territory wanted to leave, of course it would be allowed, and if someone can get their discontent into the news all talk of media bias goes right out the window and it proves that they speak for a majority.

Tibet/Hk dont want to be part of china and have been crushed by them for even wanting a voice. U.S doesnt do that so again its not at all the same one keeps them with threats of death one keeps them treating them well. So again circling around to my original post not the same at all.

[shadowmouse]

Tibet/Hk dont want to be part of china

Nice talking point ya got there, now prove it. Stop running in circles spouting what you think is true and back your points up with facts. Good gods, what the hell do they teach in schools nowadays?

If I say Quebec as a province (this is, after all, a story from Canada) wants to be free, and I point to the acts of some people in Quebec who favor separatism, I would rightfully be called out by our Canadian posters, although perhaps some might favor it. There is a clear example of what some might want not really representing what the majority want.

Similarly, the Conch Republic and the movement for Hawaiian sovereignty both exist, but you gloss over that. The US has, as a matter of public law, acknowledged that it basically stole Hawaii, and the Conch Republic actually did declare independence:

When the City Council's complaints went unanswered by the U.S. federal government and attempts to get an injunction against the roadblock failed in court, as a form of protest Mayor Dennis Wardlow and the Council declared Key West's independence on April 23, 1982. In the eyes of the Council, since the U.S. federal government had set up the equivalent of a border station as if they were a foreign nation, they might as well become one. As many of the local citizens were referred to as Conchs, the nation took the name of the Conch Republic.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic

We don't kill people over wanting to secede? Let me think about this, you wrote that with a straight face, didn't you?

No, I suppose we don't have to, because we killed so damned many the last time that was tried.

Law and precedent make it quite clear that we will use military force -- lethally if we wish -- to suppress any serious act of secession. It has been observed that that is a definite obstacle to any Hawaiian sovereignty movement given the significant military presence there.

In a nice bit of irony, the theocracy of Tibet were slaveholders. Freeing slaves was a core issue in the American Civil War. China asserts historical claims to Tibet, little different from the North's claim to the South, and has freed a whole bunch of slaves. Somehow that gets painted as evil if China does it.

[vilememory]

Well only one thing to do for this insult, China must annex all of Canada and impose Chinese rule over it.

[Raptor With a Saber]

Nice talking point ya got there, now prove it. Stop running in circles spouting what you think is true and back your points up with facts. Good gods, what the hell do they teach in schools nowadays?

If I say Quebec as a province (this is, after all, a story from Canada) wants to be free, and I point to the acts of some people in Quebec who favor separatism, I would rightfully be called out by our Canadian posters, although perhaps some might favor it. There is a clear example of what some might want not really representing what the majority want.

Similarly, the Conch Republic and the movement for Hawaiian sovereignty both exist, but you gloss over that. The US has, as a matter of public law, acknowledged that it basically stole Hawaii, and the Conch Republic actually did declare independence:

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conch_Republic

We don't kill people over wanting to secede? Let me think about this, you wrote that with a straight face, didn't you?

No, I suppose we don't have to, because we killed so damned many the last time that was tried.

Law and precedent make it quite clear that we will use military force -- lethally if we wish -- to suppress any serious act of secession. It has been observed that that is a definite obstacle to any Hawaiian sovereignty movement given the significant military presence there.

In a nice bit of irony, the theocracy of Tibet were slaveholders. Freeing slaves was a core issue in the American Civil War. China asserts historical claims to Tibet, little different from the North's claim to the South, and has freed a whole bunch of slaves. Somehow that gets painted as evil if China does it.

So you want people as slaves and no groups to people to have choices and everything to rules with an iron fist? if no then as i said they arent the same. Just stop dude, everytime you reply with some bullshit thing to try and justify a government keeping people in check by force in modern times will come back with the same reply from me. The choice of the people and them able to live without fear of the ruling gov raining hellfire down on them for just wanting a voice is all that matters.

You can keep trying to derail it all you want but the matter as i originally said and will keep saying is its not the same because one rules through fear one through treating well.

[Zaktar]

Chinese snowflakes?

[Freighter]

You can keep trying to derail it all you want but the matter as i originally said and will keep saying is its not the same because one rules through fear one through treating well.

Do you think the people in China live in fear?

[Raptor With a Saber]

Do you think the people in China live in fear?

nope, just the ones in tibet/hk

[JohnBrown1917]

Do you think the people in China live in fear?

Those opposing the goverment(i.e the marxist youth) do.

[DesmondCreighton]

Honestly, who cares if China is occupying another country - what in the duck are we going to do about it? Take this into perspective: the amount of women eligible to be drafted into military service in China is bigger than the ENTIRE US population, man, women, children, sick and old. Ever heard of the ducking UNDERGROUND GREAT WALL? Yep, China's been building it for decades, a tunnel system estimated to be longer than the distance between the East and West coasts of the United States - dedicated entirely to military purposes. Don't duck with China motherduckers, the 1940s will never happen again. I'm not some basement dweller who's never left my city either, traveling China I saw myself - they had propaganda everywhere, workers marching in formation, and the most impressive infrastructure you can imagine. Bomb shelters were in every city, and their Russian S-400 missiles are capable of shooting down just about everything we have in the air - not to forget their nuclear capable hyper sonic missile delivery systems, high tech gliders capable of advanced maneuvering to penetrate any airspace. They have missiles specifically designed to destroy satellites, enough to cause a catastrophic chain reaction that would practically send us back to the 1950s. I could go on, really. Point is, if you aren't at least wary of China - you should be. They're a threat to be reckoned with, and they have not just the world in their sights - but the stars too. Liberating ducking Tibet is the least of our concerns.

[shadowmouse]

The choice of the people and them able to live without fear of the ruling gov raining hellfire down on them for just wanting a voice is all that matters.

WTF are you even on about? Raining hellfire? Just wanting a voice? You *really* need to produce some facts and sources.

Do I want people as slaves? No, but apparently you do because that was 90% of Tibet under the theocracy. Tibet has been one of China's autonomous regions since the 1960s -- depending on whether one views the first general election or the first session of the first People's Congress, and those former serfs now get a voice that was denied to them under the Dalai Lama. That's having a voice, it may not be set up exactly the way you want it to be set up, but it is a voice and one that they never had before.

Do you think the people in China live in fear?

Sadly, he does. It plays to his fantasy, which is unfortunately the same one that had people expecting Iraq and Afghanistan to greet American troops as they were greeted by Italians during WWII and the Liberation of Rome. It is a fantasy where things like Ferguson and Kent State could never happen, but protesters in HK ... I don't know what the hell he thinks is going on, apparently they're in fear that China is going to napalm HK?

[Stelio Kontos]

WTF are you even on about? Raining hellfire? Just wanting a voice? You *really* need to produce some facts and sources.

Do I want people as slaves? No, but apparently you do because that was 90% of Tibet under the theocracy. Tibet has been one of China's autonomous regions since the 1960s -- depending on whether one views the first general election or the first session of the first People's Congress, and those former serfs now get a voice that was denied to them under the Dalai Lama. That's having a voice, it may not be set up exactly the way you want it to be set up, but it is a voice and one that they never had before.

Honestly, it is a complicated issue, but while he's biased, you're sort of white-washing as well. The Chinese murdered a lot of monks and burned countless monasteries when they invaded Tibet. And no, not just lamas who held people in serfdom, they murdered plenty of acolytes and harmless monks as well.

Like I said, as someone from a small country, the lesson is clear, big, powerful nations all act like assholes. Where someone's bias shows is which asshole behavior they defend.

[Raptor With a Saber]

WTF are you even on about? Raining hellfire? Just wanting a voice? You *really* need to produce some facts and sources.

Do I want people as slaves? No, but apparently you do because that was 90% of Tibet under the theocracy. Tibet has been one of China's autonomous regions since the 1960s -- depending on whether one views the first general election or the first session of the first People's Congress, and those former serfs now get a voice that was denied to them under the Dalai Lama. That's having a voice, it may not be set up exactly the way you want it to be set up, but it is a voice and one that they never had before.



Sadly, he does. It plays to his fantasy, which is unfortunately the same one that had people expecting Iraq and Afghanistan to greet American troops as they were greeted by Italians during WWII and the Liberation of Rome. It is a fantasy where things like Ferguson and Kent State could never happen, but protesters in HK ... I don't know what the hell he thinks is going on, apparently they're in fear that China is going to napalm HK?

Everytime Tib/Hk has wanted anything normally a voice or to be there own they get beat into submission with fear. What do you think would happen if a war actually happened for their freedom? [rhetorical]

Answer for me all you want also idc, you just keep going on for no reason. You started all of this because i said they werent the same. They arent, youre wrong just face it. Your replies are senseless and off the topic this was originally about between us which you dont stick too. They arent the same, china keeps tib in their grasp through fear. All they do to threat this and that and you know. Just stop it already youre messing with my notifications not adding anything to what you first replied too. Ive said what i needed, you havent. Youve also been nothing but aggressive and unfriendly this entire discussion. Have fun doing w/e you do.

You keep trying to put words in my mouth also and skirt around the original thing. Im done, youre not someone constructive or worth anymore time. You bring up things that are vastly different. Just stop and learn more about what you defend.

Last edit: When you do undoubtedly reply to this, you will either be more civil or finally touch on the original point but its pointless now. Also probably have more veiled insults in it also. Course there is the chance now that i pointed out how you 'discuss' things you will change it up. Either way you proved youre not worth talking with.

[Mrbleedinggums]

China and Tibet is as synonymous with Republicans in America with Socialis... err sorry I meant Nazi Communism

[Prokne]

The way China works, it's better off being ran by the communist party than a capitalist party. Capitalism is modern slavery.

China is more like a capitalistic totalitarian country that calls itself communist. The only thing not 100% capitalist about China is that the party can control the economy way more than most other countries. It's kind of the worst of both systems - political slavery because they have no real political rights and economic dependence on what the richer party members want.

And these kids that come from China to study at foreign universities are very likely to come from rich, connected families because those are the people who can afford that kind of education. IMO if they can't abide by the customs of the countries they are studying in (like threatening other students because they are some underclass in China), they should be expelled and sent back to China. The university can admit more domestic students to make up for the loss of tuition. Most of these students move back to China after they graduate anyway, so it is not like Canada is losing some kind of innovative talent.

[RussianGoblin]

There's so much cluelessness about China here;
Tibet and Xinjiang are both parts of China;
Chinese are very nationalistic and "sensitive" about national integrity;

Hong Kongers are mostly pro-China, there are some brainwashed "localists" who are supported by UK/USA bag-men, but this is a very small group;

Taiwan is not better than China, majority of the Taiwanese i know (and who often travel to China) think that Taiwan is stagnant and admire the development/progress in China, on the other hand some Taiwanese dumbasses who constantly talk shit about China - most of them have never been in China and blindly worship the US.

China is 200% correct in their hard-handed approach to troubled regions and separatist movements funded and supported by the US - for the sake for stirring up trouble. US is so "concerned" about Human rights in countries that are not under US boot. Why isnt the US "conderned" anymore about human rights in "liberated" countries like Libya, Iraq, Haiti, Ukriane, some c in South America or Yemen? US ally - KSA, can murder journalists who criticize the regime in their embassies and US will help them sweep it under the rug LOL. Talk about hypocrisy.

PS. im not Chinese myself but i lived in China for many years, including HK/Taiwan.