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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by breadisfunny View Post
    the executive branch is not the only branch of government though.
    Which is entirely the point I was making. Electing a President gets you basically nothing. It gets you moderate regulatory control and a bully pulpit that even Trump, the most prolific bully of our time, can't really do much with, without the backing of Congress.

    In our system, if people want to make change - the change on the scale Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump envisions - they have to win a majority in the house and super-majority in the Senate first. Extremely few progressives, just like the Trumphadis and their fucking wall, want to even look that problem in the eye, much less come up with a plan to actually accomplish that task. They both say the same nonsense that whats-his-face up there said... "It's a start", "Big dreams start small", or some facile crap like that *waves hand*. Really, it's like looking into the sun for them. It's the thing around which all their hopes orbit, but blinds them if they stare at it, because they truly cannot effect the sun, but the sun can sure as hell effect them.

    Which gets me to my point: electing Bernie Sanders to bring about great change is a big fat zero. He will have no more success in cutting defense programs to fund medicare for all than Donald Trump had in cutting Obamacare to pay for the wall.

    Is this a reason to say "well it doesn't matter who you elect as President". Hell no. Donald Trump's illegitimate reign of terror has shown how much elections matter and the great harm a malicious president can do if they seek to damage that has been built. I don't think Sanders, or any of the Democratic candidates have that on their agenda, unlike Individual-1. Presidents have great power still, when it comes to "negative influence", let's call it. The power to destroy.

    But the power to create and change? That comes from Congress. Presidential Budget Requests don't matter anymore. Congress hasn't taken one seriously since 2010, and both houses have changed hands, as has the Presidency, since them. And the end of earmarks (2011) give them less incentive than ever to care what the President of the day wants. Sanderistas, like the Trumphadis, can live in fantasyland with their fucking dreams but if you want to make actual change, learn how the sausage is made behind closed doors, and it's not a dream. It's ugly as sin. It's the F-35 getting divided up between 48 states and Bernie Sanders being a big fan of it because it brings billions in federal dollars to Vermont. It's Mitch McConnell building monuments to himself in Kentucky. It's Elizabeth Warren going easy on Raytheon, one of Massachusetts' largest employers. It's Cory Booker's close relationship with both New Jersey-centric Pharma and Silicon Valley.

    In 2016 I tried to get a serious answer out of the Sanderistas how their political revolution was functionally going to work besides Sanders making a lot of forgettable speeches, PACs doing what they normally do, and the usual crowds and marches that never lead to anything going on. I got a big fat nothing then. And I predict that if I press the issue, I'll get a big fat nothing now. But maybe Today's Sanders fans are the embryonic stage of what Trumphadijs have become. Trump is not getting his wall, period. It is over, and the racists lost. But the racists are now living this fantasy whereby the Trump is near "finishing the wall" or some shit. Is that what Sanders fans going to do when nothing happens on their Agenda? "Finish Universal Healthcare!" "Finish Free College For All!", when Congress decides to boost healthcare spending by 3% and Federal Student financial aid by 4%?

    I'm interested in serious people. Sanderistas in 2016 were not serious people. They were passionate. They were emotive. They were sloppy. And they were intentionally ignorant. They didn't want to challenge Saint Sanders to legitimately deliver anymore than Trumphadis want to challenge their orange lord.

    So go Sanders. If you win the Democratic Primary, I will vote for you, and then chuckle when you sign $800 billion defense bills for 4 years straight. A President who isn't good at making Sausage is a weak President. Obama was trash at making Sausage. Trump is even worse. Sanders won't be any better. Will any of the Democrats? We'll see. Every Presidential candidate ever reckons themselves a great man or woman who will make great speeches. But the Presidents who mattered were excellent sausage makers. And they worked with well less than 60 votes in the Senate.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    It is my personal opinion that what the US needs now is, to be frank, a boring President. There needs to be a period where nothing much is happening except for cleaning up after the mess this current administration is making of fucking EVERYTHING, so the thought of someone with "BIG IDEAS!" taking the reins right now doesn't sit right with me. The US needs someone with dignity and respect who can be the global representative of the country abroad, reassure allies that all is well--and not try throwing radical new policies into the mix when America is trying to heal itself. I realize this is most likely not a popular opinion, but it's one I don't think I'd be easily swayed from given what we've seen the past couple of years.
    I think it's going to be hard to heal without taking a serious step toward fixing the policy failures that led to Trump in the first place. It's going to take a long time to reverse the damage, no matter who wins the presidency, but I think that 2016 was an overall rejection of "business as usual" and the political class has to prove that they understand that this time around. I think it's going to be hard for a "boring" president to convince the electorate that they get it.
    "As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
    -H.L. Mencken, 1920

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Honestly I expected them to lose another seat or two, so was pleasantly surprised when the net loss was only 1. But you never wanted Dems to have a supermajority in the Senate, Skroe, be honest. Or at least not before the 2016 elections.

    With respect to the rest of your post, I hope you did not think that I was singling you out in mine. I was just commenting on what I have been reading in this thread in general--not specific to any one person. In fact, among most of those in this thread you are usually one of the least of the offenders--except when it comes to the bad-faith Trump posters and in which case fuck them.

    As far as how big a difference the President makes, I can semi-agree with you. I'm sure people will remember under Obama how many times his ideas/promises were stonewalled in Congress--for good or ill. I DO think, however, that a strong, rational President can still win opposing party members over to his side depending on the issue and measures discussed. I do agree that it is and will be rare, however.

    It is my personal opinion that what the US needs now is, to be frank, a boring President. There needs to be a period where nothing much is happening except for cleaning up after the mess this current administration is making of fucking EVERYTHING, so the thought of someone with "BIG IDEAS!" taking the reins right now doesn't sit right with me. The US needs someone with dignity and respect who can be the global representative of the country abroad, reassure allies that all is well--and not try throwing radical new policies into the mix when America is trying to heal itself. I realize this is most likely not a popular opinion, but it's one I don't think I'd be easily swayed from given what we've seen the past couple of years.

    I look forward to reading debates between progressive and conservatives again instead of the daily dose of "Can you believe he did this shit?" versus "Hyuck, hyuck, that's our MAGA!" that's been dominating, but I fear that orange shithead has broken things so badly that it's going to be a long, long time, if ever, before most people can discuss things rationally instead of insta-REEEE-ing...however justified.
    Oh I didn't think you were singling me out.

    I absolutely wanted the Democrats to hold every seat in the election in 2016 and 2018. To put it bluntly, I'm not some fucking political child who wants their policy change and wants it now. Far too many politically involved people act like if we don't get universal healthcare tomorrow, or if we don't get government cut down to where it was in 1885 by next year, we're all going to die, or conversely, we're to become the USSR. Life is not that dramatic and our system is designed to make assailing the status quo extraordinarily hard.

    Or to put it another way, this ridiculous freak outs that people on the right over *gasp* a Democratic majority, or a Democratic President doing liberal (*gasp* Socialist!) things is the pinniacle of the absurd. I intend to live a very long, and very happy life. Is that going to be under what... another 50 straight years of Conservative Presidents and Conservative-dominated Congresses. Hell no! I'd have to really believe that what I want out of government is flimsy and vulnerable and won't EVER happen, if I were to freak out because sometimes those dastardly Democrats win one. I believe my policy agenda will succeed, little by little, over the course of my long life. There is no "fierce urgency of now".

    I was annoyed that Democrats lost Florida in 2018 in particular. Getting newly minted Senator Rick Scott out of office before he dies or retires is going to be extraordinarily hard. He is at the head of one of the best political organizations in the country, and the single best in the Republican Party. Thanks to Bill Nelson not taking his race seriously until the last five minutes, that seat is off the map probably until the deep 2030s.

    But you're right it could have been worse.

    My hope for 2020 is that Democrats win the Presidency, hold their majority in the House, and win the majority in the Senate (I put right now 50/50 odds on that). Every Republican who kneeled before Donald Trump loses their career, without exception. None get forgiven. Why? You're going to see it again next week when the Motion of Disapproval for the National Emergency is put forward, and a whopping two Republicans step forward to vote for it and it fails, despite almost all of them thinking it's bullshit in private. They've betrayed their oath so many times, we've lost count.

    So exile it is for them. And exile it is for conservatism, while we purge our side of things from the hucksters, grifters, racists, frauds and crazies who have set up shop here. Democrats, as I see it, deserve the majority, everywhere, because in the Age of Trump, they have been the only party defending democracy while the Republican Party has become a nesting ground for authoritarianism, rather than lose on issues or lose election fairly.

    Democrats have defended the founders creation. They've been the real "conservatives" in the literal sense. Republicans have utterly betrayed it.

    I agree with the entirety of the rest of your post, to be clear. I would add, I would very much like the next Democratic President to promise in the general election to sign legislation handing power that's been put in their hands since the 1930s back over to Congress. The ability of a President to declare a national emergency, for example, particularly without a fixed duration of time (say 30 days) before it is automatically ended is the kind of nonsense that a functioning democratic system would be above. A thing of that magnitude - as the words "National Emergency" have been used the world over as a highway to authoritarianism - deserves a vote of APPROVAL (not this disapproval garbage) in Congress.

    So yes. Let's have a boring Presidents. Moreover let's have a President who promises to weaken the office in an enduring fashion and bring it more in line with what the pre-"Imperial Presidency" standard was.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    I think it's going to be hard to heal without taking a serious step toward fixing the policy failures that led to Trump in the first place. It's going to take a long time to reverse the damage, no matter who wins the presidency, but I think that 2016 was an overall rejection of "business as usual" and the political class has to prove that they understand that this time around. I think it's going to be hard for a "boring" president to convince the electorate that they get it.
    The big mistake Americans make is looking at the President and Congress to solve their problems. Nationalizing every issue.

    They should be looking at their State Legislatures and Governors mansions. Decisions made the effect their day to day lives far more regularly than national level policy. A quick and obvious example: lots of states had gay marriage years before the Supreme Court ended the bans.

    Most economic issues that effect every day Americans are handled by State governments, not Federal. Federal is icing on the cake. Regulations of course matter.. Remember: most people in this country work for small business, not big business. And small business typically isn't even just state level... it's local.

    If Americans truly wanted to get into the messy act of being politically active and meaningfully improving their immediate lives, they'd become familiar with their state-level legislators as much as they are how much of a two faced cunt Lindsey Grahmn, one of one hundred Senators of somebody elses state, is. But most people aren't.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I see you're back to taking the learning about things after you post. Those are perhaps the three worst choices for the Dems in 2020. I guess Trump told you to post those?

    Its clearly Russia who made him post it!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Technically, from the looks of things, he lost the election through illegal outside influence. But we'll wait for the final report to come out.
    '
    You mean the same shit the US does to other countries?


    Usually you post with some kind of knowledge, but this seems to be an exception. Keep in mind the democratic nominee has won the popular vote in every presidential general election since 1988, save one. So I wouldn't try dying on that particular hill.
    Does not change the still pick shitty candidates, that the other party is even worse.. well.. that is just how the US works.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Because the far left and far right have won so many presidential elections?
    Bernie is centre-left, not a single elected US politican is anything close to far left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Trump did it so it's good. I put my faith in a strong political figure because I lack self-esteem and feel threatened by a changing world. Whoever stands against him is bad because I do not understand their arguments and I have a simple tribalistic mindset created through the consumption of right-wing media.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    You mean the same shit the US does to other countries?
    Yes, it’s bad when US does it and it’s bad when done to US. Otherwise you are a hypocrite...

    Does not change the still pick shitty candidates, that the other party is even worse.. well.. that is just how the US works
    This is feelz over reelz. The only way to actually counter what he said, is that Democrats lost the election twice, despite the popular vote wins. This is more of a demonstration why attacking this logic as just “Trump supporters” is inadequate. It’s the American liberal litmus test, that will have your preferred candidate lose every single time. Think about it... a foreign nation can attack US elections, while you celebrate it, because you don’t like it when US does it. How do you like Trump supporting SA by funneling arms to them to fight in Libya, that ended up killing a school full of children? That foreign money going to Trump is totally cool, because we did the same in funding Iraq to fight Iran? The money oil companies spend to sustain their power over US government is perfectly fine, because they do it to other countries too? See... “Trump supporter” is simply an inadequate term... we need one for democrats being horrible, which inadvertently normalizes Trump’s and US government action.

    Seriously... can you imagine your self just 3 years ago, saying that foreign nations interference in countries, is totally cool... because everyone does it? I don’t think that’s possible... I think if you thought about it, without the clouded judgment, you wouldn’t support any foreign nation interference in elections.

    Bernie is centre-left, not a single elected US politican is anything close to far left.
    You bet... because you are center left? How about this... instead of asserting what has become a useless scale, since no one wants to treat it objectively. Let’s compare the issues Bernie pushes, to the DNC stated platform. Without applying subjective labels, let’s compare these *spit* astablishment democrat’s platform, with this independent that caucused with democrats for 30 years. Let’s see how far apart they are, to justify your ire. When Bernie tells you to vote for a democrat that beats him next election, will you do it?
    Entropy won't yield to you.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yes, it’s bad when US does it and it’s bad when done to US. Otherwise you are a hypocrite...
    You should tell that to the people ranting about russia 24/7 while supporting candidates that pull this shit.


    This is feelz over reelz. The only way to actually counter what he said, is that Democrats lost the election twice, despite the popular vote wins. This is more of a demonstration why attacking this logic as just “Trump supporters” is inadequate.
    No idea what you're even on about, i'm not talking about the election results.

    a foreign nation can attack US elections, while you celebrate it, because you don’t like it when US does it.
    Nice strawman?

    How do you like Trump supporting SA by funneling arms to them to fight in Libya, that ended up killing a school full of children? That foreign money going to Trump is totally cool, because we did the same in funding Iraq to fight Iran? The money oil companies spend to sustain their power over US government is perfectly fine, because they do it to other countries too? See... “Trump supporter” is simply an inadequate term... we need one for democrats being horrible, which inadvertently normalizes Trump’s and US government action.
    This is not excluse to Trump, remind me who started the war in Libya again?

    [/quote]

    Seriously... can you imagine your self just 3 years ago, saying that foreign nations interference in countries, is totally cool... because everyone does it? I don’t think that’s possible... I think if you thought about it, without the clouded judgment, you wouldn’t support any foreign nation interference in elections.
    ????

    You bet... because you are center left? How about this... instead of asserting what has become a useless scale, since no one wants to treat it objectively. Let’s compare the issues Bernie pushes, to the DNC stated platform. Without applying subjective labels, let’s compare these *spit* astablishment democrat’s platform, with this independent that caucused with democrats for 30 years. Let’s see how far apart they are, to justify your ire. When Bernie tells you to vote for a democrat that beats him next election, will you do it?
    Still no idea wtf you're on about.
    Last edited by Gilrak; 2019-02-23 at 01:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Trump did it so it's good. I put my faith in a strong political figure because I lack self-esteem and feel threatened by a changing world. Whoever stands against him is bad because I do not understand their arguments and I have a simple tribalistic mindset created through the consumption of right-wing media.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    You should tell that to the people ranting about russia 24/7 while supporting candidates that pull this shit.
    When they post it, I will. In fact, I think most of them have me on ignore and I still do it. Right now it’s you... so... howdy?

    No idea what you're even on about, i'm not talking about the election results.
    That’s the point. He shows you the popular vote and you go off on a feelz tangent. That’s the fucking point of what I said. You understood it, you just have no logical response. My example, of hinging on 2 of those popular votes resulting in Trump and Bush, is the logical counter. Your going off on not even talking about elections in response to his assertion, is feelz over realz. It’s why I said the term “Trump supporter” is inapt. The ability to both reply to an argument, while explaining it, to start by saying you have no idea. Is not a unique trait of a “Trump supporter”.

    Nice strawman?
    No, that’s not what a strawman is. Try explaining what was wrong in that quote. Because strawman doesn’t work...

    This is not excluse to Trump, remind me who started the war in Libya again?
    Yes, it explicitly is. Can the people who started the war end it? Do they have the ability? Who actually does? Pointing at people who can no longer have an impact, is explicitly excusing those that actually can. By your irrational logic, we need to blame those who have lost their power to do anything. It’s not that different than chasing phantoms... the results are the same.

    ????
    Was ‘no, I cannot’ too difficult to type?

    Still no idea wtf you're on about.
    Of course not... how can a feelz over reelz reactionary, deal with the “wide” difference between astablishment democrats and the guy who caucused with them for 30 years. Actual policy is irrelevant...
    Entropy won't yield to you.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    Its clearly Russia who made him post it!
    Bernie is centre-left, not a single elected US politican is anything close to far left.
    It's a really sad situation when I have to agree with the guy that has "kill fascists" in the avatar. But yes, Russia, d'oh, if only somebody would actually pay me for losing time here.

    These forums are by far a worse place when Skroe and Cubby are not banned. They have nothing to say but personal attacks, 2 full pages of derailing because people choose to wonder on who am I and where do I come from and whose alt I might be, which I can't really defend myself from, as how would you prove you're not an alt properly?

    They trash everything to the left of these insanely bad centrists that call themselves Dems, which is a sham, without much reasoning other than "it's not gonna happen anyway.

    We start small and build it up. Pressure will rise, and things will continue to change. Status quo is NOT an option.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    You try and make me give up my wealth though and try to turn America into some socialist paradise? I could get a job in Singapore in about a week. We live in a global economy, and if backwards looking Americans want to cave in the American economy by turning this into some industrial workers paradise, rather than the leading hub of the modern global economy, we who have the skill set and the ability to take our business elsewhere, simply will.
    I have to back up to this point. This is the sort of scaremongering that the wealthy have been using every time the prospect of taking away a dime of their money comes up. I'm going to call it for the 100% bullshit it is.

    Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt at all that a few would go elsewhere if taxes increased to some degree. They do have the money to do that. But we have a lot of non-financial policies here that we gain from - namely, property rights and civil rights, among others. Just like all sorts of people holler that they'll move to Canada if so and so wins whatever election, very few do because it turns out that there's a lot more to what makes America a stellar place to live than the person who runs it or the percentage you pay in taxes. Singapore, for example, dramatically limits your freedom of expression, the police are allowed to surveil you at any time without cause, simple crimes are punished with caning, just to name a few. "I'll leave if I can't get my way" is all meaningless tough talk.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    As for the 2nd one, if you sabotage Bernie AGAIN, a lot of his supporters will vote out of fucking spite. I suggest you don't try the same crap as in 2016, cause this time, people are ready, and it won't end up pretty.
    Clinton beat Sanders in the primary by MILLIONS of votes. Bernie sabotaged himself with a shit campaign, especially in the south. But sure, go vote for trump berniebro. By the way, did he ever find that shoe box with his taxes that he refused to release?
    Delenda Est...

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    I have to back up to this point. This is the sort of scaremongering that the wealthy have been using every time the prospect of taking away a dime of their money comes up. I'm going to call it for the 100% bullshit it is.

    Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt at all that a few would go elsewhere if taxes increased to some degree. They do have the money to do that. But we have a lot of non-financial policies here that we gain from - namely, property rights and civil rights, among others. Just like all sorts of people holler that they'll move to Canada if so and so wins whatever election, very few do because it turns out that there's a lot more to what makes America a stellar place to live than the person who runs it or the percentage you pay in taxes. Singapore, for example, dramatically limits your freedom of expression, the police are allowed to surveil you at any time without cause, simple crimes are punished with caning, just to name a few. "I'll leave if I can't get my way" is all meaningless tough talk.
    It's not. You'd be foolish to dismiss it as such. The appeal of Singapore? A low tax rate. And the things you find significant about America like Freedom of expression, not myself but many people scarcely care, if they get paid well.

    Dismissing it is hiding from it. But it is a thing. Unlike the head of Blizzard's Battle.Net development, who, if you don't mind me pulling rank, went to goddamn Fresno State and from folks I know at Blizzard, is something of an imbecile who got his job through kissing ass, us folks with a little bit thicker resume and more connections have opportunities. And we do take them. I am here right now because of my parents. Because they are getting older. Because my family is very important to me. But that's it. I have no kids and no desire to have kids. I have no interest in starting a family of my own. I work for one company and and and starting up another. White picket fences and going to cooking class with one spouse is for other people, like my brother.

    Most of the people I went to undergrad and grad school with do not work in the United States any more. They left because they had fewer connections here, the pay is better elsewhere and the tax rate lower. Around 18 months ago my company, previously owned by Alphabet (Google), was sold to new Japanese ownership. There was significant concern at the time that our new Japanese overlords would move their entire purchase to Japan. That thankfully didn't happen, and we've had the same autonoy we've always had. But here's the thing, if they had moved us, most of my co-workers would have left. I wouldn't have, because again, family, and I put out feelers in the Boston and New York City area, and got good feedback. But they again, had generally fewer ties, and would have generally packed a bag if asked, so long as the pay was better.

    This is the way things are going for people with specialized skillsets. It's as simple that. For my company I'm starting up right now, we're developing software based on what me and my lead partner in it grad school meshing decision making engines with with distributed systems. Most of the people we're recruiting to work on it are not Americans. Or Canadians, and certainly not Europeans. They live in Asia. If this actually takes off, there is a better chance I'll move there than they'll move here. After all, more money in Hong Kong than Boston. Almost as much as New York.

    This is how things work now and it is not scaremongering and bullshit. The world has changed. The American Century is over and isn't coming back anytime soon. Folks who think that this is the only game in town have to get with the program. It is not the 1970s, 1980s or 1990s anymore. This is what comes next. America has less of a monopoly of talent and money than ever, and it has to work to keep it. And no that doesn't just, or even necessarily mean low taxes. It means a business friendly environment (specifically start ups and small business). It means creating conditions for teenagers and twenty somethings to be educated and then skilled in the skillsets they need for the modern global economy. It means investment in infrastructure to support innovators and young businesses. Some states do this stuff well. Some states do it miserably. But America isn't remotely the best at doing it.

    if anything, in my estimation, it is basically capitalizing on it's pre-existing condition of being the center of global economy, with a vice-like grip (tighter now than ever before) on global finance to counteract the fact that it has gone from first in class to, at best average, of the things that make countries economy competitive in the modern global economy.

    This is not to say "Elect Bernie and we're outtie" or anything so inane. It's to say don't take for granted something America has by accident of history, but is in no way entitled to, and to put simply, has less of a monopoly on than ever before.

    Just remember. Today, in 2019, China is neck-in-neck with the US in the A.I. arms race, and 25 years ago the parents of the people making those breakthroughs in China were farmers living under straw roofs. America does not have the luxury of time and space to go on tangents anymore.

    So no. Not a threat. The facts of the changing world. The chances of me actually ever leaving are extremely low. I love this country and you know me to be highly principled. But if the Titanic sinks, so to speak, I'm not going down with the ship.
    Last edited by Skroe; 2019-02-23 at 03:07 PM.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Togashii View Post
    Clinton beat Sanders in the primary by MILLIONS of votes. Bernie sabotaged himself with a shit campaign, especially in the south. But sure, go vote for trump berniebro. By the way, did he ever find that shoe box with his taxes that he refused to release?
    Not voting at all is an option, you know. I wouldn't vote for memes. And there are still Warren and Tulsi left, one has mentioned the rich performing class warfare on the poor for decades, which is enough to get voted in my books, and another has a good foreign policy and would most likely stop the US from trying to play world police, which is yet again something worth voting for.

    Also, you just couldn't help it but call me a berniebro, eh? You simply had to. You should probably check my enthusiastic post in the Warren and Gabbard topics (the latter which I created), so yes, what a typical berniebro I am, unwilling to compromise, it's either bernie or bust /s

  13. #253
    The Unstoppable Force cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    Does not change the still pick shitty candidates, that the other party is even worse.. well.. that is just how the US works.
    Shitty candidates according to you. Not according to the majority of the U.S. voting population.


    Bernie is centre-left, not a single elected US politican is anything close to far left.
    Ok...whatever. Bernie is still a bad choice.
    The less you know, the more you believe.

    Science has promised us nothing and given us everything, faith has promised us everything and given us nothing.

  14. #254
    Some of Bernie's policies, looking great:

    Sanders' 2020 agenda, per aides:
    - Medicare 4 All
    - Green New Deal/climate
    - $15 min wage
    - Criminal justice reform
    - Free college
    - Break up biggest banks
    - Gender pay equity
    - Paid leave
    - ⬇ Drug prices
    - Expand Social Security
    - Save unions
    - DREAM Act

    Aides also mentioned:
    - Background checks & assault weapons ban
    - Affordable housing
    - New infrastructure
    - Opposing "military industrial complex”

    Criminal justice plank includes:
    - Legalize weed
    - Abolish private prisons
    - End cash bail
    - "Major" police dep't reform

  15. #255
    The Unstoppable Force breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    You should tell that to the people ranting about russia 24/7 while supporting candidates that pull this shit.



    No idea what you're even on about, i'm not talking about the election results.


    Nice strawman?


    This is not excluse to Trump, remind me who started the war in Libya again?



    well since your not voting in the u.s. elections no cares what you think about our candidates.
    r.i.p. alleria. 1997-2017. blizzard ruined alleria forever. blizz assassinated alleria's character and appearance.
    i will never forgive you for this blizzard.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Some of Bernie's policies, looking great:
    Let's see, what can be done with the help of a Democratic house but no Democratic super majority in the senate.

    Sanders' 2020 agenda, per aides:
    1- Medicare 4 All
    2- Green New Deal/climate
    2- $15 min wage
    3- Criminal justice reform
    4- Free college
    5- Break up biggest banks
    6- Gender pay equity
    7- Paid leave
    8- ⬇ Drug prices
    9- Expand Social Security
    10- Save unions
    11- DREAM Act

    Aides also mentioned:
    -12 Background checks & assault weapons ban
    13- Affordable housing
    14- New infrastructure
    15- Opposing "military industrial complex”

    Criminal justice plank includes:
    16- Legalize weed
    17- Abolish private prisons
    18- End cash bail
    19- "Major" police dep't reform
    1-No
    2-No
    3-No
    4-Maybe
    5-No
    6-Doubtfully
    7-Executive Order that does nothing?
    8-Maybe
    9-No
    10-Doubtfully
    11-Probably

    12-Maybe, however Bernie himself might torpedo that.
    13-Doubtfully
    14-Some would probably happen. Even if "old" infrastructure is more important.
    15-Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. He'd be as good at that as Obama was. Obama who wanted to cut military spending and then had to sign expanding it. Not under the perview of the POTUS. They ought to stop running on it.
    16-Yes
    17-Yes, however stateside GOP will shunt it to the SCOTUS
    18-Probably
    19-See 17

    The problem is that people seem to think that the POTUS is a dictator. When these days they don't even have much of a say about what the budget looks like. They get a budget and need to execute on it.
    To get shit done the POTUS is less important than the two other branches of US government.
    - Lars

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    SNIP
    I am a Sanders supporter for full disclosure. Do I expect him to get his stuff? No, I do not.

    What I do expect for him to do is to push for them and put pressure on the others to pass them and since these are issues that the public actually want, that works much better and pushes the envelope and encourages more like them to run for the lower offices much like his primary has since.

    And even if he doesn't get any of that done, he still pushes the needle in that direction. It isn't like he is pushing for unpopular stuff.

    And when he pushes for this stuff and the other politicians push back, that gets them on the record with their views which many of them seem to want to avoid. Like they will only push for stuff when they know it won't work but when they have the chance, they refuse. This would be them having the chance and being pushed to do it, this would be them either putting up or shutting up.

    And I would rather a politician fight for me and fail then to sell me out and succeed.

    Also, the other guy did a double 2 which makes your response harder to read since it didn't have the double 2 so lining them up gets a little off some.

    Now, do I want Sanders to run? Not really, while I do support him and his policies, I don't want his mind or body to go while he is in and go senile and be exploited like Bush Jr. I would much prefer he bow out and endorse a younger candidate with his policies and a history to back it up.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    And I would rather a politician fight for me and fail then to sell me out and succeed.

    Also, the other guy did a double 2 which makes your response harder to read since it didn't have the double 2 so lining them up gets a little off some.

    Now, do I want Sanders to run? Not really, while I do support him and his policies, I don't want his mind or body to go while he is in and go senile and be exploited like Bush Jr. I would much prefer he bow out and endorse a younger candidate with his policies and a history to back it up.
    This.

    You start small, and build. Without Bernie 2016, we would still have just corporate dems. He pushed ideas into mainstream. Imagine Warren saying that "the rich have performed class warfare on the poor for decades", which is TRUE, 10-15 years ago, she'd be lynched on the news. Now almost nobody even cared, even thought that was arguably the most important part of her message.

    Every person is entitled to vote for somebody that seems to be wanting to represent them the most. Everybody is entitled to push their own agenda. Just like the rich lobby for shit like tax cuts and lied about their industries for decades (tobacco, alcohol, pharma, oil etc.) just to extract more money, even if it was clearly immoral, so the 99% OWE THEMSELVES to push for an agenda that favors them first and candidates that at least promise to fight for them, not the rich, and not corporations.

    The poor need to exit that mindset of "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" and fight to take their fair share.

    Oh, and Bernie will have a VP. If something happens to Bernie, my hope is that somebody like Warren or Tulsi will continue on his path. He's old, yes, but his mind is clearly young. He started this, basically, I think he deserves this the most. Tulsi has the entire life in front of her, so she'll be fine. Warren is sadly kind of old too so she might lose her chance, which I think she also deserves.
    Last edited by CryotriX; 2019-02-23 at 10:32 PM.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Oh, and Bernie will have a VP. If something happens to Bernie, my hope is that somebody like Warren or Tulsi will continue on his path. He's old, yes, but his mind is clearly young. He started this, basically, I think he deserves this the most. Tulsi has the entire life in front of her, so she'll be fine. Warren is sadly kind of old too so she might lose her chance, which I think she also deserves.
    For me, if Bernie's mind goes, what are the odds that he will know it enough to step down or how hard will the administration try to cover it up? How much could he screw up before they finally admit to it or he admits it to himself? That is what worries me.

    When you are older and your mind starts to go, you don't realize it many times until you are way into it as you don't want to think of yourself like that and even then, you aren't in your right mind so your ability to notice it is getting compromised as well.

    I like Bernie, I really do, I supported him in 2016 and I would gladly vote for him in the general now. But I also fear him being exploited should that happen and do think they need to put age limits on public office.

    Could you imagine if you boarded a plane on a long distance flight to see an 80 year old pilot? How safe would you feel and just how many people could get killed over the years due to that pilot having health or mental complications on the trip? An official can end up causing far more devastation and even if he has others around him to help prevent that, that doesn't prevent them from trying to exploit it for their gain as well or try and cover it up to protect their legacy.

    THAT is what I fear with him.

    I personally believe they should have age limits on all public officials and judges.

  20. #260
    @CryotriX

    I think it's frankly cowardly for certain people to just scream "BAD FAITH POSTER" , put you on ignore, and then prance away.

    I don't always agree with you, but (as the OP) I say you are welcome here. I only have 1 poster on ignore, mainly because he bores me: Machismo.

    You try and make me give up my wealth though and try to turn America into some socialist paradise? I could get a job in Singapore in about a week. We live in a global economy, and if backwards looking Americans want to cave in the American economy by turning this into some industrial workers paradise, rather than the leading hub of the modern global economy, we who have the skill set and the ability to take our business elsewhere, simply will.
    Classic heartless AnCap doctrine, courtesy of Skroe.

    As for the emphasized part? Good riddance.
    Last edited by Realitytrembles; 2019-02-24 at 04:16 AM.

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