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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    If you had actually read his post instead of commenting on the length, you would have already seen his answer. Have an actual plan. If you want something hard enough, how will you change it?
    Well, remember recent news with guy caught by FBI with printed gun and list of congressmen?

    ...there is rich history on how obstacles to progress can be removed if peaceful solutions fail.

  2. #302
    Just a notice so we're all on the same page. @CryotriX is from Romania.

    He isn't an American and has no voting rights in our country. He is a foreigner advocating from afar for radical policy changes in other people's country.

    Americans advocating for Bernie? Fine of course. A dude from Romania being his chief cheerleader? Stinks to high heaven.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Just a notice so we're all on the same page. @CryotriX is from Romania.

    He isn't an American and has no voting rights in our country.
    Being from Romania doesn't mean I don't have voting rights in the US, even you should be able to tell something as simple as this.

    Maybe I will even vote there for the first time, if I actually have somebody that I like enough, eh? Like Bernie, Tulsi or Warren.

    Also, lmao at that "He isn't an American". One step from the Trumphadis here, I see.

    @ the kind moderators:

    For how long will you allow Skroe to throw mud and personal attacks and smears on other users, when he's unable to impose his ideas?

    Should it be allowed that we start attacking each other instead of discussing the subject of the topic? I've read the rules, I've worked as an admin and mod, and I know for a fact that what Skroe does is:

    - derailing
    - flamebaiting
    - the other word that i cannot mention because is against the rules

    So why not take action on him?
    Last edited by CryotriX; 2019-02-25 at 05:22 PM.

  4. #304
    I literally just posted 4000 word essay in detail, on this very topic, you didn’t read a word of you insufferable bad faith poster, rofl.

    Want to know why the mods give me some latitude ? Because as my extensive reply to my fellow anti-trump amigo shows, I’m sincere.

    But I will call a spade a spade. The one thing I’ve been a tireless advocate of is restoring this historically rich community back the better way it was a few years ago. Consistent with that it’s clear as day exactly what you are.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And no. I don’t believe for a second you are an American voter.

    Now assess my points. What’s the plan beyond symbolism? Symbolism got trumphadis zilch. It won’t serve sanderistas any better.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Now assess my points. What’s the plan beyond symbolism? Symbolism got trumphadis zilch. It won’t serve sanderistas any better.
    I already assessed them as worthless and dismissed them as what's essentially concern trolling.

    Symbolism is incredibly important. It signals that change is possible and energizes the forgotten masses.

    Now, let's assume I cannot vote in the US, just to entertain your conspiracy theory. It would mean NOTHING, as I am still able to post here. I don't care much if you or others don't like it. I do my best to play by the forum rules, even though it's DAMN HARD at times. The US is incredibly important for the whole world, not just its citizens, and what happens in the US always results in influencing the politics in the rest of the world, sadly. So I'd say that even if your conspiracy would be true, which it isn't, I would still be well within my rights to support candidates that are promising to do what I want, it's the sad reality of living in a world with so much US influence.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    So your argument for putting Bernie in place mirrors exactly the arguments that Trump supporters make for the wall. And impresses me in equal measure.

    I don't care about how much hope, or belief, or whatever you have. If you want to convince me that you have anything more than dreams of glory, present an actual plan for making change happen if you get your way and Bernie becomes president.
    The odds of President Sanders passing Medicare for All in his first term are zero. The odds that he lays the groundwork for passing it in the term after that are much higher than zero. So the first step in achieving our goals is getting either Sanders, or someone like him, elected as President.


    We could make progress if Trump is re-elected. But it will go much more smoothly if we have Sanders or someone like him in office.

  7. #307
    The Unstoppable Force cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    I already assessed them as worthless and dismissed them as what's essentially concern trolling.
    No you didn't. You dismissed them - which is a different word than "assessed".

    Which is why no one takes you seriously. Someone provides a very detailed reasoning to why quick change in the United States doesn't and can't happen, and you discount it immediately.

    Symbolism is only important if what is behind it will work. Trump proved that to the world.
    The less you know, the more you believe.

    Science has promised us nothing and given us everything, faith has promised us everything and given us nothing.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    No you didn't. You dismissed them - which is a different word than "assessed".

    Which is why no one takes you seriously. Someone provides a very detailed reasoning to why quick change in the United States doesn't and can't happen, and you discount it immediately.

    Symbolism is only important if what is behind it will work. Trump proved that to the world.
    Whatever.

    I will continue supporting who I want. You continue attacking me personally. Do what you do.

    And no, I don't take YOU or Skroe seriously either

    You know what?

    Lemme rephrase this. I am not addressing you, Skroe or other similar corporate dem types now.

    You want medicare4all? You want wealth spreading? You want the rich and the powerful being cut down (metaphorically, d'oh) a notch from their smug "high ground"? You want the empire expansionism to stop? You want a government that works for (most of) THE PEOPLE, as it should?

    Then you choose somebody with a platform that most coincides with what YOU want. Don't let any "dinosaur" tell you that "this ain't possible, chief", "you shouldn't do this", or that "you should do that instead". You go for YOUR OWN interest, just like others do all the time.

    It's your right to vote for whom you think represents your wishes the best.
    Last edited by CryotriX; 2019-02-25 at 06:13 PM.

  9. #309
    The Unstoppable Force cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Whatever.
    Exactly. No substance, no analysis - just you attacking people who provide detailed points to their political opinions. No shock you're coming to us from Romania.

    The fact is that we don't need big promises that won't work. We need big vision and the political capital to sustain it's implementation. When you start understanding that, you might start getting taken seriously.

    Bernie has big promises without the vision/plan. That's what Skroe was very patiently trying to explain. An explanation you didn't even read before dismissing.
    The less you know, the more you believe.

    Science has promised us nothing and given us everything, faith has promised us everything and given us nothing.

  10. #310
    Herald of the Titans downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    You want the empire expansionism to stop?
    Speak for yourself.


    It's your right to vote for whom you think represents your wishes the best.
    That's ultimately all representative democracy is. You just have some say in how the country is run, nothing more. You don't automatically get to slam your political agenda down everyone's throat the minute the person you voted for is elected. They actually have to work with people who fundamentally disagree with them to govern. I'm sympathetic to some of what Bernie wants to accomplish, but I can't help but enjoy the disappointment from Bernie's cult when he doesn't get his way. If he's elected president (I'll vote for him if need be), it's going to be one disappointment after another for those that want change, and goddamn it they want it now. It will just be a repeat of Trumps presidency, without most of the embarrassment.
    Last edited by downnola; 2019-02-25 at 06:57 PM.
    “The literal mind is baffled by the ironic one, demanding explanations that only intensify the joke."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Exactly. No substance, no analysis - just you attacking people who provide detailed points to their political opinions. No shock you're coming to us from Romania.
    You are not left, and you are not our ally, ever. You're trying to bait me by attacking parts of my identity that I cannot control, such as place of birth, and you know very well who does that.

    It's insane that I have to deal with this and the forums are not purged of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Speak for yourself.
    So you want the US to keep "exporting democracy"? Then you're not an ally either. Not much to discuss.

  12. #312
    Herald of the Titans downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    So you want the US to keep "exporting democracy"? Then you're not an ally either. Not much to discuss.
    You're right, I'm not an ally to people who describe America's global position as one of expanding empire. It's an infantile and wrong way to view current geopolitics.

    They're not usually people that can be reasoned with, and they're usually the first ones to jump to the defense of countries that actually want to "expand" their "empire".

    However, there is a certain irony in someone with a Vlad the Impaler avatar whining about America's foreign policy. I'll give you credit for that subtle comedy.
    Last edited by downnola; 2019-02-25 at 07:08 PM.
    “The literal mind is baffled by the ironic one, demanding explanations that only intensify the joke."
    - Christopher Hitchens

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    However, there is a certain irony in someone with a Vlad the Impaler avatar whining about America's foreign policy. I'll give you credit for that subtle comedy.
    He was defending our country from an expanding Ottoman Empire. He was just as ruthless as his enemies, a master strategist, a great warrior that engaged in 1 to 1 combat and risked his own life when it was necessary, and he was betrayed by the European Christendom multiple times for serving as a buffer between them and the Turks. Vlad didn't want an empire for himself, he just wanted Romanians to be left alone.

    I don't agree with everything he has done though, but his portrait as my avatar seems to be doing its job fine.

  14. #314
    China will become the next world leader or at the very least be on equal footing in power with the US. Unified behind a singular leader with the worlds production hub means they will continue on that path. They can and will steal technology to further this end and regardless of what financial hard is done by the US its partners are more then willing to sell out or give in to China expansionism. China is also hitting a great time, a divide that is very large in the American populace fueled largely by the very thing people love the internet. I say the internet in general because for one it allowed me to travel aboard and see how life could be here, it has shown how positive universal healthcare systems are, it has shown us real patriots like Abby Martin disclosing the bad things the American Empire has done. Guess who wins with these large scale divides? I do not think we are anywhere close to ending this either, i think a can of worms has been opened and likely will take a very very long time to close.

    The days of America having its thumb on the scale are coming to an end faster then most would think or pretend to think. European powers are looking grim in their own right, France and Italy, Brexit so much is going on all around the world because of the poor underbelly. If nations with great social programs are having problems imagine when automation destroys what people have left in their working lives. The next global slowdown in the economy will push these fires much higher then they are now, if say another 2008 happens i would think blood would be on the streets in the western world.

    I am all for a peaceful end to this all but the time for the underbelly to not get their hands bloody either with riots or electing erratic leadership will not stop until it is given what it wants full stop. I am waiting for the student loan bomb to go off then the auto loan bomb to explode shortly there after all the while America playing the role of World Police having to fund the war machine while also exposing federal money to push up national economy. I think if something like that was to happen China will pounce and gain much more ground similar to 2008.

    All of that being said Bernie will never get his agenda 100% it is why he went far with Dental and the likes so that way the starting point of the debate starts at the end of the spectrum making the final point still to the left of the middle. The tolerant left is quickly coming to an end.

  15. #315
    The Unstoppable Force cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    You are not left, and you are not our ally, ever. You're trying to bait me by attacking parts of my identity that I cannot control, such as place of birth, and you know very well who does that.

    It's insane that I have to deal with this and the forums are not purged of it.
    Deal with what? "Attacking" you with the truth. Your faux outrage is only matched by your continued willful ignorance. You once again avoid the issues and play the ridiculous victim card.

    (also: Reported - commenting on mod behavior)

    When you're ready to talk about the shortcomings of Bernie, let us know. You'll have some pre-reading to do though.
    Last edited by cubby; 2019-02-25 at 07:53 PM.
    The less you know, the more you believe.

    Science has promised us nothing and given us everything, faith has promised us everything and given us nothing.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    When you're ready to talk about the shortcomings of Bernie, let us know. You'll have some pre-reading to do though.
    The only reason I respond to you is to keep the topic alive. No person is perfect, everyone, including Bernie, will have shortcomings. He has far more strengths than shortcomings though. I choose to focus on those.

    In short, he's willing to fight the "war" that I want fought. Since his opinions coincide with mine in this aspect, he has my support. I understand he doesn't have yours, which is fine. Just go bump the Kamala topic or something maybe? Or maybe you are waiting for the best of the best, Creepy Joe Biden, to announce? Maybe open up that Amy Klobuchar campaign topic, see how fired up people are Or Cory Booker - now he's a guy that's worth your attention, do something positive and help his popularity grow.

    But nawwwww, you gotta focus on attacking Bernie. And Tulsi. And Warren.

    I'll add a video so people can see the similarities.

    Last edited by CryotriX; 2019-02-25 at 08:24 PM.

  17. #317
    Herald of the Titans Thekri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    However, there is a certain irony in someone with a Vlad the Impaler avatar whining about America's foreign policy. I'll give you credit for that subtle comedy.
    There is also a lot of irony in that the bulk of my force in Afghanistan was Romanian. You know, full partners in our foreign policy, lol. I mean he has some legitimacy in criticism of it, I just made a massive post equally critical of it. Romania is fully complicit however, even if he personally isn't, so blaming the US is a bit disingenuous.

  18. #318
    The Unstoppable Force cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    The only reason I respond to you is to keep the topic alive. No person is perfect, everyone, including Bernie, will have shortcomings. He has far more strengths than shortcomings though. I choose to focus on those.

    In short, he's willing to fight the "war" that I want fought. Since his opinions coincide with mine in this aspect, he has my support. I understand he doesn't have yours, which is fine. Just go bump the Kamala topic or something maybe? Or maybe you are waiting for the best of the best, Creepy Joe Biden, to announce? Maybe open up that Amy Klobuchar campaign topic, see how fired up people are Or Cory Booker - now he's a guy that's worth your attention, do something positive and help his popularity grow.

    But nawwwww, you gotta focus on attacking Bernie. And Tulsi. And Warren.

    I'll add a video so people can see the similarities.
    What is adorable is that we are criticizing Bernie on his policies, and you are attacking those politicians you don't like with name calling. The fact yyou don't understand even that fundamental piece of political discourse means that the labels we've associated with you are that much more accurate.

    Reported: trolling, and you admitted it. Thanks.
    The less you know, the more you believe.

    Science has promised us nothing and given us everything, faith has promised us everything and given us nothing.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Thekri View Post
    There is also a lot of irony in that the bulk of my force in Afghanistan was Romanian. You know, full partners in our foreign policy, lol. I mean he has some legitimacy in criticism of it, I just made a massive post equally critical of it. Romania is fully complicit however, even if he personally isn't, so blaming the US is a bit disingenuous.
    Romania is an almost irrelevant entity. Our politicians are incredibly corrupt, and dumb to the point of the diaspora returning home to protest. My country is simply licking the boot that is closest. Our rulers have no pride, nor dignity, they just desperately try to siphon as much money while they have some power, and "après nous, le déluge". Should I mention that most of our politicians don't even have actual policy positions or agendas? There's no real left or right. There's just self-serving people changing parties as they see fit, with nothing much changing for most of the citizens. Old people still living in rural areas vote these corrupt politicians in, they are bought with as little as some food and drink, and no, I'm not even exaggerating, this is how things work here.

    I'm conflicted about NATO, and I am definitely for being in the EU. Being part of these alliances obviously comes with downsides. Of course Romania had no stake in Afghanistan and should not have been there.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Exactly. No substance, no analysis - just you attacking people who provide detailed points to their political opinions. No shock you're coming to us from Romania.

    The fact is that we don't need big promises that won't work. We need big vision and the political capital to sustain it's implementation. When you start understanding that, you might start getting taken seriously.

    Bernie has big promises without the vision/plan. That's what Skroe was very patiently trying to explain. An explanation you didn't even read before dismissing.
    Let's suppose that Bernie, or someone like him wins. Here is what I expect.

    I expect him to be pretty much like Obama, but hopefully a little more leftish. Obama was not very leftish.

    His foreign policy was basically a continuation of the Bush years. He did not exit any wars that Bush started, and started a few more on his own. His adventures in Honduras imply that he would be just as inclined towards a military solution with respect to Venezuela as Trump is. It seems reasonable to blame the current wave of refugees to the US on Obama and his Honduran adventure.

    On the other hand, Obama really did get "the conservative alternative to Hillarycare" passed into law. hmm THAT does not sound very leftish at all.

    OK he went to Flint Michigan to support republicans in their claim that the water in Flint Michigan was safe to drink. Hmm not very leftish either.

    Maybe the Flint Michigan issue is one where Bernie would be to the left of Obama. Just maybe a President Sanders would ride into town to work towards improving the water quality rather than claiming it's already ok. Maybe the threat of Medicare for All would prod the medical insurance companies and the pharmaceuticals to lower their prices somewhat, and provide somewhat better care. Not because they are nice. But to keep people from jumping ship for a possible Medicare for All.

    A President Sanders has absolutely no ability to do much more than that. Foreign policy under him would not change at all.

    I agree that bringing back unions just won't work. Truck drivers, for example, would NEVER work together to improve their working conditions. But maybe the threat of their return would prod some improvements in working conditions.

    And just maybe, with a lot of work and a bit of luck, maybe he can lay the groundwork for making bigger changes in the 2024 term. You have to start somewhere. And, for me, at least a President Sanders would point us in the right direction.
    Last edited by Omega10; 2019-02-25 at 09:13 PM.

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