Conclave of the Chosen impossible in lower group sizes.

[Kuruption]

People keep talking they want 10 man mythic, well Blizzard listened which is why small group scaling is so out of whack.

(but seriously, just invite more people, it'll help).

[Volardelis]

I never knew a cata boss is now a BFA boss.

[Osmeric]

Gonk > Paku > Kimbul > Akunda

Paku's haste buff hits everything, so leaving him to third means that the raptors are getting it far more often, and grouping that with akunda silences or kimbul jumps gets quite nasty.

Gonk > Kimbul > Paku > Akunda

Spellsteal the buff off Paku.

[FelPlague]

Edit: Yeah, I got the name of the boss wrong. Please forgive me

Hey guys,

My fairly average (skillwise) guild just downed this boss after pugging an extra 10 people. It seems like in 10 man, you need 3 healers for the bird to rotate cooldowns, which means you only have 5 dps for the raptors which, most of the time, you don't have dps for. Only half your raid are DPS. We tried 15 man, but we only did marginally better (+4 dps and +1 healer).

20 man was far and beyond easier. Not only did we have 2 extra healers for raid cooldowns to throw away when we needed them (don't even get me started on healing Kimbul's DoT), but we also had 15% extra dps for raptors. After about 20 total wipes, we got it down after 3-4 with 20 people (if that).

I understand Blizzard doesn't want to balance like they did at the start of Legion or in WoD where you'd take 14 people to make it easier but you have to at least make smaller groups possible or give slightly better loot. That said, I'd prefer to avoid pugging in general as you can get real slackers or uncooperative people who will just end up wasting your time.

My suggestion would be to increase the time between damage on the bird's aoe for every 1 person below 20 man, like on Vectis. Then, so you aren't screwing with the flow, increase the other loa abilitie's spawn time by that many seconds.

My other suggestion would be to either decrease the speed or damage of the raptors of the raptors by 1.5% for every person under 20 man to make up for the 15% dps loss in 10 man.

The fact that raptors would spawn during the bird aoe meant our healers had to have everyone to full at the end of it, and then we also had a lesser ratio of DPS to deal with it. The above suggestions should make 10 manning this possible for the average 10 man guild, whilst still keeping 20 man far easier for those who want that.

Here's our logs if it helps: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BzkRAyvTJZx1CQ3K.

Other than that, I really like this fight. In a 20 man team it feels well designed and just enough is happening that it never feels like there's nothing to do. Even when you're just sitting on the boss, you know raptors are coming soon, you know there's a frog hopping about, you have to coordinate tank swaps soon, you know you need a raid CD soon etc. etc. On top of that, nothing is too complex. So as soon as you've figured one thing out you can do it like clockwork the next time, rarely having that same issue again and figure out the next thing that needs to be figured.

Cheers!

looking at your logs you guys seem to be running to paku LAST MINUTE meaning you have no time to pre-heal
also simply stacking your group with your tanks to the sides makes it much easier to simply aoe heal.

[Lollis]

If you found either Rasta or Blockade harder with smaller group sizes it's because the majority of the players you had when you shrunk the size didn't do the mechanics properly.

Blockade is especially a joke in smaller group sizes, where you don't even need a good strat or positioning at all.

We had an unusually large group for tonights heroic clear and Blockade certainly is far easier with a larger group especially with regards to the ships, they go down so fast but that could be mainly due to our gear. Phase 2 is a little more messy but I think that was because we weren't expecting so much shit everywhere.

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Gonk > Kimbul > Paku > Akunda

Spellsteal the buff off Paku.

Unless you have a couple of mages willing to throw all their mana away or atleast dispels who are on point, it just isn't viable. And getting Paku at the same time as Akunda silence? And maybe even coupling that with Raptors? Fucked is what comes to mind.

It's far easier to do Gonk > Paku > Kimbul > Akunda

[Osmeric]

Unless you have a couple of mages willing to throw all their mana away or atleast dispels who are on point, it just isn't viable.

It's quite viable. This is the strategy we use in heroic, and it works better than killing Paku second.

[Tech614]

Unless you have a couple of mages willing to throw all their mana away or atleast dispels who are on point, it just isn't viable. And getting Paku at the same time as Akunda silence? And maybe even coupling that with Raptors? Fucked is what comes to mind.

It's far easier to do Gonk > Paku > Kimbul > Akunda

Can't even take your comment about Blockade being "easier" with a bigger group serious if you think getting rid of paku buff is an issue. Between DH, Sham, Mage, Priest and if horde even BE racial it's literally a non existent issue.

[Lollis]

Can't even take your comment about Blockade being "easier" with a bigger group serious if you think getting rid of paku buff is an issue. Between DH, Sham, Mage, Priest and if horde even BE racial it's literally a non existent issue.

As I said, Paku and Akunda at the same time is annoying. It's far easier to do Gonk > Paku > Kimbul > Akunda. Try it.

Why are you wasting your time with dispelling if you don't have to?

And well, take me serious or not, but both ships were swapped before Sister Katherine got to her 2nd voltaic.

[Slath]

Can't even take your comment about Blockade being "easier" with a bigger group serious if you think getting rid of paku buff is an issue. Between DH, Sham, Mage, Priest and if horde even BE racial it's literally a non existent issue.

Please, tell me how do you get to be horde on council, i’d love to try it

[Tech614]

Please, tell me how do you get to be horde on council, i’d love to try it

I actually just overlooked that, so toodles sir, ya got me.

It's still a non issue unless you literally have a comp that lacks the classes I named which is pretty much impossible.

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And well, take me serious or not, but both ships were swapped before Sister Katherine got to her 2nd voltaic.

So the fact that the fight gets faster week to week as you get more gear clearly means more people made it easier?

In a 14 man alt raid we killed heroic champion like 10s after the seal change! Must of been so fast because of the low group size and not the fact everyone is over 400 ilvl now!

PS Paku is literally the most irrelevant member in the fight, not only is it viable to kill him 3rd, it's even viable to kill him last and many groups even did that week 1. I'm sorry that all the pre raid strat sheets made him seem dangerous but he's not.

[Magicpot]

It's quite viable. This is the strategy we use in heroic, and it works better than killing Paku second.

We just kill paku first, then gonk. The hexes aren't that bad, and getting raptors with speed buff is quite cancerous.

[Lollis]

So the fact that the fight gets faster week to week as you get more gear clearly means more people made it easier?

The week before with a smaller group the ships took longer and our gear hasn't improved dramatically enough since then for it to be the reason for the change. How about enough with the high and mighty bullshit?

[Tziva]

I fixed your thread title for ya just so there's no future confusion

[Gasparde]

Did the boss with 14 people in week 2, 4 healers, avg raid ilvl 394, no problem.

Iirc the very last Pa'ku storm was where our healers required everyone to use personal CDs, other than that I didn't hear a single moan. The raptors were pretty much handled by our 2 moonkins and 1 shadow, no one else really needed to do anything about them. The only 'nasty' part for smaller groups is that Kimbul always jumping 4 targets is way more likely to give people multiple stacks in a small raid than it is in a 30 man raid. Other than that, absolutely no big deal.

If you have problems with this boss after 4 week and with everyone probably having 405 ilvl you're just bad. Yes, this boss is slightly harder with fewer people, but it's not like it's impossible with 14 people and suddenly stupidly easy with 15. The counter argument could be made for fights like Opulence where having 15 people on the lightning drop side makes space a way more significant issue than in a 10 man raid where only 2 people get to drop shit. Perfect balance is impossible when there's a potential difference of 20 players, but Conclave is in no way significantly harder with fewer people... just slightly more annoying to deal with. Your problem is more likely than not simply pushing at the wrong timings and people just generally not being good at dealing with the 2 mechanics the encounter throws at them.

Unless you have a couple of mages willing to throw all their mana away or atleast dispels who are on point, it just isn't viable. And getting Paku at the same time as Akunda silence? And maybe even coupling that with Raptors? Fucked is what comes to mind.

Don't push the boss at silly timing then. The only uncontrollable overlaps are certain Pa'ku storms, Kragwa jumps and Gonk raptors, everything can be timed perfectly so that you can deal with it individually.