Glass cannon is dead for raids, we are essentially an intellect buff now

[Alphatorg]

I don't think you understand what bad class design means, Frost/Fire is extremely fun, it's the tuning that might be a problem.

BF fishing is a solid candidate for worst gameplay I've ever experienced in the game. Both specs feel incredibly slow/dumb and have frustrating RNG elements in Pyroclasm and BF/GS.

[CptEgo]

BF fishing is a solid candidate for worst gameplay I've ever experienced in the game. Both specs feel incredibly slow/dumb and have frustrating RNG elements in Pyroclasm and BF/GS.

You should try affliction, destruction and many other specs that are ten times more boring.

[Kaver]

Currently Frost is overall the best ranged spec for M+ (maybe competing with Demo but Demo is going to get nerfed). Frost is likely going to be the only ranged spec we will see frequently used in MDI. I agree that all the mage specs could use a buff in relation to raids, however it is difficult to buff Frost for raids without making it OP for M+.

[mrgreenthump]

Currently Frost is overall the best ranged spec for M+ (maybe competing with Demo but Demo is going to get nerfed). Frost is likely going to be the only ranged spec we will see frequently used in MDI. I agree that all the mage specs could use a buff in relation to raids, however it is difficult to buff Frost for raids without making it OP for M+.

I dunno, buffing Ice Lance would be a start. With that you would get rid of the No-IL build and it isn't that op for M+, because it's only 2 target cleave. Flat percentage buff wouldn't be too bad either, but then you would have to look at maybe nerfing AoE burst at the same time.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I dunno, buffing Ice Lance would be a start.

Nerf FF 35% and buff the global aura 5.5%. Fixes the degenerate spec.

[mrgreenthump]

Nerf FF 35% and buff the global aura 5.5%. Fixes the degenerate spec.

But i like my 3xFF ;P

[MrExcelion]

Currently Frost is overall the best ranged spec for M+ (maybe competing with Demo but Demo is going to get nerfed). Frost is likely going to be the only ranged spec we will see frequently used in MDI. I agree that all the mage specs could use a buff in relation to raids, however it is difficult to buff Frost for raids without making it OP for M+.

Since this is a raid-centric thread, like another poster said, buffing Ice Lance would be the spell to target for a raid damage buff. Maybe even Thermal Void or Ray too but they'd have to do a whole lot to those talents. Or you know, Mirror Image. Haven't taken that since Emerald Nightmare. But to touch briefly upon M+, is Frost really the best ranged overall? I thought it'd be balance druid for the utility (plus drums and war scrolls are a thing)

Unfortunately no changes in 8.1.5 though

[Nitros14]

Could just buff arcane and fire, since mage is just blatantly inferior to warlock and spriest in raids.

[MrExcelion]

Could just buff arcane and fire, since mage is just blatantly inferior to warlock and spriest in raids.

8.1.5 should have done something, yeah, agreed. I think they only buffed BM and nerfed Demo for the whole patch.

[Xkiller9000]

rework fire wtf

clearly a troll post

Fire is and has been one of the most consistently fun specs in the game

[msdos]

Multi-dotting is out of control right now because so much of the dot damage is stuffed inside 1-2 dots. Back in the day multi-dotting was more punished by the GCD and the debuff limit and the fact that Warlocks had quite a few dots, the ramp up was extreme, damage spread out.

Now you slap 2 dots back to back on every single thing and just start immediately going HAM.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

But i like my 3xFF ;P

3xFF would still be great, just not head and shoulders above everything else.

[Muajin76]

I dunno..i see raids looking for mages on occassion.
They have to be wanted by some raid groups.

[MrExcelion]

BF fishing is a solid candidate for worst gameplay I've ever experienced in the game. Both specs feel incredibly slow/dumb and have frustrating RNG elements in Pyroclasm and BF/GS.

I do think it's a shame that Frozen Touch ended up not being the best simming talent, even though that talent was specifically made to help with the gameplay feel of bad luck streaks (though Ebonbolt helps sort of, but with a long cooldown)

Overall I think they should have done some tuning on the underused talents (Mirror Image, Ray, Fire/Arcane talents etc). Some of them are so far behind that they might as well not be considered options.

[nickseng]

I do think it's a shame that Frozen Touch ended up not being the best simming talent, even though that talent was specifically made to help with the gameplay feel of bad luck streaks (though Ebonbolt helps sort of, but with a long cooldown)

I disagree. A passive talent should never be the best dps talent compared to an active one. (yes, i know IF is the best talent for frost, but I consider that a fail)

[Trumpcat]

Mirror Image should be back as a baseline spell and the images should cleave, pad and aoe. That will help for a much needed damage boost in all specs.

Also it's a fun button to press unlike most cooldowns that are just an invisible buff.

Or keep it as a baseline which creates one image and a talent that adds two more. Jaina sure is doing well with her Prismaric Image.

Bonus for OPness: images soak a portion of the damage done to you.

[La]

I disagree. A passive talent should never be the best dps talent compared to an active one. (yes, i know IF is the best talent for frost, but I consider that a fail)

And that is because what? EB should do more damage than Frozen Touch because you have to push one more button in your 3 button rotation? Yes, highly more deserving, since that is so difficult to pull off and requires so much more effort than a passive. The only argument you'd have for that is Rune of Power and Incanter's Flow, but considering how frost plays it makes complete sense that IF is the best. Not to mention, in my opinion, RoP has been aids since its inception.

[Tycruise]

Nerf FF 35% and buff the global aura 5.5%. Fixes the degenerate spec.

THIS is what should have happened instead of the WF nerf.

[gallamann]

I dunno, buffing Ice Lance would be a start. With that you would get rid of the No-IL build and it isn't that op for M+, because it's only 2 target cleave. Flat percentage buff wouldn't be too bad either, but then you would have to look at maybe nerfing AoE burst at the same time.

This is like 3rd time I have seen someone state "No-IL" build. For the life of me I can't figure out how that would exist. You are always going to get FoF procs and should never use IL unless you have a FoF proc, or nothing else while moving. So what does this really mean?

[mrgreenthump]

This is like 3rd time I have seen someone state "No-IL" build. For the life of me I can't figure out how that would exist. You are always going to get FoF procs and should never use IL unless you have a FoF proc, or nothing else while moving. So what does this really mean?

With No-IL build you literally do not use IL, ever.. Unless you cannot cast Glacial/flurry/frostbolt/ebonbolt/frozen orb/comet storm. There is also an adaptation that you only use IL procs when your Glacial will not line up well with Incanter's flow.

The build is somewhat trait specific though and can be a dps loss if you have traits that buff ice lance damage.