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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsav1 View Post
    I wish I could like cloudburst, ever since they added it to the game I've tried so hard to find it useful. I understand that it's good and I'm not trying to say people shouldn't use it, I just wish I personally could like it.
    Now you are simply casting it on CD and let it heal people for you.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Freshouttajail View Post
    But it can't heal more than 5. Like, do you even know what your own skills do?
    Oh, the irony. Healing Rain can heal up to 6 targets, to begin with. So your base understanding of the spell is already wrong.

    You can say that incidental healing is useless because it doesn't "save lives" as much as you want, but that doesn't make it true. You're one healer out of a team, this "useless" healing (as you call it) keeps your raid healthy at an efficient cost. Healing Rain isn't meant to triage and save lives. But saying it's bad because of that is like saying a car is useless because it doesn't taste good. Gotta use the toolkit for what it's intended for..

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Consiliem View Post
    Oh, the irony. Healing Rain can heal up to 6 targets, to begin with. So your base understanding of the spell is already wrong. .
    LOL I noticed the guy acting like he knew what all of his spells do actually knows nothing and hasn't commented after this.. I love it.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    Please give me your logs. I really want to see how a guy who thinks HR is bad, and CB is 'good only on conclave' performs. We will continue this topic after you do that. Right now I am not sure if I should take seriously what you are saying or if you are trolling
    To be fair, I feel the same about you lol. Maybe it's just about play style and both of our shits work.

    I don't post logs because there's always shitty trolls who will comment stupid shit about whatever, I don't want this forum to know who my character is or even to get my guild involved in this as it all would become public and people are shitty but I can post screenshots.

    That's my heroic parses.
    https://ibb.co/8PhbXZt

    That's my mythic parses.
    https://ibb.co/JjhsLW1
    I know, some real winner Jadefire and Grong kills right there that we got this week by the skin of our asses with like 5 people alive (not me lolz).

    And this is my Champion of the Light mythic breakdown that I get when I click on the 91 from the previous picture.
    https://ibb.co/RBMZxJ2
    I picked this one because it's a relevent fight for healing rain as most dps and heals stand close enough to be in healing rain. I highly doubt I kept it up at all times, probably a decent amount, but even if I did it perfectly I really don't think it would have done impressively more since it's already my highest overheal.

    I get that it's not as good as being able to scroll through everything and I'm sorry about that but I'm not letting the swamp people (not saying you are) of this forum know my character or my guild. If you want more info I can post more screenshots.

    I would also like to see your logs in any form you feel like showing. I have a feeling that we're just both playing differently and we make it work. I mean I've seen people spam Healing Surge all day and get shit done while I almost don't cast that ever, so who knows.

    EDIT: the image thing straight up doesn't work, lemme fix that lol...
    EDIT2: I put links in instead of images since I don't know how to fix that directly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Consiliem View Post
    Oh, the irony. Healing Rain can heal up to 6 targets, to begin with. So your base understanding of the spell is already wrong.

    You can say that incidental healing is useless because it doesn't "save lives" as much as you want, but that doesn't make it true. You're one healer out of a team, this "useless" healing (as you call it) keeps your raid healthy at an efficient cost. Healing Rain isn't meant to triage and save lives. But saying it's bad because of that is like saying a car is useless because it doesn't taste good. Gotta use the toolkit for what it's intended for..
    Oh well, 6 and 5 are at the opposite sides of the keyboard, that simply could never be a typo of any kind.
    I said it was bad in the terms that it doesn't justify wasting an azerite trait over it. Healing rain does its job, it's never high in the meter and it doesn't save lives but of course the bits of healing it does is not USELESS. Sorry for exaggerating and sorry you're taking this so literally.
    I completely understand that not all heal skills will be equally strong, but let's not pretend healing rain has a very noticeable contribution to the success of the raid either.
    Last edited by Freshouttajail; 2019-03-01 at 06:54 PM.

  5. #25

    Come on...

    Mythic Parses:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=11
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=27
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=23

    Healing rain is contributing a significant portion of healing, at a fraction of the mana cost of chain heal. Its about efficiency. Shaman are decent triage healers but it our niche is aoe healing. Not saying you're WRONG for not utilizing healing rain more, but to say having one of the azerite traits enhancing it when the hps/mana is so high is just misleading. Other less experienced healers would read your statements and just not use it because "wow he does mythic he must be right". State opinions as such, not as facts.

  6. #26
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    Well assuming you cast healing rain, it will be high on your meter. Its 2nd/3rd for me on most fights in mythic. Our other shaman, its his highest heal on mekkatorque (he casts alot more than me), probably because I prefer to dps during "downtime" but its certainly not wasteful healing.

  7. #27
    For the record, having more that 5 or 6 people in a healing rain is good as the spell will pick the lowest target, thus taking more advantage of mastery and also not overhealing. So having a larger circle will add a HPS benefit when considering that.

    Also to kill two birds with one stone. Here is a log of myself of mythic Jadefire. Shows that Sprouting spirits is good for more than just MJaina and Healing rain is a great spell that should be cast on CD.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=19

  8. #28
    Sprout's is good for progression. IP is good for farm if, for some reason, your guild doesn't reduce the amount of healers to get more DPS in for faster kills.

    Healing rain is one of our best spells. The amount of healing it does isnt really relevant if you're just looking at meters. It's about efficiency.

    Cloudburst is amazing this raid. Anyone who thinks otherwise is.. misinformed.

    If you're not spending downtime dpsing then you're just bad/mediocre. Other healers can spot heal better and more efficiently.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Unfurth View Post
    Mythic Parses:
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=11
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=27
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=23

    Healing rain is contributing a significant portion of healing, at a fraction of the mana cost of chain heal. Its about efficiency. Shaman are decent triage healers but it our niche is aoe healing. Not saying you're WRONG for not utilizing healing rain more, but to say having one of the azerite traits enhancing it when the hps/mana is so high is just misleading. Other less experienced healers would read your statements and just not use it because "wow he does mythic he must be right". State opinions as such, not as facts.
    I could probably use it more yeah. But I feel like to get logs that looks like yours I would literally have to stop healing. Just let healing rain pad because if I heal I'll just full people before healing rain does enough, resulting in it being lower and lower.
    BTW I didn't say that I NEVER use it. I just feel like most of the time it's just way far in the background doing it's little thing. Like, even if I had overflowing shore it wouldn't really have made a difference there.

    As for mana efficiency, I dunno man, the difference really isn't that huge compared to chain heal, specially with high tide and the fact that chain heal gets mana back from crits and HR doesn't. Like if people are low and my healing rain is running out, I'm not gonna waste the entire cast time to put up something that won't help anyone right now. I'll chain heal and other direct heals.

    To be really convinced of focusing on keeping HR all the time I would need to see logs that look like mine but have HR right behind my healing wave. If having HR up there means everything else is insanely lower then I really, really don't see the point at all since it's way less flexible and reliable, more situational and less fun (to me at least).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyance1 View Post
    For the record, having more that 5 or 6 people in a healing rain is good as the spell will pick the lowest target, thus taking more advantage of mastery and also not overhealing. So having a larger circle will add a HPS benefit when considering that.

    Also to kill two birds with one stone. Here is a log of myself of mythic Jadefire. Shows that Sprouting spirits is good for more than just MJaina and Healing rain is a great spell that should be cast on CD.

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=19
    In what situation are people forced to be 1-2 yard outside of healing rain? They can almost always be inside even if it's small or we're forced to spread which doesn't really make that big of a difference to have it 2 yards bigger. And if there's any situation like that, how important is a healing rain's tick with low X% bonus from mastery on that person?

    Like you need a legit planet alignement to make this extremely specific situation happen and even more to make it valuable to get the trait.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    Sprout's is good for progression. IP is good for farm if, for some reason, your guild doesn't reduce the amount of healers to get more DPS in for faster kills.

    Healing rain is one of our best spells. The amount of healing it does isnt really relevant if you're just looking at meters. It's about efficiency.

    Cloudburst is amazing this raid. Anyone who thinks otherwise is.. misinformed.

    If you're not spending downtime dpsing then you're just bad/mediocre. Other healers can spot heal better and more efficiently.
    Cloud Burst is good until you play good enough to take full advantage of Flash Flood to outheal it entirely on top of still having healing stream on the side.

    There are some specific boss abilities where cloud burst really shines, but even there, Flash Flood and Healing stream aren't far enough behind to justify every other dozens of situation where they are just miles ahead.
    Last edited by Freshouttajail; 2019-03-01 at 08:19 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Freshouttajail View Post
    I could probably use it more yeah. But I feel like to get logs that looks like yours I would literally have to stop healing. Just let healing rain pad because if I heal I'll just full people before healing rain does enough, resulting in it being lower and lower.
    BTW I didn't say that I NEVER use it. I just feel like most of the time it's just way far in the background doing it's little thing. Like, even if I had overflowing shore it wouldn't really have made a difference there.

    As for mana efficiency, I dunno man, the difference really isn't that huge compared to chain heal, specially with high tide and the fact that chain heal gets mana back from crits and HR doesn't. Like if people are low and my healing rain is running out, I'm not gonna waste the entire cast time to put up something that won't help anyone right now. I'll chain heal and other direct heals.

    To be really convinced of focusing on keeping HR all the time I would need to see logs that look like mine but have HR right behind my healing wave. If having HR up there means everything else is insanely lower then I really, really don't see the point at all since it's way less flexible and reliable, more situational and less fun (to me at least).

    - - - Updated - - -



    In what situation are people forced to be 1-2 yard outside of healing rain? They can almost always be inside even if it's small or we're forced to spread which doesn't really make that big of a difference to have it 2 yards bigger. And if there's any situation like that, how important is a healing rain's tick with low X% bonus from mastery on that person?

    Like you need a legit planet alignement to make this extremely specific situation happen and even more to make it valuable to get the trait.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Cloud Burst is good until you play good enough to take full advantage of Flash Flood to outheal it entirely on top of still having healing stream on the side.

    There are some specific boss abilities where cloud burst really shines, but even there, Flash Flood and Healing stream aren't far enough behind to justify every other dozens of situation where they are just miles ahead.
    You're able to do a lot more effective dps with cloudburst though. Build up the amount of healing necessary for the coming damage spike, then dps. Flash Flood requires us to use single target heals, which is unecessary on a lot of fights.

    Good talent, though, and a lot easier to play.

  11. #31
    Lets face it: most of the healing traits are fucking useless.

    Just stack igneous potential and treacherous covenant and blast the bosses with 45k lavabursts. Not even a troll. pewpew

    I mean the spirit link trait is kinda ok but you only get value out of it like once or twice a fight.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    You're able to do a lot more effective dps with cloudburst though. Build up the amount of healing necessary for the coming damage spike, then dps. Flash Flood requires us to use single target heals, which is unecessary on a lot of fights.

    Good talent, though, and a lot easier to play.
    If you just need to do 5 second of healing during cloudburst and then DPS then you don't even need cloudburst at all. The whole point of cloud burst is to heal the entire time and have it do a big burst at the end, only in the extremely rare situations where there's that much dmg going on for that long. In every other situations it's entirely unnecessary and could be healed by virtually anything else lol. Maybe I just run with too many druids to make something like that have any form of utility. Basically how we work is people get low, I pop them up with chain heals and healing waves and they get topped by a million hots after. I tried playing with cloud burst quite a few times I even have macro's and WA and shit. It's a really fun talent. But all my performances where way worse with that skill. I just machine gun with flash flood and it's working perfectly fine for me and my raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Lets face it: most of the healing traits are fucking useless.

    Just stack igneous potential and treacherous covenant and blast the bosses with 45k lavabursts. Not even a troll. pewpew

    I mean the spirit link trait is kinda ok but you only get value out of it like once or twice a fight.
    That once or twice still does like 300% more than every other traits (actually much more than that in many cases). I would love an entire set of azerite armor with 3 spouting spirit and 3 IP tho. But I've become addicted to the extra mana back at 20% and play according to that, so I have 3 of that and 3 spouting spirit, once I gt enough to snipe 415 piece with residuum I'll see what kind of puzzle I can do with traits but right now I feel like my options are limited because I love my current combo so much.
    I have a ele set with IPs, but the other traits are all straight up shit for resto.

  13. #33
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    The healing rain trait increases the total area of healing rain by about 44%, so even though 2 yards might not sound like much its actually pretty big. It's one of the stronger traits without even factoring the area increase in. Makes it easier to play with, same with the spirit link one.

  14. #34

    Red face Typo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freshouttajail View Post
    Oh well, 6 and 5 are at the opposite sides of the keyboard, that simply could never be a typo of any kind.
    I said it was bad in the terms that it doesn't justify wasting an azerite trait over it. Healing rain does its job, it's never high in the meter and it doesn't save lives but of course the bits of healing it does is not USELESS. Sorry for exaggerating and sorry you're taking this so literally.
    I completely understand that not all heal skills will be equally strong, but let's not pretend healing rain has a very noticeable contribution to the success of the raid either.
    I'm not going to crucify you over not knowing that it was 6 targets instead of 5, I even had to double check to make sure I was right when I first thought it was 6 to begin with.

    If you healing the way that you have been healing works for you and your raid, then great! It's your sub, you do what works for you guys, full stop. But the majority of the best Resto Shaman in the community have Healing Rain as one of the top 3 priority spells to keep on cooldown, in generally any situation where it will heal multiple people. The trait that makes it bigger is significant when you have a loose-spread melee clump, or for when the melee have to adjust a bit here or there like on Stormwall, or even to put directly under the boss so you hit the tanks and the melee group. Go look at Niseko's guide on Wowhead, or the Icy Veins guide, or go read through Ancestral Guidance, or either of the two Resto Shaman discords. I'm not trying to argue with you, but trying to say that it was a typo instead of admitting a simple mistake that has next-to-zero relevance on your overall point is... sad.

    For clarity on why it definitely wasn't a typo:
    Quote Originally Posted by Freshouttajail View Post
    Overflowing shore is useless, healing rain in general is almost useless, does shit healing and is limited to 5 targets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Freshouttajail View Post
    Increasing the range doesn't increase the healing it does. There will already be more than 5 people who needs healing in it (assuming you use it where the fight allows).
    Quote Originally Posted by Freshouttajail View Post
    But it can't heal more than 5. Like, do you even know what your own skills do?
    Last edited by Consiliem; 2019-03-04 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Typing is hard

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Consiliem View Post
    I'm not going to crucify you over not knowing that it was 6 targets instead of 5, I even had to double check to make sure I was right when I first thought it was 6 to begin with.

    If you healing the way that you have been healing works for you and your raid, then great! It's your sub, you do what works for you guys, full stop. But the majority of the best Resto Shaman in the community have Healing Rain as one of the top 3 priority spells to keep on cooldown, in generally any situation where it will heal multiple people. The trait that makes it bigger is significant when you have a loose-spread melee clump, or for when the melee have to adjust a bit here or there like on Stormwall, or even to put directly under the boss so you hit the tanks and the melee group. Go look at Niseko's guide on Wowhead, or the Icy Veins guide, or go read through Ancestral Guidance, or either of the two Resto Shaman discords. I'm not trying to argue with you, but trying to say that it was a typo instead of admitting a simple mistake that has next-to-zero relevance on your overall point is... sad.

    For clarity on why it definitely wasn't a typo:






    Seriously what's the difference? Change the number to 6 and all my points are still valid, the skill should heal every single person in it like it did back when the game was fun and the fact that it's limited now drastically reduces the utility of the skill, whatever if it's 5 or 6 or 10, still a stupid as shit concept to make a giant fucking circle that decides on its own to refuse to heal some people that are in it.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Freshouttajail View Post
    Seriously what's the difference? Change the number to 6 and all my points are still valid, the skill should heal every single person in it like it did back when the game was fun and the fact that it's limited now drastically reduces the utility of the skill, whatever if it's 5 or 6 or 10, still a stupid as shit concept to make a giant fucking circle that decides on its own to refuse to heal some people that are in it.
    There is next-to-zero difference, which is why I literally said that it has "next-to-zero relevance on your overall point".

    My point is that saying things such as, "Like, do you even know what your own skills do?", is never a constructive nor helpful thing to add to any discussion. If you want to express your point, great, most of us are here to listen to it and debate with you in a positive and open forum. But there is no need to personally attack anybody who is trying to join in on the conversation, especially if they're wrong. Nobody is wrong on purpose.

    Now to your point, it would be great if Healing Rain healed everybody in the circle, but then it would have to be balanced around doing so, which means one of a few things: either it heals everybody for a really useless amount (like 1k), or it heals for roughly what it does now on everybody in range and costs 3.33 times the mana, or it ends up having a really long cooldown and just becomes another Healing Tide Totem. Those are all fine, but then it's basically just another "powerful/expensive AoE heal", and we already have that in Chain Heal. Diversity in a toolkit is a wonderful thing, and being able to do efficient and continuous AoE healing without committing a quarter of our mana bar to do it is a good tool to have. It healing less people doesn't reduce the utility of the ability, it simply reduces its power, which is not a strong burst heal by design; it does what it is designed to do, and does it very well.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Consiliem View Post
    There is next-to-zero difference, which is why I literally said that it has "next-to-zero relevance on your overall point".

    My point is that saying things such as, "Like, do you even know what your own skills do?", is never a constructive nor helpful thing to add to any discussion. If you want to express your point, great, most of us are here to listen to it and debate with you in a positive and open forum. But there is no need to personally attack anybody who is trying to join in on the conversation, especially if they're wrong. Nobody is wrong on purpose.

    Now to your point, it would be great if Healing Rain healed everybody in the circle, but then it would have to be balanced around doing so, which means one of a few things: either it heals everybody for a really useless amount (like 1k), or it heals for roughly what it does now on everybody in range and costs 3.33 times the mana, or it ends up having a really long cooldown and just becomes another Healing Tide Totem. Those are all fine, but then it's basically just another "powerful/expensive AoE heal", and we already have that in Chain Heal. Diversity in a toolkit is a wonderful thing, and being able to do efficient and continuous AoE healing without committing a quarter of our mana bar to do it is a good tool to have. It healing less people doesn't reduce the utility of the ability, it simply reduces its power, which is not a strong burst heal by design; it does what it is designed to do, and does it very well.
    Yeah of course it would need to be rebalanced but I think that's fine. It just makes no sense the way it's designed now. Imagine a guy taking dmg and he wants to play smart so he moves in the blue circle but... nope, not allowed to get healed because there's other people with less hp in it. That's troll as shit and visually incoherent.

    Healing rain used to heal everybody in it and everything was fine, of course that also depends on the encounters and type of dmg going on but I just hate the current mechanics of the skill.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Freshouttajail View Post
    Yeah of course it would need to be rebalanced but I think that's fine. It just makes no sense the way it's designed now. Imagine a guy taking dmg and he wants to play smart so he moves in the blue circle but... nope, not allowed to get healed because there's other people with less hp in it. That's troll as shit and visually incoherent.

    Healing rain used to heal everybody in it and everything was fine, of course that also depends on the encounters and type of dmg going on but I just hate the current mechanics of the skill.
    That makes more sense, and I can see where you're coming from with the dying DPS's point of view. Nothing wrong with not liking it, that's your opinion. I prefer having an efficient and constant heal; I also don't have an issue with it healing the 6 lowest health targets because then our Mastery benefits as much as it can from every tick, and those are the people who need it most anyway. And if they aren't, I'm free to do other things during the duration.

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