1. #1

    Question Healers, how do you feel about all these "risk Vs Reward" loot effects in CoS?

    I have to be honest, as much as I love shadowy particle effects and void themes, the part of me that is a friend to many healer players cringed when I saw the general theme of the effects available from the CoS loot.

    Back in the early days of the “surrender to madness” talent for shadow, I remember some of the druids, DKs and warlocks I knew going on rants to the tune of “my battle rez is for emergencies, it’s not part of your damage arsenal,” back before that loophole was closed.

    Let’s be real, in a rather broad lane of the playerbase, everyone looks at the healer when they die. It’s not always right, it’s not always fair, but just like “don’t be a new tank on a PUG’s time,” it’s just an unspoken, hardline rule of the WoW community. Given this unfortunate trend, how are all you healer types feeling about the loot effects from CoS, and more to the point, the very idea behind it of “Risk Vs reward” gameplay design?

    Speaking for me, for the few times per expansion that I actually queue to heal on one of my 20+ alts, I know I don’t want any players voluntarily contributing to their own demise, a demise that will be blamed on me, more than the encounters themselves already are.

  2. #2
    If you die in high end pve content - you die cause of yourself not because of the healer. That's fact. If you blame your healer for that, seriously you are so stupid that you don't even realise how stupid you actually are. And no i don't mind healing anyone playing with s2m back in the days. Why would i even be bothered.

  3. #3
    I'm pretty sure none of the healers are going to take the voidstone trinket, despite how much I love the graphics. It's too much of a gamble and a set back for what it does. Given the ambient healing being spread around, chances are that it's just going to eat up heals, and not damage.

    I do like the tank trinket that basically slurps up a little extra health from people around the tank. If the tank needs a major health boost, generally the dps can afford to give a little for it.

    I'm not looking forward to the stacking buff/debuff trinket though. I'm praying that one or two of our specific dps don't get it. We have at least one dps in raid that likes to stand in mechanics for that all-important parse on the meters. If they get it, I'm pretty sure that we'll be having a talk.

  4. #4
    I couldn't care less about them. Death logs exist and I'll have no problem pointing out to someone how they got themselves killed using one of these items.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    I have to be honest, as much as I love shadowy particle effects and void themes, the part of me that is a friend to many healer players cringed when I saw the general theme of the effects available from the CoS loot.

    Back in the early days of the “surrender to madness” talent for shadow, I remember some of the druids, DKs and warlocks I knew going on rants to the tune of “my battle rez is for emergencies, it’s not part of your damage arsenal,” back before that loophole was closed.

    Let’s be real, in a rather broad lane of the playerbase, everyone looks at the healer when they die. It’s not always right, it’s not always fair, but just like “don’t be a new tank on a PUG’s time,” it’s just an unspoken, hardline rule of the WoW community. Given this unfortunate trend, how are all you healer types feeling about the loot effects from CoS, and more to the point, the very idea behind it of “Risk Vs reward” gameplay design?

    Speaking for me, for the few times per expansion that I actually queue to heal on one of my 20+ alts, I know I don’t want any players voluntarily contributing to their own demise, a demise that will be blamed on me, more than the encounters themselves already are.
    As someone who's healed since Vanilla, here's some advice. Get a nice parsing tool (Skada is what I use, most seem to use recount) and then figure out how to use it for everything else but damage. If someone dies to avoidable damage and blames me as im the healer, I link their damage taken and say I can't heal stupid.

    Sometimes it's the healers fault. Sometimes it isn't. It's really easy to tell which it is typically.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Break The Ice View Post
    I couldn't care less about them. Death logs exist and I'll have no problem pointing out to someone how they got themselves killed using one of these items.
    Exactly this is very good to show people that they FRICKING STOOD IN THE FRICKING FIRE.

    But in the end: i already quit being worried about people who blame the healer that they are dying. If somebody does, then you can actually say that if no one else is dying except him, then it's probably not my fault as a healer. But you also need to be a bit resilient to those taunts. Ignore them and go on. And also don#t forget that sometimes it's probably also your fault too; nobody's perfect, not even the healer, so sometimes it's the players fault, sometimes yours but there are also times where nobody's at fault.

    There are times where triage is necessary, so should i heal the tank that really needs heal and save the raid for the cost of an damage dealer that took too much damage (some damage is avoidable, but sometimes the dd thinks that they still need to finish their cast/rotation for the sweet bit of extra-dps). And them i'm really not feel any kind of guild.

    And for the times it is your fault: apology for it and move on, feeling any guild about it does not help at all.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    If you die in high end pve content - you die cause of yourself not because of the healer. That's fact. If you blame your healer for that, seriously you are so stupid that you don't even realise how stupid you actually are. And no i don't mind healing anyone playing with s2m back in the days. Why would i even be bothered.
    So you have never raided high end pve content. got that.

    I snack healthstones and healing potions like skittles and still have to healing surge myself pretty often. If I wouldnt play a hybrid class I would stop raiding mythic.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    So you have never raided high end pve content. got that.

    I snack healthstones and healing potions like skittles and still have to healing surge myself pretty often. If I wouldnt play a hybrid class I would stop raiding mythic.
    I can just qoute myself here. 'If you blame your healer for that, seriously you are so stupid that you don't even realise how stupid you actually are.'

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    If you die in high end pve content - you die cause of yourself not because of the healer. That's fact. If you blame your healer for that, seriously you are so stupid that you don't even realise how stupid you actually are. And no i don't mind healing anyone playing with s2m back in the days. Why would i even be bothered.
    It's entirely possible your healer fucks up and/or doesn't have the necessary throughput to outheal unavoidable damage. If what you said was true then healing at high end content would take no skill at all, after all if it takes any skill it also means there is a chance at failure. You fail at logic.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    It's entirely possible your healer fucks up and/or doesn't have the necessary throughput to outheal unavoidable damage. If what you said was true then healing at high end content would take no skill at all, after all if it takes any skill it also means there is a chance at failure. You fail at logic.
    Feel free to post some logs of high end pve content where a skilled healer fucked up healing unavoidable dmg.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Feel free to post some logs of high end pve content where a skilled healer fucked up healing unavoidable dmg.
    See, you suddenly have to qualify it. Skilled. Healers can fail.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    See, you suddenly have to qualify it. Skilled. Healers can fail.
    Ok, you can't. Thanks.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    I can just qoute myself here. 'If you blame your healer for that, seriously you are so stupid that you don't even realise how stupid you actually are.'
    Because quoting yourself makes your argument any less stupid.

    If I dont fail and use every def cd and healing available to me and still die then its the fucking healers fault.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Because quoting yourself makes your argument any less stupid.

    If I dont fail and use every def cd and healing available to me and still die then its the fucking healers fault.
    Don't bother. Dude has obviously not progressed through actual challenging content.

  15. #15
    Ooooh they just put the ilvl higher than BoD drops!

    No longer just side grades!

    I’m... kinda glad I’m not a healer main!

  16. #16

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Wtf is CoS?
    Crucible of Storms, new raid.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    I have to be honest, as much as I love shadowy particle effects and void themes, the part of me that is a friend to many healer players cringed when I saw the general theme of the effects available from the CoS loot.

    Back in the early days of the “surrender to madness” talent for shadow, I remember some of the druids, DKs and warlocks I knew going on rants to the tune of “my battle rez is for emergencies, it’s not part of your damage arsenal,” back before that loophole was closed.

    Let’s be real, in a rather broad lane of the playerbase, everyone looks at the healer when they die. It’s not always right, it’s not always fair, but just like “don’t be a new tank on a PUG’s time,” it’s just an unspoken, hardline rule of the WoW community. Given this unfortunate trend, how are all you healer types feeling about the loot effects from CoS, and more to the point, the very idea behind it of “Risk Vs reward” gameplay design?

    Speaking for me, for the few times per expansion that I actually queue to heal on one of my 20+ alts, I know I don’t want any players voluntarily contributing to their own demise, a demise that will be blamed on me, more than the encounters themselves already are.
    I feel that whenever Blizz tries to do something new combat-wise, the first thing it comes to their mind is how to properly !#$% healers in the ass. Happened with Cata HCs, then with "new raid design" which DEMANDS high mobility and strong personal survival cooldowns, and now with this weird stuff from CoS. It's interesting, sure, but it will be a pain in the rear for healers, at least until Blizzard gets their !&$% together - which usually takes a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazinger-Z View Post
    Class design [in BfA] is the rickety bridge upon which it all lays, but the rest of it are the arthritic elephants with irritable bowel syndrome trying to cross it.

  19. #19
    Some of them seem nice on paper, but in the end the actual use will mostly be niche at the best of times.

    I'm sure I can construct a use-case for every item in the raid and then attach a moniker like skill and "only one available to me", hand-wave the incredibly more numerous downsides and pretend that is a sound argument for most of them. In the end, I doubt they are actually that usefull. Same with the DPS ones, especially if some of the features (e.g. visible to all) stay in.

  20. #20
    Healer did nothing wrong
    Sorry for my english!

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