Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
LastLast
  1. #141
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    85
    You mean a 5th role, you have to agree that dps you have melle and ranged dps, both are very diferent

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    So you sit there and refresh buffs and debuffs on friends and enemies?

    Sounds like a whole lot of fun


    What's with people wanting support classes? Let's be real. You'll be afk most of the time when "playing" one.

    If it played like a normal dps, but instead of you doing the damage directly it was you buffing others to to do the damage for you, I don't see how it would be any different from playing a dps. You'd still have a full rotation, with buttons to hit every gcd. I don't see how you could possibly come to the conclusion that they'd make it just an afk buffbot, they know that's a shitty design.

    Like you could drop a banner that buffs the next 3 spells party members cast by a flat amount, increase their haste by 30% for 5 seconds, throw a debuff that increases dmg taken, throw out an attack yourself, restart the rotation. In the end it's no different than a warrior in the damage it does or the speed of the rotation, it just does damage in a different way.

    You could hand it extra utility buttons to press like a weaker AoE grip or shroud, so it could fill in for classes you may not have in your group setup.

    Plus you don't have to play it. I personally would love to play a support. I play it in other mmo's and it works just like playing a dps, you just contribute in a slightly different manner.
    Last edited by Keltas; 2019-02-26 at 11:34 AM.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    doomsayer. is that you?
    Do you honestly think that Activision is going to allow Blizzard to keep putting resources into a dying and ancient game that is rapidly losing players? It's not doomsaying, it's common sense.
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Do you honestly think that Activision is going to allow Blizzard to keep putting resources into a dying and ancient game that is rapidly losing players? It's not doomsaying, it's common sense.
    You do realize it's called activision blizzard. it's one company.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltas View Post
    If it played like a normal dps, but instead of you doing the damage directly it was you buffing others to to do the damage for you, I don't see how it would be any different from playing a dps. You'd still have a full rotation, with buttons to hit every gcd. I don't see how you could possibly come to the conclusion that they'd make it just an afk buffbot, they know that's a shitty design.

    Like you could drop a banner that buffs the next 3 spells party members cast by a flat amount, increase their haste by 30% for 5 seconds, throw a debuff that increases dmg taken, throw out an attack yourself, restart the rotation. In the end it's no different than a warrior in the damage it does or the speed of the rotation, it just does damage in a different way.

    You could hand it extra utility buttons to press like a weaker AoE grip or shroud, so it could fill in for classes you may not have in your group setup.

    Plus you don't have to play it. I personally would love to play a support. I play it in other mmo's and it works just like playing a dps, you just contribute in a slightly different manner.
    that's the fun of it. you actually coordinate cooldowns with other dpsers to have great synergy. the better they do, the more damage they do.

  5. #145
    Blizzard (and to some degree I wouldn't necessarily fault them for that) struggle to balance the three roles and specs they've already got and you want to add a fourth?

  6. #146
    Pandaren Monk Playintrafic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Gnomeregan
    Posts
    1,825
    Already have 4 roles. Ranged, Melee, Healer, Tank.

    Support classes were fluff for old style mmos that didnt really try and achieve any sort of balance.

  7. #147
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Coolsville, Daddio
    Posts
    9,354
    Support roles are the least popular role of any game. People don't want to exist only to make other people do more damage or healing.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  8. #148
    I very much doubt it. It doesn't fit into their current design philosophy where all classes have to have similarly performing, homogenous mechanics and it doesn't fit their design philosophy of eSports events like Arena Championships or M+ Invitational.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    This topic comes up every few months.

    Blizzard last tried a support role in Diablo 2 with the Necromancer back in the year 2000. It was known as the "curse bitch". You really didn't attack directly but instead buff and debuff players and enemies. You had amp damage, thorns, dim vision, weaken, iron maiden, etc. It was overwhelmingly considered to be a disaster, as people complained it was very very very VERY boring to play that way. It is noticeable that when WoW was released, a support class was not offered and never has been.

    So, that's why. You idea isn't new. Its really old. They tried it, it failed, and it hasn't been revisited.

    You could even argue that the old shaman totem system was a support class and they ripped it out of wow years ago.
    On the other hand, GW also have classes that are in the support role. I do not know how it worked out in groups and PvP though. The few that I did try I did find it interesting but it also very situational for some for them.

  10. #150
    It would be easier to put support abilities into a new DPS class or spec like FFXIV did with Bard. I'd say bake them into existing DPS specs but then we'd get people crying "I'M HERE TO DO DAMAGE, NOT BUFF OTHER PEOPLE! YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB!"

    A dedicated Support spec would lack the glamour of facing the boss head on, the instant gratification of seeing health bars rise and saving people from the brink. It's already hard enough finding tanks just because the vast majority of people are terrified of responsibility.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a Support spec in some form but it's not going to happen.
    Last edited by Bigby; 2019-02-26 at 08:45 PM.

  11. #151
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Heartbreak City
    Posts
    4,697
    Nope.

    It won't work. Wow was created with the tri-fecta and that is reinforced every tier and xpac.

    I commend devs who take risks, but not stupid risks like this, it ain't gonna work.

    It'll be too OP or too UP.
    The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it.

  12. #152
    It could absolutely work because we already know how it works in other games. But that's not the reason it'll never happen in WoW, which this thread shows. It's because almost no one likes the thought of it in WoW.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    This topic comes up every few months.

    Blizzard last tried a support role in Diablo 2 with the Necromancer back in the year 2000. It was known as the "curse bitch". You really didn't attack directly but instead buff and debuff players and enemies. You had amp damage, thorns, dim vision, weaken, iron maiden, etc. It was overwhelmingly considered to be a disaster, as people complained it was very very very VERY boring to play that way. It is noticeable that when WoW was released, a support class was not offered and never has been.

    So, that's why. You idea isn't new. Its really old. They tried it, it failed, and it hasn't been revisited.

    You could even argue that the old shaman totem system was a support class and they ripped it out of wow years ago.
    Worked great in everquest, my bard wasn't top deeps but bitches wanted me, and I had a great time. Works great in FF14. Could work great in wow...if blizzard started putting actual effort into the game.

  14. #154
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Strasbourg
    Posts
    830

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    I very much doubt it. It doesn't fit into their current design philosophy where all classes have to have similarly performing, homogenous mechanics and it doesn't fit their design philosophy of eSports events like Arena Championships or M+ Invitational.
    ^ this perhaps is the only thing that important and truthful of this set of nonsense which I have just read in this thread. Most people rely on their often very narrow, limited and highly controversial opinion, as an exceptional fact.

    The facts are:
    1) support role is realizable both in games of "desk type", and even in ~action projects;
    2) there're enough people enjoying such similar functionality with proper prioritization in design (and sometimes even without it; people like to be useful, it's just current design to a greater degree encourages selfishness in everything, we have repeatedly discussed that here already = another thing is that current community lack of such people);
    3) we saw fairly sane support classes and builds implementation in WoW (forget about these stupid "specs" already, they appeared exactly when system went downhill, in fact this was main sign of that event), problem is that such characters, in addition to their class, are also strongly connected with others, which automatically brings system's demand to a more stable state (it takes away much of possibility in shamelessly shaking classes design of every next expansion from devs);
    4) (as stated in quot) this concept is practically unrealizable within framework of current RPG customization system and direction of design (classes/talents/characteristics/itimization/fighting conditions), because it requires strong and universal indicators of characteristics systems, buffs and class/talents organization (and they stated themselves in one relatively recent Q&A that they aren't going to allow this to any of former hybrid classes - which automatically confirms everything above = they literally said "No!").

    ps. The last time when this being discussed in sanity was perhaps in threads with "hypothetical Bards" discussions, ex. here. Because "support" essentially is a state of mind and preference for gameplay rather than "limiting functioning" of a certain class. In short: “role” isn't “doom” (the way they made it now), but how player decides to use own class functionality (class>talents>role(stats&characteristics) priority), but since current functionality not only doesn't encourage, but rather limits/rejects similar behavior as much as possible/excludes this choice, then talk about it in framework of such system doesn't make any sense.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-06-20 at 12:02 PM.
    __---=== IMHO(+cg) and MORE |"links-inside" ===---__

    __---=== PM me WHERE if I'm unnecessarily "notifying" you ===---__

  15. #155
    Personally, I really like the idea! I would love to play a support class. As for whether or not it would work, I don't really know. But definitely like the idea

  16. #156
    OG Shamans were support monkeys with their totems and such. I rolled one for that reason. I loved dropping Windfury totem and watching my allies cream their britches at the giant crit numbers they'd be pulling off. It was fun.

    I get why Blizzard killed it, though. Since raiding became The Thing for progression, if a spec brought a unique and powerful buff like that to the table, you had to design the encounter based around the assumption that that spec would be present. If you didn't have that spec in your raid, you were at an explicit disadvantage. Moreover, since that spec was increasing other peoples' damage or protecting them from damage so effectively, the spec itself would generally have to have a lower DPS/HPS than other 'pure' damage/healing classes. This means you would only take as many of that spec as you needed to get the buff.

    Supports are kind of a dead role in MMOs these days. The last MMO that really had pure supports as an option, at least that I know of, was City of Heroes (RIP my Force Field Defender). That worked there because there wasn't a real end-game that required a lot of coordination. Sure, everyone loved to see a support and it made runs tend to go a bit faster/smoother, but if you didn't have one, you could still plow your way through the trials in that game no problem. It was less focused on keeping you hooked via progression, and more on keeping you hooked via fulfilling the fantasy.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    Support roles are the least popular role of any game.
    factually wrrong

  18. #158
    Short answer: Blizzard won't change the fundamental basics of the game that every single grouped content is based upon 15 years into said game's life cycle. So no, it's never going to be time for a 4th role.

    Long answer: I dunno, probably read the 8 pages of comments here, I'm sure someone typed out a long and in-depth comment that tells why it's not going to happen or how much of a mess it would be for in-game balance.

  19. #159
    This spec seems to be very limited to group content. It would be useless for solo content. Tanks and healers have advantage of being unkillable in solo content: tank through mitigation and healer through, well, heals. So even players who prefer tank, can quest without feeling stupid. They kill slower, but they aoe things down, so it's just a different play style. Support class by design requires other players to benefit. That's my only concern (though, until WotLK tanks and healers were pretty bad at solo content as well). Other than that, it's a great idea and I don't see anything bad about it, if implemented properly.

  20. #160
    I think my favorite Support class of all time in any MMO, aside from my old FF Defender, was Corsair from FFXI. The entire mechanic revolved around essentially playing blackjack during combat, and the game rewarded you by giving your allies enormous buffs the closer you got without busting. Just watching the party go from average players to supercharged maniacs was pretty ace. There's a lot I didn't like about FFXI, but I loved that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •