Why are people in denial about the state of the game?

[Tharkkun]

Let's look at Metacritic scores:

TBC - 8.0 user score - generally favorable reviews - subs rise
WotLK - 7.7 user score - generally favorable reviews - subs rise
Cataclysm - 5.6 user score - mixed or average reviews - subs decline
MoP - 5.0 user score - mixed or average reviews - subs stagnate
WoD - 5.9 user score - mixed or average reviews - subs decline
Legion - 7.3 user score - mixed or average reviews - subs rise
BfA - 3.1 user score - generally unfavorable reviews - subs decline

You could make an argument that Legion does not fit the pattern since it had mixed or average reviews, but 7.3 is a lot closer to TBC's 8.0 and WotLK's 7.7 than any other expansion.

The fact is that these reviews are broadly representative of the state of the game. Thousands of people can't all be wrong about something. MoP had good gameplay but unappealing story / design direction so subs stagnated. Cataclysm, WoD and BfA were all badly received and coincided with a rapid drop in sub numbers. Legion was generally seen as a return to form for the game and although we didn't get exact sub numbers, it was pretty evident that they were on the rise just judging by increased activity across all endgame content.

All of these people can't be wrong.

At least with Steam reviews you can see how many hours the person has played the game and whether they even own a copy. Metacritic is a blind review site.

That being said. Unless I can find another game that can keep my interest for long periods of time (which I find some occasionally) I don't understand why I can't continue enjoying Wow. Is it perfect? Of course not. But no game made today is perfect.

A lot of us also play for the social aspect which most forum posters can't seem to grasp either. Long standing, mature guilds where players actually know each other.

[Vampyrr]

I cannot place much of any value on some knee jerk ratings about an expansion that has barely begun. I will trust it when we are in the next expansion and can look back across all of it.

[Sansnom]

One problem. Just becouse majority use something or participate in something doesnt make it good system or feature. It is been proven many times that what majority want is in most cases bad for the game. Those people obly think they want it becouse they have absolutly no clue what impact it will have on the game. Thats wht you should make choices what is best for the game not what is best for most players. Majority of players are not game designers, investes players and mostlikely dont have enough play time to justifi their opinions.

That can be applied to any suggestion made by anyone. Including those who hate the current iteration of the game and consider their suggestion to be the savior of the game.

Also, how do you or anyone judge a feature as a good or bad for the game? One group of players hating the system does not indicate it is bad for the game overall. It may be bad for them, but them is not everyone.

[MiiiMiii]

not really a leap - you maybe dont remember but i perfeckly remember both start of Cata and Start of MoP when in case of cata thousands of "kingslayers" were whining all over forums how they cannot kill Magmaw normal and in MoP when almost all casual guilds got stuck on Elegon normal.

blizzard has been killing this game for years by catering to nolifers and "raid or die" mentality - its not suprise that BfA which is the most casual friendly expansion so far is also making most money in history of wow .

Arent you contradicting yourself?

I don't understand your argument. BfA is the most dead the game has ever been. Where do you get this information that BfA is "also making the most money in history of wow"?

Edit: I forgot I was in the thread full of people in denial about the state of the game, my bad

[stigz]

It's pretty absurd that they charge $15 a month for BfA

[kamuimac]

Arent you contradicting yourself?

I don't understand your argument. BfA is the most dead the game has ever been. Where do you get this information that BfA is "also making the most money in history of wow"?

Edit: I forgot I was in the thread full of people in denial about the state of the game, my bad

last 2 quarterly financial reports .

but hey who cares about hard data.

forum whiners are more important then any sort of data easily aviable to people

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It's pretty absurd that they charge $15 a month for BfA

its pretty absurd that in 2019 anyone cares about 15$ for anything

[tankbug]

Pretty sure I will never understand this perspective.

“How good IS this expansion?” is a much more important question than “How good WAS this expansion?”

My point was that you can't read a review of a wow expansion to learn if it's worth your time or not, as you would an independent game, and I also think that very few WoW players are sitting on the fence waiting for the reviews to come in before they make up their mind if they want to play or not. I'm not saying that it's just history that matters, but I'm asking what good or useful is a review of an expansion that we're still only half-way through, or something like that. I think the game is what it is for most players, they might be playing now and then, they might be hardcore, but I think few players that just skip the latest expansion and re-play old content while waiting for the next chapter. Maybe that will be different when classic comes, like a bunch of players retreat to vanilla while they're having a vacation from retail or aren't interested in the latest expansion.

[frayed tauren]

Essentially you have:

1) Elitist pve nerd "influencers" telling their audience BFA sucks and them parroting that sentiment because they haven't learnt to think independently yet.
2. Vanilla players trying to trash BFA so everyone will play Vanilla.

BFA actually got a massive amount right, especially pvp.

The giveaway is a complete lack of specifics in the complaints. Legitimate objections to previous xpacs were substantive: wod had no content, MOP had an awful theme, there's no real obvious criticism as such of BFA except possibly a lack of polish in pve system design. When you don't get specific objections then there is probably an ulterior motive.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't understand your argument. BfA is the most dead the game has ever been. Where do you get this information that BfA is "also making the most money in history of wow"?

I think you are in denial. If I go out into the world there are a ton of players fighting and completing quests. Much more so than in previous xpacs because of the world pvp changes. This was not the case in previous xpacs. Throughout the entirety of cataclysm people just sat in the capital cities. In Wod they stayed in the garrison. How is the game "dead" in that context? It isn't.

Blizzard stopped publishing data years ago so your "wow is dead" BS has no actual data or factual support, so it is probably just bullshit you are making up. That's how you know a thing is happening, you have facts. Not, "asmongold/heelvsbabyface said it" or "I think this" but actual substantive data.

[shoegazing]

BFA actually got a massive amount right, especially pvp.

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA HHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHH AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

BFA PVP is a joke and the entire PvP community absolutely hates it due to piss poor boring class design where everything is pruned down to a dps rotation and a few utility buttons

You must be out of your mind, or speaking on behalf of casual and low-skill PvPers only because people who really care about PvP are up in arms

[frayed tauren]

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA HHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHH AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

BFA PVP is a joke and the entire PvP community absolutely hates it due to piss poor boring class design where everything is pruned down to a dps rotation and a few utility buttons

You must be out of your mind, or speaking on behalf of casual and low-skill PvPers only because people who really care about PvP are up in arms

So the entire pvp community hates a game, but casual and low-skilled players, who make up the vast majority of the pvp community apparently like it.

And you think what I wrote was funny... Jesus.

Btw Ability pruning started in Legion, generally reckoned to be the 2nd or most successful xpac ever. Learn to google.

[ArenaDk]

All good, but I'd go back in time too, while we're at it.

Vanilla = Main project
TBC = Main Project
WotLK = Main Project

Then we get into the garbage xpacs, starting with Cataclysm. I suppose Blizzard was already rich by the time Cataclysm came out, so they stopped caring. Then came Activision, to wipe smiles off peoples faces.

But MoP was sort-of decent. So it's almost as if the cycle from MoP onward is good xPAC with lots of money, then a el'cheapo one, then a good one, etc.

Activision took control, however. So .. well, I have no expectations anymore. The next xpac is likely gonna be low quality too.

Activision-Blizzard already announced budget cuts (while pushing faster content) last year, so .. yeah. Seems low end.

Haha Imagine callin woltk a good Expansion. God dam casual

[Specialka]

Well, the pvp community is rather small so who cares if they like it or not?

[Elias01]

not really a leap - you maybe dont remember but i perfeckly remember both start of Cata and Start of MoP when in case of cata thousands of "kingslayers" were whining all over forums how they cannot kill Magmaw normal and in MoP when almost all casual guilds got stuck on Elegon normal.

blizzard has been killing this game for years by catering to nolifers and "raid or die" mentality - its not suprise that BfA which is the most casual friendly expansion so far is also making most money in history of wow .

It doesnt make most money in history. It makes more money than rest of Blizzard IPs.

[frayed tauren]

Well, the pvp community is rather small so who cares if they like it or not?

PVP as a whole is about 40% of the player population.

>LFR raiding is about 20%. Mythic is like <1%.

So it would be more accurate to say, fuck mythic raiding, fuck Preach, fuck asmongold because no one actually does it. And it is nothing to do with being hardcore, it is just most of us have lives and can't work to a raid schedule. Duh. (yes this is what you people sound like, annoying isn't it?)

[Kyphael]

I'm not in denial, yeah, the azerite system sucks, and Island Expeditions was a big bust, but I still have fun questing in the new continents, leveling allied races and doing some dungeons. I just ignore the bad stuff, and I'm not addicted. I straight up quit during all of WoD when I didn't like it, and I play like 3 hours a week sometimes tops depending on the week. But this expansion is still fun enough for me to remain subbed and I love the Kul'tiran and Zandalari lore and content. I just dislike azerite and faction war story and I ignore those best I can.

[Specialka]

PVP as a whole is about 40% of the player population.

>LFR raiding is about 20%. Mythic is like <1%.

So it would be more accurate to say, fuck mythic raiding, fuck Preach, fuck asmongold because no one actually does it. And it is nothing to do with being hardcore, it is just most of us have lives and can't work to a raid schedule. Duh. (yes this is what you people sound like, annoying isn't it?)

I do really care about mythic raiding as I do not do it. But currently, pvp is fine as long as everyone is geared equally (which is another issue).

[Seylene]

Well can only speak for myself and small group but its not so much denial as a want, we want WoW to remain that magical and fun place where we can get together and romp around. Kill some monsters (horde) and have a laugh. But with BfA they started so evil with the War of Thorns then the disconnect in the islands being a poorer version of legion and Azerite being boring. There is still that hope, with some of the cut scenes and the ideas floated there is enough teased to keep it alive and so we stubbornly hold out with fingers crossed. But I am a RPer and world pvper so I recognize our little niche allows more stubbornness than most.

[shoegazing]

So the entire pvp community hates a game, but casual and low-skilled players, who make up the vast majority of the pvp community apparently like it.

And you think what I wrote was funny... Jesus.

Btw Ability pruning started in Legion, generally reckoned to be the 2nd or most successful xpac ever. Learn to google.

Drooling casuals running around in 40v40 because they need 39 teammates to average out their own suck do NOT make up "The PvP community"

Legion was utter garbage because of its class design. Only those with a deficiency of brain cells could possibly enjoy Legion's super dumbed down and pruned class design.

"I'm too dumb to keybind my interrupts and my grounding totem so I'm really glad that Blizzard pruned classes and made the game easier for mouthbreathers like me" --mindset of people who actually enjoy Legion/BFA PvP

[Specialka]

A good thing then that Wow is a pve focused game and that pvp is a side activity.

[shoegazing]

A good thing then that Wow is a pve focused game and that pvp is a side activity.

"PvP iS a SiDe AcTiViTy So It DoEsN't MaTtEr"