Please notice Frost DK's blizzard

[Coughee]

While I am speaking strictly from a PvP perspective, a lot of this also applies to PvE.

To be brutally honest, DK's (especially frost) is in its most boring/shittiest state I've ever seen since the class was introduced in Wrath. There are several things wrong with frost so I'll just focus on the big ones that most of us know...

1- Umm... Why Dualwield?

I am not opposed to DW Frost, but 2 hander fits in a lot more with the lore (yes... a lot of us play a class based on that surprisingly) Not too long ago (legion) a lot of the damage was based on our Obliterates and Frost Strikes, and my goodness were those big crits in PvP. I hit 2300 in 1 week of play in the final week of season 7 Legion and had a blast (before GCD just killed us) The Lich King uses a 2Hander, WE used to be able to choose between 2h frost or DW frost, why force us into DW? I am not talking about just the appearance of using weapons, my second point will shed more light on this.

2- Frost fever? Really Blizzard?

Something feels very wrong with the fact that Frost fever is the main source of damage... As of writing this post, apparently Frost DK's are really underpeferoming in both PvP (all of BFA) and PvE (since 8.1) We're just severely limited by slow gameplay and very mediocre damage, no one will even bother to play with a Frost DK if they're considering to push past 2.2k because it is a tier shit class, not even a tier 3, zero! Nada! no one wants to play with a class that offers little cc and no burst? (I HAVEN'T PLAYED IN 2 MONTHS! I MAY BE EXAGGERATING)

3- I'm kinda tired, not gonna add anything else (proceeds to add final thoughts anyway), im a filthy casual at best that just likes to spam 3v3 ques, I normally play around duelist range with guildies and enjoy it, but the class is just so boring and seems to be an afterthought with the devs with almost zero changes in sight... #FDKs matter... Please consider giving us 2H frost back? Obliterate to actually do damage instead of a wet noodle crit? Something? Anything? Just let us know that you aknowledge we're complete ass and we may be content then.

[Cempa]

While I am speaking strictly from a PvP perspective, a lot of this also applies to PvE.

To be brutally honest, DK's (especially frost) is in its most boring/shittiest state I've ever seen since the class was introduced in Wrath. There are several things wrong with frost so I'll just focus on the big ones that most of us know...

1- Umm... Why Dualwield?

I am not opposed to DW Frost, but 2 hander fits in a lot more with the lore (yes... a lot of us play a class based on that surprisingly) Not too long ago (legion) a lot of the damage was based on our Obliterates and Frost Strikes, and my goodness were those big crits in PvP. I hit 2300 in 1 week of play in the final week of season 7 Legion and had a blast (before GCD just killed us) The Lich King uses a 2Hander, WE used to be able to choose between 2h frost or DW frost, why force us into DW? I am not talking about just the appearance of using weapons, my second point will shed more light on this.

2- Frost fever? Really Blizzard?

Something feels very wrong with the fact that Frost fever is the main source of damage... As of writing this post, apparently Frost DK's are really underpeferoming in both PvP (all of BFA) and PvE (since 8.1) We're just severely limited by slow gameplay and very mediocre damage, no one will even bother to play with a Frost DK if they're considering to push past 2.2k because it is a tier shit class, not even a tier 3, zero! Nada! no one wants to play with a class that offers little cc and no burst? (I HAVEN'T PLAYED IN 2 MONTHS! I MAY BE EXAGGERATING)

3- I'm kinda tired, not gonna add anything else (proceeds to add final thoughts anyway), im a filthy casual at best that just likes to spam 3v3 ques, I normally play around duelist range with guildies and enjoy it, but the class is just so boring and seems to be an afterthought with the devs with almost zero changes in sight... #FDKs matter... Please consider giving us 2H frost back? Obliterate to actually do damage instead of a wet noodle crit? Something? Anything? Just let us know that you aknowledge we're complete ass and we may be content then.

They destroyed the build in PvP and buffed UH through the roof in Blizz style .. Either play UH in PvP or park your DK for a tear or two.

The problem is the flow of combat ability priority for UH is really good, and has Death Strike as your main resource dump (DC on procs) and you don't lose damage.

Now Frost is the complete opposite, Death Strike is a huge damage reduction and you basically don't have the kill power or survival of UH.

The fix is not that hard, increase Obli damage by 10% .. After that I'd like to see Dearth Strike fit in for Frost like UH .. Maybe bake it into Frost Strike?

[xpire]

They destroyed the build in PvP and buffed UH through the roof in Blizz style .. Either play UH in PvP or park your DK for a tear or two.

The problem is the flow of combat ability priority for UH is really good, and has Death Strike as your main resource dump (DC on procs) and you don't lose damage.

Now Frost is the complete opposite, Death Strike is a huge damage reduction and you basically don't have the kill power or survival of UH.

The fix is not that hard, increase Obli damage by 10% .. After that I'd like to see Dearth Strike fit in for Frost like UH .. Maybe bake it into Frost Strike?

You actually believe a 10% buff on Obliterate is going to be enough to make a change? Think again! The ability already hits like a wet noodle. I mean at least it will hit for 11k instead of 10k. Amazing.

No.

What they need to do is go back to the drawing board and actually rework the damn spec because it's an abhorrent mess in both PVE and PVP.

[BlackBoss]

Frost DK was never meant to be a PVP spec. Frost in wrath was a thinking man's spec all the way until mid Cata. people complained then there was "Blood of the north" and its been a spamfest ever since. I do think they should have a choice between 2h and DW. I'd love to see a dw unholy.... sick shit.

[Cempa]

You actually believe a 10% buff on Obliterate is going to be enough to make a change? Think again! The ability already hits like a wet noodle. I mean at least it will hit for 11k instead of 10k. Amazing.

No.

What they need to do is go back to the drawing board and actually rework the damn spec because it's an abhorrent mess in both PVE and PVP.

Whatever the needed buff is 10% or 20% or 30% but it NEEDS a buff and self healing needs to be a DPS boost or at least DPS neutral!

[Freshouttajail]

While I am speaking strictly from a PvP perspective, a lot of this also applies to PvE.

To be brutally honest, DK's (especially frost) is in its most boring/shittiest state I've ever seen since the class was introduced in Wrath. There are several things wrong with frost so I'll just focus on the big ones that most of us know...

1- Umm... Why Dualwield?

I am not opposed to DW Frost, but 2 hander fits in a lot more with the lore (yes... a lot of us play a class based on that surprisingly) Not too long ago (legion) a lot of the damage was based on our Obliterates and Frost Strikes, and my goodness were those big crits in PvP. I hit 2300 in 1 week of play in the final week of season 7 Legion and had a blast (before GCD just killed us) The Lich King uses a 2Hander, WE used to be able to choose between 2h frost or DW frost, why force us into DW? I am not talking about just the appearance of using weapons, my second point will shed more light on this.

2- Frost fever? Really Blizzard?

Something feels very wrong with the fact that Frost fever is the main source of damage... As of writing this post, apparently Frost DK's are really underpeferoming in both PvP (all of BFA) and PvE (since 8.1) We're just severely limited by slow gameplay and very mediocre damage, no one will even bother to play with a Frost DK if they're considering to push past 2.2k because it is a tier shit class, not even a tier 3, zero! Nada! no one wants to play with a class that offers little cc and no burst? (I HAVEN'T PLAYED IN 2 MONTHS! I MAY BE EXAGGERATING)

3- I'm kinda tired, not gonna add anything else (proceeds to add final thoughts anyway), im a filthy casual at best that just likes to spam 3v3 ques, I normally play around duelist range with guildies and enjoy it, but the class is just so boring and seems to be an afterthought with the devs with almost zero changes in sight... #FDKs matter... Please consider giving us 2H frost back? Obliterate to actually do damage instead of a wet noodle crit? Something? Anything? Just let us know that you aknowledge we're complete ass and we may be content then.

1. All the skills in the game work with attack power now and not weapon dmg. Using 2 handers wouldn't make a difference unless they revert back to the old ability scaling from a long time ago. Your auto attack dmg would be better and not miss but that's about it.

2. It's true that having the dot as your top dmg is garbage. Made sense for unholy as it's always been more of dot spec but for frost it's lame.

[The One Percent]

[RuneDK]

Frost DK was never meant to be a PVP spec. Frost in wrath was a thinking man's spec all the way until mid Cata. people complained then there was "Blood of the north" and its been a spamfest ever since. I do think they should have a choice between 2h and DW. I'd love to see a dw unholy.... sick shit.

the blood of the north change was to make Frost Actually work when they changed the rune system for Cata. I still would prefer the original rune system where they regenerate once used to the shit it's been since Cataclysm. If Frost still had to convert blood runes(before the change to all death runes) it would've been an awful spec until the change to permanent deaths runes for all. So while I hated that change, it was needed.

[Alanar]

the blood of the north change was to make Frost Actually work when they changed the rune system for Cata. I still would prefer the original rune system where they regenerate once used to the shit it's been since Cataclysm. If Frost still had to convert blood runes(before the change to all death runes) it would've been an awful spec until the change to permanent deaths runes for all. So while I hated that change, it was needed.

To be honest.. now it.once again recharges what 1 is on cooldown. The changes to rune system.migjt seem like a big impact, but it fact its small/ barely noticeable. Its a overrated topic. You press your keys anyway. And now all runes are the same so now you dont even need to watch it. The onky difference was that some spells uned unholy runes or blood runes as frost.
Frost got ruined in legion we all know that.. not.much we can do about.it now sadly..

[RuneDK]

To be honest.. now it.once again recharges what 1 is on cooldown. The changes to rune system.migjt seem like a big impact, but it fact its small/ barely noticeable. Its a overrated topic. You press your keys anyway. And now all runes are the same so now you dont even need to watch it. The onky difference was that some spells uned unholy runes or blood runes as frost.
Frost got ruined in legion we all know that.. not.much we can do about.it now sadly..

That's entirely the problem..Runes don't matter anymore...They stopped mattering as frost in Cataclysm. It was boring and uninspired mechanically. Frost has needed a rework since the rune system change after Wrath and it continues to go to Unholy...Frost has been boring since Cataclysm and mechanically been kind of shit for most of the time since Cata as well.

[msdos]

People have been wasting so much energy over the years typing about how Frost is boring.

Just let these knuckle heads waste their time with it and see for themselves.

Most people who enjoy Frost these days enjoy simplicity and complain about the wound mechanic, even though the wound mechanic is perfectly fine. Hint: they're complaining about added complexity.

[RuneDK]

People have been wasting so much energy over the years typing about how Frost is boring.

Just let these knuckle heads waste their time with it and see for themselves.

Most people who enjoy Frost these days enjoy simplicity and complain about the wound mechanic, even though the wound mechanic is perfectly fine. Hint: they're complaining about added complexity.

Well...there was a long period in which all you did was spam howling blast and frost strike...Now Killing Machine is a completely boring mechanic..oh okay cool..auto crit on my obliterate...I miss having the choice of HB/FS or even FS/OB....there's just nothing interesting about frost...they need to change killing machine...it's gotten progressively worse every expansion.....It's sad that I'd rather go back in time to a point that it felt good to get a KM proc then what it is now where it doesn't matter that it proc'd...that's what I mean by boring.

There used to be some form of skill gap of Frost and you could tell the difference between good and great frost DKs...now not so much.

[Raiz]

Well...there was a long period in which all you did was spam howling blast and frost strike...Now Killing Machine is a completely boring mechanic..oh okay cool..auto crit on my obliterate...I miss having the choice of HB/FS or even FS/OB....there's just nothing interesting about frost...they need to change killing machine...it's gotten progressively worse every expansion.....It's sad that I'd rather go back in time to a point that it felt good to get a KM proc then what it is now where it doesn't matter that it proc'd...that's what I mean by boring.

There used to be some form of skill gap of Frost and you could tell the difference between good and great frost DKs...now not so much.

Seriously man, why are you still playing DK or even reading this forum ? You've been complaining about Frost dk ever since Legion came out (?) It gets tiresome you know...
And most importantly about that bolded part, why do you care so much about a distinction between good and great frost DKs ? You're doing it wrong. You're not playing WoW to have fun. You just want to play the game just for the sake of doing better than everyone. You're not doing WoW a service by stomping on every other DKs. In a sense, if you continue to have to mindset, then blizzard did the right thing by making this game more simple than before.

It's no wonder why the DK's community is toxic right now.

[Coughee]

Seriously man, why are you still playing DK or even reading this forum ? You've been complaining about Frost dk ever since Legion came out (?) It gets tiresome you know...
And most importantly about that bolded part, why do you care so much about a distinction between good and great frost DKs ? You're doing it wrong. You're not playing WoW to have fun. You just want to play the game just for the sake of doing better than everyone. You're not doing WoW a service by stomping on every other DKs. In a sense, if you continue to have to mindset, then blizzard did the right thing by making this game more simple than before.

It's no wonder why the DK's community is toxic right now.

It is extremely hard for me to agree with your second part, while you certaintly are entilted to your opinion, it doesn't change the fact that some people play the game strictly for the sake of performing better than others. Yes the game is meant to be fun, but that feeling of being better at your class than others is a different reward in itself. There are times where I relentlessly grinded to hit Gladiator and I'd get really frustrated at losing to a mirror comp where the other DK is performing better than me... Some of us play only for PvP to satisfy that competitive drive in us. When I was permanently removed from sports due to severe injuries, I needed to compete elsewhere, WoW pvp was the perfect environment for me and while there are times it wasn't fun, the rewards and lessons I learned from constantly working harder and understanding the class better through better players was the best part. By no means am I Gladiator or rank 1 caliber player, but knowing that I face them frequently in matches because I'm playing at that level feels a lot better than facing Challenger level players while only playing for fun. Bottom line is, there's more than one way of having fun in this game, and some people have fun by striving to be better than others at their class.

[RuneDK]

Seriously man, why are you still playing DK or even reading this forum ? You've been complaining about Frost dk ever since Legion came out (?) It gets tiresome you know...
And most importantly about that bolded part, why do you care so much about a distinction between good and great frost DKs ? You're doing it wrong. You're not playing WoW to have fun. You just want to play the game just for the sake of doing better than everyone. You're not doing WoW a service by stomping on every other DKs. In a sense, if you continue to have to mindset, then blizzard did the right thing by making this game more simple than before.

It's no wonder why the DK's community is toxic right now.

You do realize there's an ignore function right? If you're tired of hearing me bring up the shortcomings of the spec that have been ultimately around since Cataclysm then feel free to use the ignore function on me. I'm sorry that I don't white knight it and turn a blind eye to a class and spec that I personally loved to play. And for the record I have benched my DK until they give Frost a proper rework. Doesn't mean I won't voice my opinion on the state of the spec/class when I feel like it...and again if you don't like it feel free to ignore.

Lastly, fun is subjective to the person playing. I like to see where I rank in the world of Frost DKs or whatever spec I play...that is what makes farming shitty content fun to me. You don't have to think that's fun and that's fine. I do and that's also fine. Next time you see my post and you don't like it, just fucking move on. You've said plenty of shit I haven't agreed with and I never feel the need to respond..you should try that sometime

[Heph47]

People confuse me here, fondly remembering WOTLK Frost - spamming Howling Blast, which made whether you wield 1/2 H irrelevant. It was boring and terrible

[wanax]

You do realize there's an ignore function right? If you're tired of hearing me bring up the shortcomings of the spec that have been ultimately around since Cataclysm then feel free to use the ignore function on me. I'm sorry that I don't white knight it and turn a blind eye to a class and spec that I personally loved to play. And for the record I have benched my DK until they give Frost a proper rework. Doesn't mean I won't voice my opinion on the state of the spec/class when I feel like it...and again if you don't like it feel free to ignore.

Lastly, fun is subjective to the person playing. I like to see where I rank in the world of Frost DKs or whatever spec I play...that is what makes farming shitty content fun to me. You don't have to think that's fun and that's fine. I do and that's also fine. Next time you see my post and you don't like it, just fucking move on. You've said plenty of shit I haven't agreed with and I never feel the need to respond..you should try that sometime

There have definitely been points where frost felt and WAS much better. The Legion artifact added some cool flares but they’ve been made into talents, abilities or are just gone. Now don’t get me wrong MoP or WoD frost probably get better, they all kinda blur together. I feel like BoS is a stupid boring mechanic and I hate that it’s practicaly maditory. I miss KM procs that hit like a truck wether with 1/2h but I understand that change for balancing(I started as a fury War in late vanilla and it killed me when they moved it fully to TG.)

It’s not a matter of hating DK or not playing DK it’s a matter of knowing that you can keep up or surpass players in raids better geared than you(DK or not). Oor sometimes you get your shit kicked in pvp because you messed up and get out played. There’s no fun in not being a little competitive about it.

[Adlian]

Frost and Unholy need a big overhaul, both speccs play really slow and boring. Ill be taking a break from the game if Blizzard force me to play BoS Frost build again. As for Unholy... its not as bad as frost but there are mechanics that really annoys me. 90lvl talent roll needs a complete rework, wound mechanic is so dumb when it comes to switching targets. FS should be 1 rune.

[Zeernial]

People confuse me here, fondly remembering WOTLK Frost - spamming Howling Blast, which made whether you wield 1/2 H irrelevant. It was boring and terrible

Dude I played wotlk frost not so long ago.
It is not howling blast spam, maybe you are the confused one.

[Greengrim]

Frost DK was never meant to be a PVP spec. Frost in wrath was a thinking man's spec all the way until mid Cata. people complained then there was "Blood of the north" and its been a spamfest ever since. I do think they should have a choice between 2h and DW. I'd love to see a dw unholy.... sick shit.

No specs in the game were ever meant to specifically fulfill a PvP role. As a matter of fact, WoW didn't even initially have PvP, so the whole game was not meant to have such aspect. Anyway, Frost in WotLK was one of the three specs in which you could tank/dps/pvp as a DK. And as far as I can remember DW or 2H was also a freedom of choice for all 3 specs, with some talents even fulfilling different traits based on what you wield. These among many others were ultimate charms for the DKs, but were lost with time, due to the disgusting amounts of homogenization we have seen throughout the years. Sadly, I don't think Blizzard care anymore for the quality of the game, as much as they care to deplete the remaining bits in the goldmine that WoW turned out to be, so they just do stupid stuff without thinking them through. This applies to both the gameplay and storyline.

And as for the topic of the thread, frost has much more problems than OB's dmg. Starting from the fact that PoF, HoW and RE were placed on GCD, and going through the fact that GCD was increased. Combined with the total of 5 buttons which you have (2 being on longer cd), and here you have it - a boring as f*ck spec with only 3 buttons which you occasionally press, but still feel like a complete retard due to the ridiculous amount of time you are forced to watch that endless GCD spin, before you can press your next (out of 3) buttons. You may also throw in the ridiculous mechanic of BoS if you want more color.