Would you raid/dungeon without TF/WF

[MisterBigglez]

In my case, it was dull for me to continue raiding because other people need gear and I don't. This way, I can continue raiding and always hoping for a bonus. I don't necessarily need it because I can kill bosses even without it but I like striving for better. For tops of the tops on warcraft logs.

Team player right there.

Also, logs have just become even more pointless considering half the time you are required to cheese the fuck out of the encounter and titanforging just makes it so you have to be super lucky to be at the top. It's not a fair game anymore when billy gets all the titanforges and tommy doesn't get any.

[Kumorii]

Ofc

Tenten

[hulkgor]

Yes.

I raid, and also run high Mythic+ for the challenge and fun, not the loot. The absence of TF\WF would have no impact whatsoever. Hell, i was running Challenge Modes constantly even after unlocking the rewards.

[Sapphire35]

Absolutely, I did it for years. Honestly I think Blizzard's whole philosophy behind the game now, is to keep you playing, not to keep you having fun. Between AP farming, and spamming M+ for TF trinkets, it's just not fun and is a big reason why I'm considering quitting. If I don't think the systems in 8.2 look any better it may be for a while.

Genuinely asking: May I ask how you think that logic works if true? If the goal is to keep us playing should that not require us to be having fun? Killing the fun in favor of a frustrating grind seems counterintuitive to keeping me playing. I would think Blizzard *wants* their game to be fun so people keep playing.

[Hubbl3]

Getting BiS and then aiming for rankings was the reason to raid on farm, now its just a chore to get ready for next raid which is why I'm not doing it at all.

"Being done" with a raid in the sense that you got all your BIS gear was a great feeling back in the day.

[cparle87]

Absolutely, I did it for years. Honestly I think Blizzard's whole philosophy behind the game now, is to keep you playing, not to keep you having fun. Between AP farming, and spamming M+ for TF trinkets, it's just not fun and is a big reason why I'm considering quitting. If I don't think the systems in 8.2 look any better it may be for a while.

I've never understood the concept of "farming" for AP. And by farming, I mean it is the context I see most commonly on the forums: of forcing yourself to do content you don't enjoy doing in order to get more of it sooner. MoS runs in Legion were a prime example. I don't farm. I do the content I enjoy, which is mostly WQs. I've done fewer than 20 dungeons, fewer than 5 M+s, and no raids or BGs this entire expansion, and I have a neck level of 43, which if I'm not mistaken is more than you need for the final ring of current azerite gear. As a druid, I had 4 artifacts to level in Legion, and I had all of them capped with the +20 trait before they changed things. And I got it by doing things I like. Forcing yourself to do things you hate, especially when you don't need to, feels like people are self-tormenting themselves over a lie.

[oplawlz]

Absolutely, I did it for years. Honestly I think Blizzard's whole philosophy behind the game now, is to keep you playing, not to keep you having fun. Between AP farming, and spamming M+ for TF trinkets, it's just not fun and is a big reason why I'm considering quitting. If I don't think the systems in 8.2 look any better it may be for a while.

Yup. I used to read with scorn the people who talked about just subbing the last patch of an expansion for the catch ups and to see all the content. Now they've removed goals and made everything an endless grind so I just don't bother. I'll resub for the last patch, enjoy taking a couple of days to catch up in gear and a week or two to see all the content(including flying) , then move on.

[Shadowsgrace]

WF/TF is bloody Cancer designed to artificially extend the life of content with the "Carrot on a stick" method of "you never know it might..." I remember Fury Warriors have to still run weekly Mythic Nighthold, just trying to get a better Convergence of Fates off of Grand Magistrix Elisande all through Tomb of Sargeras, and even into Antorus. And what's this, Fury Warriors still have to farm Mythic Vectis in Uldir for a BiS Syringe of Bloodborne Infirmity, because... hey you never know.

[Poppincaps]

Genuinely asking: May I ask how you think that logic works if true? If the goal is to keep us playing should that not require us to be having fun? Killing the fun in favor of a frustrating grind seems counterintuitive to keeping me playing. I would think Blizzard *wants* their game to be fun so people keep playing.

Do you find World Quests fun? Most people don't, but they do them because they help them achieve a goal. Some people (not myself) don't like leveling, but they do it for the reward, which is having a new alt to play with. The game isn't about fun anymore, it's about the reward at the end. Which is... problematic, but mostly okay, except now once you achieve the reward, Blizzard moves the goal posts and now you have to grind again. Eventually you get tired of the grind and realize the rewards are temporary (far more temporary than they were in the past) and you realize that the game itself isn't fun. At least not as fun as a lot of other games I could be playing instead.

Hopefully Blizzard addresses this in 8.2, but as for now unless 8.1.5 can hold my attention beyond a week, I definitely see myself unsubbing until 8.2 or possibly later if the changes don't seem promising.

[munkeyinorbit]

Hey everybody, at first I am not discussing if is titanforging and warforging good or bad, it's cons and pros..

Just imagine days in older xpacks like Wrath of the Lich King, you had specific ilvl gear from raid/dungeon. I played WotLK on private server, where one content/raid was like one year, whole xpack took like 5 years. I collected gear in few months and after that I raided just for fun with guild and enjoyed the raid and bosses.

Will you continue with raiding and doing dungeons if you collected all bis items without any chance for upgrade due to nonexisted TF/WF? Or you will just collect best gear and end raiding until next raid?

4 days ago I leveled my blood DK, now I am at 396 ilvl after normal/hc BoD and 1st boss myth, all dungeons myth 0, and few pluses. Now I can get 400 from 10+ myth dungeons and BoD HC and I am done, but I am "forced" to continue due to chance for TF. So you are always in state with posible upgrade with low chance, but there is a chance.

Let me know, if you lose motivation for doing content if TF/WF isn't a thing.

You are not forced to do anything. You're only 4 days old and it sounds like you are bored with the content. Maybe it's time to quit.

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No you don't. You do not have to do anything you do not want to. That trinket is not essential. This is the problem with newer players, they fall into the trap of thinking an item will make them better players when actually getting better at the mechanics will give them a far greater boost in their performance.

[Marrilaife]

Would probably do the same as I always did pre tf era.
- Raid every week with the guild because: guild needs to raid so people don't lose touch with the guild and the content, some other guildies might still need loot like trinkets and it's a dick move to be like "oh I got mine fuck you now I'm taking a break" (unfortunately typical pug tainted mentality in post wod post group finder wow), raids often have mounts and again I care so everyone gets them and it takes frigging months because Blizzard loves chaining mythic raiders down for 5 months while all the casuals whine about "no content"
- Play more alts when their gearing is more straight forward (and no "must farm 50k ap 200 per quest before you can use your gear" bullshit)
- Do enough dungeons for weekly / quests / events and don't feel compelled to grind them until burnout (was worst in legion with leggos / ap the amount of old outdated crap you had to farm like m0s or low difficulty raids)

It was much better when the game was designed to play as much as you wanted instead of as much as they and their shareholders wanted, which leads to burn outs and people quitting because "wow became too time consuming".

I hate people like Bornakk who go to people who say wow is too time consuming and tell them "but but did you never run into an issue there's not enough stuff to do in wow?" How about you don't try to hold people hostage and give them "stuff to do" for the sake of "stuff to do" assuming everyone is a nolifer and needs to have enough grind to sit on their main 20h+ a week. Some people would like to play alts or you know... other games than wow. What a blasphemy, right?

[Gasparde]

At the point where my character had undeniable BiS... I'd just log to my alt and start gearing that character.
I'd love to be able to finish characters instead of having to keep playing them because you never know if there's not gonna be that fucking 425 socketed Galecaller in your next m+ chest...

[Raelbo]

If you really enjoyed raiding then you could do it without loot at all, so why have loot in the game?

Dude, honestly? I am finding it difficult to believe that this is a sincere question....

Getting loot upgrades is a nice feeling. Just because I can enjoy raiding without loot doesn't mean I won't enjoy it more with loot. So the fact that can enjoy it without is a really, really stupid reason to remove loot from the equation.

Loot upgrades from doing content is a bit like adding your favourite condiments to your food. That burger will still be nice even served plain, but adding the slice of cheese and bacon, some fried onions, a touch of salt and ketchup make it even better.

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Yes, I am not forced, but I feel forced inside, there is a possibility for upgrade so I have to run that raid.

That's not the game's fault. It's entirely about something that you have control over and how you're choosing to respond to the way the game works.

But I would like to xpack slowed down, just give me more time to enjoy it. I am heroic raider, we don't have enought active players for stable myth group (raid), but I would welcome to have more time to try it. Now I feel like "Yea, we finally and slowly beated heroic, now slowly to myth, but f*ck new raids incoming in few weeks".

I won't disagree with you there. It feels like we're barely into BoD and already there's a another raid on the horizon. Mind you, Crucible of Storms is only a 2 boss raid, so I guess it's more like a Trial of Valor type raid and doesn't affect the schedule for BoD or things like a Cutting Edge and Ahead of the Curve.

[Chillside]

YES, with much more enthusiasm.

fuck titanforging and if you think that titanforging is fine - fuck you too

[Aphrel]

Id definetly run less. Id still try to push higher keys thou for the challenge alone. But im happy titanforging is there, every once in a while you find a suprise upgrade.

[Chillside]

But im happy titanforging is there

You literally spam a single specific dungeon few times a day untill you throw up, because that one item is literally the one way you can fix your scuffed secondary stats with and after 2 weeks of "farming" it finally drops.. but then you're thinking "oh yay finally... b.. but what, it could have been 25 ilvls higher, with the gem slot in it"

I would ignore most people, but considering the fact that your join date says 2008 i really don't know what an actual fuck is wrong with you

[Jowany]

Absolutely. I would feel much more motivated to do raids and dungeons if I felt that BiS was obtainable. I'd also note that farming M+ beyond the weekly chest for titanforges has never been a lucrative way to gear up. In Legion, it was more about farming AP with the small chance of gear. Now it's just a fool's game.

It would be good if Blizzard add some cosmetic/challange rewards for running high m+ or good time of run to motivate players play the dungeon instead of one run per week.

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You are not forced to do anything. You're only 4 days old and it sounds like you are bored with the content. Maybe it's time to quit.

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No you don't. You do not have to do anything you do not want to. That trinket is not essential. This is the problem with newer players, they fall into the trap of thinking an item will make them better players when actually getting better at the mechanics will give them a far greater boost in their performance.

I am not new in game, I joined retail at end of WoD. My DK is my 3rd toon, I just came back after 2-3 months pause and I leveled it and with friend ran some m+ and raid and with gear I beated like half of my guild mates who actively run raids every week.

I want run myths and raids, but I want to see my finishing line, where I know I am done with gearing and I can slow down and chill, run some old raids, do achievements, do my legion class hall campain, try collect some nice mogs. With TF/WF you have feeling, you aren't good enought, because you can get upgrade.

[Aphrel]

You literally spam a single specific dungeon few times a day untill you throw up, because that one item is literally the one way you can fix your scuffed secondary stats with and after 2 weeks of "farming" it finally drops.. but then you're thinking "oh yay finally... b.. but what, it could have been 25 ilvls higher, with the gem slot in it"

I would ignore most people, but considering the fact that your join date says 2008 i really don't know what an actual fuck is wrong with you

It sounds like your not really enjoy playing the game tbh.

Im obviously not targetfarming a specific titanforged trinket. That is way to many layers of rng for me to be arsed. Nor is it needed tbh, if i have the item i want at ilvl 400, getting it at 405 or higher isnt going to make or break my spec.

But if the choice is to either know with 100% certanty that my 405alt cannot get a single upgrade in any m+ dungeon or with the current system occasionaly get a upgrade even on my main even thou its rare i think i prefer the latter.

But tbh neither would really change the way i play the game in any meaningful way. I farm until i got ilvl400 of all items i want, anything above that is a bonus. If your starting out with the mentality that 425trinkets with a socket is the "goal". Then your gonna be dissapointed.

[Eazy]

WF/TF are stupid.

[Chillside]

It sounds like your not really enjoy playing the game tbh.

Im obviously not targetfarming a specific titanforged trinket. That is way to many layers of rng for me to be arsed. Nor is it needed tbh, if i have the item i want at ilvl 400, getting it at 405 or higher isnt going to make or break my spec.

But if the choice is to either know with 100% certanty that my 405alt cannot get a single upgrade in any m+ dungeon or with the current system occasionaly get a upgrade even on my main even thou its rare i think i prefer the latter.

But tbh neither would really change the way i play the game in any meaningful way. I farm until i got ilvl400 of all items i want, anything above that is a bonus. If your starting out with the mentality that 425trinkets with a socket is the "goal". Then your gonna be dissapointed.

I have a main character that i raid with, i don't try to gear up my alts, just use them for professions. I'm trying to get best gear possible to make progression process relatively easier, let me tell you something, any system that rewards a player based on how lucky he is, is a shit and not thought-through system, why would a particular item exist if there is absolutely no way for anybody of obtaining that item regardless of how hard they try, literally, UNLESS they get lucky
Ofcourse i don't enjoy the game, how can anybody who's not super-casual enjoy titanforging

Like, go ahead check my armory, you can see couple of titanforged m+ items that i literally had to farm untill i threw up, but guess what. they COULD BE 10 ilvls higher with a gem slot, absolutely disgusting. If anything makes me quit this game for the second time ( and for good ) it's titanforging