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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, it most definitely was not. The game has continuously become less grindy since Vanilla.
    What did you have to grind in Vanilla? I cleared up to AQ40 and never had to grind anything except the furbolg reputation for a specific weapon enchant. But you just needed one person in the guild to have it.

  2. #302
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    What did you have to grind in Vanilla? I cleared up to AQ40 and never had to grind anything except the furbolg reputation for a specific weapon enchant. But you just needed one person in the guild to have it.
    Uh how about raids that you had to do 50 times to get 5 pieces of loot.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    I think a loss of 80% customers in the past what? 6-7 years would disagree with your "noisy minority" theory.

    For me the past 3 WoW expansions, but especially the two latest, have failed to give me a sense of acomplishment and/or a rewarding feeling. In Legion when you got a Legebdary item out from nowhere it wasn’t rewarding, hell most of the time it was a massive disappointment because they were poorly designed and/or balanced. To make it worse if you got two early on you were "locked" from getting any more, so if you got two bad ones (which was higher chance than getting two good ones) you were screwed as far as min/maxing goes. If you look at Legions Artifact Weapons, yes very "bling cool" but grinding for days to get 1% damage increase on one of your abilities? How was that ever going to be satisfying? This is just two of the major problems that Legion had... thee were more!
    BfA stepped into the same errors as Legion exceot now Legendary drops were replaced with a combination of forced personal loot and Azerite Armor.

    I guess I’m old school, I prefer having objectives that I can dedicate time towards and know that my BiS or strong upgrade waits at the other end. I hate randomness, it’s fun in small doses but when everything is RNG on top of RNG and you have zero ways to opt out of it or save up your RNG for a guaranteed reward you can work towards then it’s just annoying.
    Take bonus roll tokens and weekly mythic chests. On average you get 1 item from the raid tier every 3-4 coins, why couldn’t you opt to not take part of the RNG and use the coins at a (more expensive, less item efficient) gear vendor and pick items you wanted? Why couldn’t you opt to use those coins to upgrade the ilvl of items you already have. From the Weekly Mythic chest you could chose to take the random item or tokens you could use at the item vendor or upgrade items you already got.
    Don’t even get me started on Titanforging!
    and once again statistics pulled out of ones ass.

    just because he doesnt like game ofc that 80% of players dont like it either.

    only thing is that financial numbers are suggesting something exacly opposite - with BfA hitting all time high profits.

  4. #304
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pu3Ho View Post
    You did read the truth, lvling 1-60 @Vanilla is literally 5-7 days /played at most unless u're doing all the quest chains in the game aka travel from winterspring to booty bay, after that you go into dungeons/MC lvl proffs(you can do it while you lvl tho) and thats it. Now count all the /played you have to endlessly grind AP @Mythic+ or elsewhere @Legion/BFA.
    You don't have to 'endlessly' grind anything, I do like three dungeons a week and I'm 395. I've only joined a raid one time.

  5. #305
    you cant improve something by making it worse LOL

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    You don't have to 'endlessly' grind anything, I do like three dungeons a week and I'm 395. I've only joined a raid one time.
    Yeah, since u're 395 u are obviously a good player especially when everyone in their mother is 410+ /s, so u aren't doing anything in the game and complaining about grind? Well u can also not do anything @Classic and hit 60 in like 2-3 months or so how they say "enjoy the journey".

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by ludihokuji View Post
    With the constant discussions that WoW is reducing in quality, why don't the devs start listening to the players? Wouldn't it be beneficial for them if they do what the players want and in return they would have more subs, which should mean more money?
    It's funny, because I think that what lead to WoW becoming bad is precisely that they did listen too much to the players, designing through formula instead of designing through good ideas.
    Feedback is a pretty difficult thing to manage, because often people themselves have trouble to define their needs and wants - in fact, any project manager will tell you that the very first thing before starting anything is to discuss with a client and refine the actual needs well beyond what the guy says he wants.

    Design by commitee is bad. Feedback is crucial to know how your product is received, but it's about "feels" first, and is often not reliable when it comes to details and implementations. Of course, many people ARE able to know precisely what they want and why, but many are confusing lots of issue and drawing wrong conclusions ("you think you do, but you don't" was a very bad line, but it draws its idea from something which is actually true).

    No great game was made by polls. Great games are made by someone who has a vision and bring people in it.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    Uh how about raids that you had to do 50 times to get 5 pieces of loot.
    You consider raid loots as a grind? lol

  9. #309
    Herald of the Titans Ratyrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    I guess I’m old school, I prefer having objectives that I can dedicate time towards and know that my BiS or strong upgrade waits at the other end. I hate randomness, it’s fun in small doses but when everything is RNG on top of RNG and you have zero ways to opt out of it or save up your RNG for a guaranteed reward you can work towards then it’s just annoying.
    Take bonus roll tokens and weekly mythic chests. On average you get 1 item from the raid tier every 3-4 coins, why couldn’t you opt to not take part of the RNG and use the coins at a (more expensive, less item efficient) gear vendor and pick items you wanted? Why couldn’t you opt to use those coins to upgrade the ilvl of items you already have. From the Weekly Mythic chest you could chose to take the random item or tokens you could use at the item vendor or upgrade items you already got.
    Don’t even get me started on Titanforging!
    I think this is a common, but false argument. Such objectives have never existed outside of the reputation and badge system, which BfA either had or has reintroduced, without it making any sort of improvement to the feel of the game. These kinds of suggestions don't solve the problem that WoW has become disenchanted. Everything is datamined, every mechanic laid bare and optimised. RNG is not exciting, but a cascade of hollow, boring numbers. Social bonding has for the most part been replaced with out of game resources and the mandate of mechanical efficiency and maximisation. Adding another 100 mounts or pets, as well as adding massive amounts of notional content and replayability through randomisation are just responses to this problem. The only way WoW could really "improve" is to prevent all this power gaming, return to uncertainty and warp the internet back to 2004. The Dev team is doing fine imo given these challenges.

  10. #310
    Well, to me, the game no longer has a soul. With all these catch up mechanics, all the time end effort I put into a single character, becomes irrelevant. Alchemy is only used for flask (sta, int, agi, str) and Transmute. Blacksmithing is only used the first couple of weeks with crafted items / epics. Professions is kinda useless, only for gold making. Spirit and Mp5 is none existing. There is no reason to bring all classes. with heirloom there is no need for quest items at all. EVERYTHING is just a straight line. all those mechanics that gave the game a little soul (In my opinion) is being taken away. Atm. this game is like driving on the Highway, everything is straight foward, you do not pay attention to your surroundings, ofcause you make sure you not to hit anyone. Sometimes you'll see a nice sports car, or something amusing. The Sports car part doesn't apply to WoW, with all the catch up mechanincs.

    1. What I'd do, is slowly close / shutdown servers or Merge them.
    2. Get rid off cross realm options.
    3. make deals for servers with low population.
    4. Instead of TitanForging or Warforged, let each Final boss in a raid have a legendary single item with 0.5-1% drop chance.¨
    5. Increase Ilvl with 5-10 Ilvls each raid, nothing else
    6. Give each class something unique, like Shamans Fire totem also applies a buff like, increased armor, just like vanilla. Make the class relevant, so people bring all the classes.
    7. Professions should give an advantage.
    8. increase diffculty for leveling, increase dmg and health for mobs, exp required for levels, so people like Gingi doesn't reach max lvl withing 6 hours.
    It should be impossible to solo a group quest. force people to actually meet and seek help from the community and guildies
    9. NO CATCH UP MECHANICS
    10. Heirloom gear should be a buff you applied to your gear.
    11. Class quest: kill a specific raidboss and it'll drop a SINGLE tome, it starts a long hard quest, which in the end, change the colour and animation of your attack / spell and increase the dmg with 5-10%. (You have learned a new technique which lets you increase the heat in your fireballs which makes the ball turn blue and increase dmg from 1500 to 1750.
    12. 2nd talent tree: increase the dmg of fireball with 0,5% [0/5]
    13. update effects: Fire mage: The victims of your fire spell now turn to crisp upon death. Warlock: The victims of your affliction spells now appears to have been very sick upon death (makes the enemy look very ill, as if their life had been drained). Warriors Paladins Deathknights victims leaves a bloody pool (optional) and if being critted upon death their bodies will be thrown upon impact. or turn to dust as if they had been smited by a god (only incase of extreme one shots,can be applied to every mob and boss incase they take 200% dmg of health, in a single hit.
    14. make more support related specs (optional: you want to be 100% dmg og 90% dmg 10% buff.), boomkin with a lil less dmg. but stronger buffs for raid entire raid. Shaman with tanking spec etc.
    15. Items that change your appearance / applies an effect.
    16. Item sets.
    17. During Blizzcon a special edition of raid will take place. Battle for Dazalor 40man. 2 teams will compete for 2 hours tops.
    18. During the siege of Lordareon, I had expected waymore npcs. make it optional before you join a fight how many npcs you want : low, medium, high or guranteed lag.)
    19. Get rid of personal loot and decrease the amount of loot you'll receive per boss fight.
    20. Pray to RNG-Sus: 3 weeks cooldown, upon completion of a boss fight, you can now choose a single item from the loot table (Item, mount or tome) and your wish will be granted (doesn't apply to legendaries and Old raids can only be choosed every 2nd month.)
    21. new version of dungeons (Normal, Heroic, Mythic, Mythic+ and 10man)
    22. New crafted Item! Turns the caster into a rock, can not be killed until spell is removed (perfect for ganking) Engineering: turns caster into a solid Iceblock, not even Jaina can despell you.
    23. Earn reputation with your favorit barber! once you reach exalted you'll unlock quests (SOLO ONLY), which in the end, will let your barber learn new hair styles, tatoos, skin alteration, and even eye colour changes! It appears your Barber can copy the looks of a High elf, aslong as you're either blood elf or Void elf, and even wildhammer / frost hammer looks..
    24. Player / guild housing: lets you display some of your greatest achievements. House hold: maid, butler and even cook can be unlocked. but they got wages.
    25. Player Housing - Mine - Farm - etc: Price 10million Gold lets your guildies harvest and craft x amount of: food, flasks, ores, and scrolls. (can Only be consumed by members of the guild) MUST BE ATTENDED BY GUILD MEMBERS.

  11. #311
    Honestly i think that wow suffers the most when blizzard tries new ideas to replace older systems without enough testing, or without listening to the feedback.
    another thing is when they try to modernize their game by making it more streamlined. But at the cost of systems that does the job just as well.

    there's a lot of unnecessary changes that they refuse to go back on, even when the community tells them that its garbage-

    There's a lot of things i think have made the game worse, but its not like they haven't also included good changes over the years. The latest community outcry is mostly as a result from the Core systems of BFA having a rough start (azerite) or being dead at arrival (Warfronts) with the latter being way too rewarding for little to no effort.

    To end on a positive note, a few changes I personally think made the game BETTER -
    Transmogrification
    Reduction of Currencies (alltough they went a bit too extreme here)
    World quests replacing Dailies
    Paragon reputations
    Prestige levels
    Mythic+ being a rewarding way of progress through dungeon content
    Pet battle content with new meta achievements, new dungeons and new challenges.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    Spread to thin
    There is to many type of content and supported playstyles that needs to be improved and keept up to date. Results in everything being avarage

    - - - Updated - - -




    Prime example, degrading the game and fucking it up to cater to people that dont even want play their game but still feel entitled.

    While not everything gone to shitter is because of that alot of things are.
    Look at you making crap up, where in my post have i ever said im entitled to anything? I don't raid mythic plus and don't expect my ilvl to match any of those guys. I'm happy to play in the casual pool i play in. Cause like i said i play other games.

    I've supported WoW since its release and will continue to support the game until I feel its no longer worth my time or money and that time hasnt come yet. WoW wasn't my first MMO, I started with Realm Online, then Ultima Online (My fav mmo of all time), then Star Wars Galaxies before WoW launched and it was my most anticipated upcoming MMO looknig back at PC Gamer magazines knowing this game was gonna be a hit and it was.

    its actually people like you who are toxic cause you sound like all you do is play WoW and have no life outside of the game. WoW becoming more casual is cause Blizzard knows the true fans who were there at launch are now 15 YEARS OLDER so Actual fans of the game have grown up got kids and responsibilities. You're not the audience they want to cater to so get over it.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicFever View Post
    9. NO CATCH UP MECHANICS
    The rest is just trolling but this annoys me.

    I had a break, because "real life" and i want to go back to play with my friends, if there are no catch up mechanics, what's your solution ? Did you play vanilla wow ? Naxxramas was current content, ppl were clearing mc/bwl/aq just to gear up new members for first few bosses in Naxx, and if someone was tired of that or geared enough just applied to a guild with better progress, on low/medium pop realms there were guilds stealing players from each other, that sucked.

  14. #314
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    You consider raid loots as a grind? lol
    Yes because the raids where so fucking bad every boss and raid was the same. But have fun in vanilla.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pu3Ho View Post
    Yeah, since u're 395 u are obviously a good player especially when everyone in their mother is 410+ /s, so u aren't doing anything in the game and complaining about grind? Well u can also not do anything @Classic and hit 60 in like 2-3 months or so how they say "enjoy the journey".
    Nah you're wrong, people who are 410 play quite abit and that's their choice. Nobody's forcing you to go for 410. Besides, the content is a billion times more entertaining now than in 2005.
    Last edited by CptEgo; 2019-03-11 at 11:46 AM.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    Yes because the raids where so fucking bad every boss and raid was the same. But have fun in vanilla.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Nah you're wrong, people who are 410 play quite abit and that's their choice. Nobody's forcing you to go for 410.
    Kinda?

    It might be not be the case now that there are so many time filler grinds but raiding and full clearing used to take 6 hours a week.

    WoW for me just added to much bullshit to time gate the fun parts of the game to make terrible players feel like they are progressing.

  16. #316
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Tim View Post
    Kinda?

    It might be not be the case now that there are so many time filler grinds but raiding and full clearing used to take 6 hours a week.

    WoW for me just added to much bullshit to time gate the fun parts of the game to make terrible players feel like they are progressing.
    Yea well, 'terrible players' are like 90% of the player base so that won't change.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    Yea well, 'terrible players' are like 90% of the player base so that won't change.
    They are now with the game in full blow decline. Wasn't that way in tbc and even wrath. Once you cater to the worst all you get is the worst. The problem is once all you have is them they quit on mass since even terrible players dont want to play with terrible players.

    A parasite needs a host to survive.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Pu3Ho View Post
    You did read the truth, lvling 1-60 @Vanilla is literally 5-7 days /played at most unless u're doing all the quest chains in the game aka travel from winterspring to booty bay, after that you go into dungeons/MC lvl proffs(you can do it while you lvl tho) and thats it. Now count all the /played you have to endlessly grind AP @Mythic+ or elsewhere @Legion/BFA.
    The only way you could have done that is by grinding.

    As for the AP... that's 0. Grinding AP is a complete waste of time. Grinding AP through M+ is idiocy.

    In Vanilla, things like Timbermaw had to be ground because that was the only way of doing them.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Tim View Post
    They are now with the game in full blow decline. Wasn't that way in tbc and even wrath. Once you cater to the worst all you get is the worst. The problem is once all you have is them they quit on mass since even terrible players dont want to play with terrible players.

    A parasite needs a host to survive.
    That's EXACTLY what i've said years ago, thou i explained it in different words and projected onto WoW : It's literally goes like that : You cater to casuals/baddies casualificate everything = Good and Passionate players loose interest in the game cuz it starts to feel like shit and quit.

    Then some time passes and even those casuals and baddies start to loose interest cuz game holds your hand to the point it's not even fun to play anymore EVEN FOR THEM and also there's no one to carry them onto stuff anymore.
    Last edited by Pu3Ho; 2019-03-11 at 12:14 PM.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Tim View Post
    They are now with the game in full blow decline. Wasn't that way in tbc and even wrath. Once you cater to the worst all you get is the worst. The problem is once all you have is them they quit on mass since even terrible players dont want to play with terrible players.

    A parasite needs a host to survive.
    You wish. The vast majority of players has always been barely adequate at the very best. It's just that back in vanilla you could finish a raid with half the group practically asleep. In their bed. While the computer the game is running on is in a different room.

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