Warbringers Jaina: trying to rewrite events of the past

[ausoin]

Oh, yes, it was all the same, extremely stable, with all natural needs met, so steady growth would have happened. Even a very low birthrate would've stacked up when everyone is immortal and no one dies to attrition.



I think you're really misreading the situation. Vol'jin flat out admits to the Alliance PC that he can't win or hold out without their assistance when prompted, and so enlists their aid in keeping him up. Vol'jin was maintained by proxy forces throughout. We see what happens when he doesn't have them immediately before when, as said, his home is effectively suppressed by a single group of Kor'kron. In terms of controlling the Barrens, they were contested in 5.3, and 5.4 isn't a case of conquest, it's Garrosh deliberately withdrawing to Orgrimmar. He flat out says he's counting on it.

But in any case, this is a weird argument, because spearheading one campaign where they needed foreign aid and visibly couldn't succeed on their own is nothing compared to the near constant human involvement. Which is par for the course for a second tier race.



What I'm saying is that we have no evidence suggesting that elves have a massively lower birth rate, and even if they did it would be an irrelevant argument given that the night elves went through less in WC3 than Stormwind did in the stretch between the Gnoll War, the Gurubashi War and the First War, all near defeats except the last which got them sacked and slaughtered. On top of this, we know that elves mature at the same speed as humans up to 20 from Edge of Night.



Humans being everywhere, much like orcs being everywhere, is not the problem. It's that the orcs are shown as requiring allied support, suffer relevant losses, have had their cast slaughtered over and over again and are in a faction with races who also have low population numbers. The human hegemony is nonsensical in all regards, from their numbers relative to more populous races to their performance, i.e superior to other races in all regards.

Steady growth that was limited to one city ,and when the Legion came it undone much of that.

The topic of trolls all comes down to the point they shouldnt have the numbers for campgains such as the rebellion since they are lorewise a small tribe who were almost destroyed by the murlocs. They should be lower in number then the High elves. I mean if there was an Alliance civil war can you imagine high elves leading the charge in Elwyn forest and Westfall and being the first to arrive and attack the gates of Stormwind?

According to Veressa her having twins is a miracle for a elf, and that elves dont have many children, now whether that is because they dont want to or simply cant is a another story. If they had the same birth rates as humans the world would have gotten overpopulated real soon.

Most humans are not superior warriors or mages or better at stealth, only a select few humans excelled at something. Never was a common human soldier or mage presented as superior.

[Super Dickmann]

Steady growth that was limited to one city ,and when the Legion came it undone much of that.

This is true, but the thing is it had the capacity for population and the portrayal fits with how Nightborne have been shown - a supporting force.

The topic of trolls all comes down to the point they shouldnt have the numbers for campgains such as the rebellion since they are lorewise a small tribe who were almost destroyed by the murlocs. They should be lower in number then the High elves. I mean if there was an Alliance civil war can you imagine high elves leading the charge in Elwyn forest and Westfall and being the first to arrive and attack the gates of Stormwind?

That's what I'm illustrating. The trolls empathically didn't. Garrosh had already stomped them off-screen both in Orgrimmar and the Echo Isles. It was only with his forces tied up in Pandaria and with foreign support that they were able to accomplish something. There is little discrepancy between what we know of them and their general success.

According to Veressa her having twins is a miracle for a elf, and that elves dont have many children, now whether that is because they dont want to or simply cant is a another story. If they had the same birth rates as humans the world would have gotten overpopulated real soon.

They don't need to have the same birthrate, though I'm actually buying the idea that elves are pretty fecund, considering that a fraction of Kael'thas's army, who were at most 10% of the blood elves per the sources we have number in the thousands, and the Alliance are devastated when they lose some thousands at the Wrathgate. Ditto with the Nightborne flinging tons of troops at that caster fortress.

Most humans are not superior warriors or mages or better at stealth, only a select few humans excelled at something. Never was a common human soldier or mage presented as superior.

Maybe early on this was the case, but at latest WoD it's in full effect. The Horde need to add ask the Kirin Tor to help them build an arcane sanctum, you know, the thing that elves invented and the Kirin Tor are considered the go-to default mage group despite being basically one city that was already destroyed composed of the elf equivalent of weeaboos.

[Vakir]

It's a fucking sea shanty by the country in question. So it's going to be biased as hell.

Why is the community so terrible at reading the most basic form of storytelling? And it's always a big excuse to have an argument with meta knowledge, when the people who wrote the damn thing (in-universe) didn't have that same information.

[huth]

This is true, but the thing is it had the capacity for population and the portrayal fits with how Nightborne have been shown - a supporting force.

A population that already existed. They didn't really have much room for growth beyond what was already there.

[Feanoro]

Why is the community so terrible at reading the most basic form of storytelling?

It say Horde bad, IT BAD!

[ausoin]

This is true, but the thing is it had the capacity for population and the portrayal fits with how Nightborne have been shown - a supporting force.



That's what I'm illustrating. The trolls empathically didn't. Garrosh had already stomped them off-screen both in Orgrimmar and the Echo Isles. It was only with his forces tied up in Pandaria and with foreign support that they were able to accomplish something. There is little discrepancy between what we know of them and their general success.



They don't need to have the same birthrate, though I'm actually buying the idea that elves are pretty fecund, considering that a fraction of Kael'thas's army, who were at most 10% of the blood elves per the sources we have number in the thousands, and the Alliance are devastated when they lose some thousands at the Wrathgate. Ditto with the Nightborne flinging tons of troops at that caster fortress.



Maybe early on this was the case, but at latest WoD it's in full effect. The Horde need to add ask the Kirin Tor to help them build an arcane sanctum, you know, the thing that elves invented and the Kirin Tor are considered the go-to default mage group despite being basically one city that was already destroyed composed of the elf equivalent of weeaboos.

Capacity for what population? It had for the one it started with.

As I said imagine if the high elves attacked the gates of Stormwind and took all the lands beyond Stormwinds city like the trolls did.

The Alliance lost 50000 soldiers in Nothrend, meaning they had more than 50000 soldiers deployed. Lossing 5000 its not that dealbreaking.


What arcane sanctum are you referring to? Besides its not like there arent elven mages in Dalaran.
That alone means humans are better warriors, rogues and mages? Just because of that?

[Super Dickmann]

Capacity for what population? It had for the one it started with.

@huth

There's no suggestion that Suramar was at maximum capacity when the dome went up. We even see children in the city and the noble families and commoners alike clearly have them. On top of this, as @Nymrohd mentions, they had enough spare population to exile to populate leper colonies across all of Suramar including a giant sinkhole filled entirely with them, every canal of their magical system and most of their up world ruins. I question the characterization of this being out of any draconian motive though. While there was an underclass before the shield went down, it was also post-scarcity, it had endless food and what have you, rationing was only introduced after that as a control measure, hence the popular opinion turning against it.
@ausoin

Your high elf comparison doesn't fly, because as had been told many times already, not only had we already been shown the Darkspear being stomped on their own, not only do they explicitly state their own inability to contest the region alone and later their inability to even so much as breach the city alone, but they are always backed, be it by the most powerful shaman in existence, Alliance resources or other races. Garrosh makes a deliberate choice to hole himself up in Orgrimmar because not just the trolls and tauren but the entire world is coming after him, by Vol'jin's own words, if Garrosh did attack them without foreign backing, he'd stomp them.

As for the Wrathgate, my point is not that the humans were more affected, but that if elven renegades can push thousands of troops and the bulk of the elves were still elsewhere, then that suggests a large population, not a small one. There's not one reference in canon about elven birth rates, this is pure fanfiction.

Finally, having to search for a high elf within the Kirin Tor to make your arcane sanctum and relying on Jaina to allow you in, when you have the people who invented it is laughable. Almost as laughable as all the most powerful mages except Azshara being humans who vastly outclass not one but two 10k year old magical civilizations, having the mage order hall be a secret human organisation, or the elves selling the symbol of elven royalty so that some jackass can plead for his apartment back.

[ausoin]

@huth
There's no suggestion that Suramar was at maximum capacity when the dome went up. We even see children in the city and the noble families and commoners alike clearly have them. On top of this, as @Nymrohd mentions, they had enough spare population to exile to populate leper colonies across all of Suramar including a giant sinkhole filled entirely with them, every canal of their magical system and most of their up world ruins. I question the characterization of this being out of any draconian motive though. While there was an underclass before the shield went down, it was also post-scarcity, it had endless food and what have you, rationing was only introduced after that as a control measure, hence the popular opinion turning against it.
@ausoin

Suramar was the jewel of the NE society, and we can see it was packed with people in the flashback, the most beautiful city of the empire with the population that only makes up half or so of its capacity in the city? Doesn't sounds logical.

Your high elf comparison doesn't fly, because as had been told many times already, not only had we already been shown the Darkspear being stomped on their own, not only do they explicitly state their own inability to contest the region alone and later their inability to even so much as breach the city alone, but they are always backed, be it by the most powerful shaman in existence, Alliance resources or other races. Garrosh makes a deliberate choice to hole himself up in Orgrimmar because not just the trolls and tauren but the entire world is coming after him, by Vol'jin's own words, if Garrosh did attack them without foreign backing, he'd stomp them.

And the High elves would have lost on their own as well, I'm just saying imagine them taking Elwyn forest and Westfall from the 7th Legion and be among the first to attack Stormwind.

As for the Wrathgate, my point is not that the humans were more affected, but that if elven renegades can push thousands of troops and the bulk of the elves were still elsewhere, then that suggests a large population, not a small one. There's not one reference in canon about elven birth rates, this is pure fanfiction.

Yes, there is, Veressa says as much to Rhonin.

Finally, having to search for a high elf within the Kirin Tor to make your arcane sanctum and relying on Jaina to allow you in, when you have the people who invented it is laughable. Almost as laughable as all the most powerful mages except Azshara being humans who vastly outclass not one but two 10k year old magical civilizations, having the mage order hall be a secret human organisation, or the elves selling the symbol of elven royalty so that some jackass can plead for his apartment back.

Jaina at that time was the leader of KT, so of course, she is the one who gives access,

There you are again with humans being the most powerfull mages, again just because a select few like Jaina and Khadgar who went through experiences few others had are powefull , doesn't mean humans at large are better mages.

[Super Dickmann]

Suramar was the jewel of the NE society, and we can see it was packed with people in the flashback, the most beautiful city of the empire with the population that only makes up half or so of its capacity in the city? Doesn't sounds logical.

This is a bizzare argument. Let's say that I say Vienna is the beautiful city in Austria. That doesn't necessarily say anything about its capacity. You could surely fit more people there and there would obviously be children born over 10k years, as I've already proven to you.

And the High elves would have lost on their own as well, I'm just saying imagine them taking Elwyn forest and Westfall from the 7th Legion and be among the first to attack Stormwind.

I don't have to, because it didn't happen with the Darkspear. The Darkspear are among the weakest races and have always been shown this way. Blizzard couldn't append more caveats to that situation if they tried.

I'll take your word on the Valeera thing because I'd sooner not subject myself to any Knaak.

There you are again with humans being the most powerfull mages, again just because a select few like Jaina and Khadgar who went through experiences few others had are powefull , doesn't mean humans at large are better mages.

The Kirin Tor vastly outstrip all other magical organisations in power and relevance, to say anything else is simply false. Elves having to participate in human mage organisations already borders on parody, and so do Jaina and Khadgar's inexplicable powerboosts, considering that Khadgar can casually do what Elisande required the Nightwell to pull off. Or how a human paladin is superior to the draenei who've had 25k years of fighting the Legion under their belt. You name me a time non-human mages have done something impressive on-screen I'll name you five where it's the Kirin Tor.

[huth]

@huth

There's no suggestion that Suramar was at maximum capacity when the dome went up. We even see children in the city and the noble families and commoners alike clearly have them. On top of this, as @Nymrohd mentions, they had enough spare population to exile to populate leper colonies across all of Suramar including a giant sinkhole filled entirely with them, every canal of their magical system and most of their up world ruins. I question the characterization of this being out of any draconian motive though. While there was an underclass before the shield went down, it was also post-scarcity, it had endless food and what have you, rationing was only introduced after that as a control measure, hence the popular opinion turning against it.

The Suramar under the dome was only part of the city. Where do you think all those ruins are from?

Besides, yes, they had spare population they exiled... and there's kids in a city with only limited room for growth. Do the math.

[Super Dickmann]

The Suramar under the dome was only part of the city. Where do you think all those ruins are from?

Besides, yes, they had spare population they exiled... and there's kids in a city with only limited room for growth. Do the math.

The city doesn't look to be especially overpopulated. Again, resource limitations didn't exist under the dome. They clearly did have a fuck lot of kids, because most of the rest of Suramar is full of exiles of one description or another. We know they're exiles because they're specifically degenerated nightborne not night elves.

[ausoin]

This is a bizzare argument. Let's say that I say Vienna is the beautiful city in Austria. That doesn't necessarily say anything about its capacity. You could surely fit more people there and there would obviously be children born over 10k years, as I've already proven to you.

All im saying there seem to be lots of people in the flashback, and they cant build new buildings, their population can only grow to a certain degree.

I don't have to, because it didn't happen with the Darkspear. The Darkspear are among the weakest races and have always been shown this way. Blizzard couldn't append more caveats to that situation if they tried.

The Darkspear did take Razor hill and the Barrens from the Korkon,that was the main story of 5.3 and they were among the first to attack the gates of Ogrimmar.

The Kirin Tor vastly outstrip all other magical organisations in power and relevance, to say anything else is simply false. Elves having to participate in human mage organisations already borders on parody, and so do Jaina and Khadgar's inexplicable powerboosts, considering that Khadgar can casually do what Elisande required the Nightwell to pull off. Or how a human paladin is superior to the draenei who've had 25k years of fighting the Legion under their belt. You name me a time non-human mages have done something impressive on-screen I'll name you five where it's the Kirin Tor.

Kirin tor is not a human only organization, one of the leaders was Keal and later Aethas. Now, why did they returned is a more complicated topic, one explanation is that in time of crisis its hard to find the time to build a new flying city to battle the Legion. And for centuries elves lived in Dalaran, maybe some are not easily gonna leave it behind.

What did Khadgar do that Elisande has also done?
Turalyon didn't become one of the army leaders overnight, it took over hundreds of years.

[Super Dickmann]

All im saying there seem to be lots of people in the flashback, and they cant build new buildings, their population can only grow to a certain degree.

We know from Silvermoon that elves can generate buildings with magic. Having lots of people already doesn't mean you can't have even more people when having more people has no cost. Even a miniscule birth rate would result in a gradual population increase, given 10k years to work with and there's no reason to assume the birthrate is that low.

The Darkspear did take Razor hill and the Barrens from the Korkon, and they were among the first to attack the gates of Ogrimmar.

Again, they were attacking the gates of Orgrimmar because Garrosh had retreated to Orgrimmar. Razor Hill was sparsely guarded, whereas in the Barrens they already had tauren and more importantly Alliance support.

Kirin tor is not a human only organization, one of the leaders was Keal and later Aethas. Now, why did they returned is a more complicated topic, one explanation is that in time of crisis its hard to find the time to build a new flying city to battle the Legion. And for centuries elves lived in Dalaran, who some are not easily gonna leave it behind.

My issue isn't with Dalaran being the floating platform, but rather the degree of focus put into it. Elves have a much longer tradition of magic and Dalaran and the Kirin Tor's status as masters of all magic is a comparatively recent invasion. Even its Archmage couldn't stop the Scourge back in WC3 and Archimonde destroyed their city himself. Now the whole of the Legion can't do anything to the city and the mage order hall is some secret group of human mages in which other races must seek refuge. That there are token elves only further illustrates this point, because it places them in a junior position in a field where they should have a significant advantage. The same applies for Turalyon, he has 25x times less the experience that they do.

Khadgar did a time stop alone against the Blackrock in Shattrath. Elisande required the Nightwell to do it vs. the united elf forces.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

A city can be a fairly big thing. You have vast tracts of land in modern states where no one lives, whereas a metropolis can easily exceed the millions. As for the rebel army, the rebels are explicitly presented as a weak entity. They require foreign support from the Alliance, fail at the gates until either the Alliance ships or the blood elves and Forsaken arrive and are ultimately only able to contest parts of two zones, compared to humanity, which is everywhere.

These are questionable since Kul Tiras is independent and Lordaeron, while very large, had only a fraction of its people go to Stormwind for geographic reasons. Gilneas I'm counting separately because the worgen are always presented as a separate entity.

The Night Elves should easily exceed all humans in numbers as of WC3 and even into their WoW portrayal, the dwarves have only extended and Kul Tiras, despite its civil war issues also should by rights be more powerful than Stormwind. The point isn't so much that Stormwind is unique in this regard, but that it's the most egregious example and it damages the story far more so in the process because of how humans are everywhere.

For sure a metropolis can indeed near a million in a preindustrial age, like Ancient Rome, Teotihuacan, Paris or Edo, but that heavily depends on how they get their food : either from a very extensive area or extremely intensive gardens, either way using relatively advanced agriculture and a decent transportation network.

The only ones that really showed that so far are :
-the various Human Kingdoms (cities surrounded by a countryside dotted with farms)
-the Pandaren (much much bountyfull farming until Garry)
-the Drakkari Trolls (with their amazingly terraced and irrigated kingdom, a pity they butchered them so quickly... and haven't been struck by farms in Zandalar, do they only fish, hunt and rear dinosaurs?)
-the Draenei from Draenor had several big cities and nicely developed farmland, in addition to being long lived and having superior magic and technology... no wonder that left without exterior interference they'd obliterate the rest...

In contrast to that several major races are pretty much hunter gathers mixed with a little farming :
-the way Night Elves are depicted doesn't really work with high population numbers : they appear as mostly scattered hunter gathers with some tiny gardens, and I've always found weird for Darnassus to even exist, as they were always shown to eschew Cities, in contrast of the Ancient Kaldorei Empire...
-while Dwarves where indeed the main Alliance race in Vanilla, they show only very little agriculture, some animal husbandry and substantial hunting...
-tauren draw heavily on Lakota and the likes so mainly nomadic hunter gatherers... Highmountains did have some farms but Mayla never saw so many of her specie before setting hoof in Thunderbluf...
-orcs IIRC hunt and rear boars, but since they couldn't survive on the lands of Stormwind, they'd have lower productivity
-all the trolls safe for the Drakkari are depicted as hunter-gatherers, so its only natural they'd lose to more numerous humans.

I guess we can count only the followings as post-scarcity urbanized societies :
-Quel'thalas, because eternal summer and magic
-Suramar, because magic (in continuity with the Ancient Kaldorei Empire)
-Gnomes because otherwise it wouldn't make any sense (some hydroponics and lots of summoned food?)
-Goblins maybe a bit of the same plus a lot of trade and natural resource pillaging.

[ausoin]

We know from Silvermoon that elves can generate buildings with magic. Having lots of people already doesn't mean you can't have even more people when having more people has no cost. Even a miniscule birth rate would result in a gradual population increase, given 10k years to work with and there's no reason to assume the birthrate is that low.

Yes but where are you going to put those buildings, on what space?

Again, they were attacking the gates of Orgrimmar because Garrosh had retreated to Orgrimmar. Razor Hill was sparsely guarded, whereas in the Barrens they already had tauren and more importantly Alliance support.

Garrosh first send an army to attack the rebels, then they counterattacked and took Razor Hill, Alliance support consisted of just the player, and a couple of npcs doing nothing.

My issue isn't with Dalaran being the floating platform, but rather the degree of focus put into it. Elves have a much longer tradition of magic and Dalaran and the Kirin Tor's status as masters of all magic is a comparatively recent invasion. Even its Archmage couldn't stop the Scourge back in WC3 and Archimonde destroyed their city himself. Now the whole of the Legion can't do anything to the city and the mage order hall is some secret group of human mages in which other races must seek refuge. That there are token elves only further illustrates this point, because it places them in a junior position in a field where they should have a significant advantage. The same applies for Turalyon, he has 25x times less the experience that they do.

Yes, the Legion was nerfed heavily, but they weren't nerfed for the sake of Dalaran alone.

Khadgar did a time stop alone against the Blackrock in Shattrath. Elisande required the Nightwell to do it vs. the united elf forces.

Was that in a novel?

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

We know from Silvermoon that elves can generate buildings with magic. Having lots of people already doesn't mean you can't have even more people when having more people has no cost. Even a miniscule birth rate would result in a gradual population increase, given 10k years to work with and there's no reason to assume the birthrate is that low.

Again, they were attacking the gates of Orgrimmar because Garrosh had retreated to Orgrimmar. Razor Hill was sparsely guarded, whereas in the Barrens they already had tauren and more importantly Alliance support.

My issue isn't with Dalaran being the floating platform, but rather the degree of focus put into it. Elves have a much longer tradition of magic and Dalaran and the Kirin Tor's status as masters of all magic is a comparatively recent invasion. Even its Archmage couldn't stop the Scourge back in WC3 and Archimonde destroyed their city himself. Now the whole of the Legion can't do anything to the city and the mage order hall is some secret group of human mages in which other races must seek refuge. That there are token elves only further illustrates this point, because it places them in a junior position in a field where they should have a significant advantage. The same applies for Turalyon, he has 25x times less the experience that they do.

Khadgar did a time stop alone against the Blackrock in Shattrath. Elisande required the Nightwell to do it vs. the united elf forces.

On human magical superiority, isn't that explained as them having much more natural raw power without any drawbacks, akin to ogres, owing to their origin as Titan constructs, the Titans being the representative of the Arcane?
In contrast Elves are described as a life form corrupted by the powers of magic. So maybe something like them being able to touch it more easily, but with an inferior rate of progression offsetted by a longer lifespan, combined with a power cap.

IIRC they pushed a similar narrative in the history of Draenor : the primitive ogres being taught the Arcane by the elder race of the Arrakoa, with the latter dumbfounded at the power they were able to master.

[Super Dickmann]

Yes but where are you going to put those buildings, on what space?

We're shown that the outer parts of the city are fairly green, so it's not like they're short on space if they wanted to use it. I don't think we can determine from one shot of the pre-Sundering city that nothing changed about it in thousands of years.

Garrosh first send an army to attack the rebels, then they counterattacked and took Razor Hill, Alliance support consisted of just the player, and a couple of npcs doing nothing.

The Alliance support, much like the tauren one is mostly off-screen, but it's absolutely a decisive factor. We don't need guesswork here, Vol'jin flat out tells you if you're Alliance that without your help he's fucked and begs for Alliance aid, as is proper for any rebellious Warchief candidate. What they did in those early moments was the upper limit of the Darkspear's ability.

Yes, the Legion was nerfed heavily, but they weren't nerfed for the sake of Dalaran alone.

No, but that wasn't my case. It's not that these issues are reserved to humans, it's just that humans are by an order of magnitude the most egregious offender. Blood/void elves are runners up. The Khadgar thing is in the WoD questing, just before the cinematic with Blackhand and Yrel. He timestops the entire army.
@JMvS

First off, cheers on a really solid post and rundown. The Night Elves are the only ones I'd quibble with, since due to their ties with nature a hunter-gatherer lifestyle would be a lot more sustainable than it would be for regular people in the same spot. Mind, it occurs to me now that there's huge intervals where the men sleep and it's just women, so I'm surprised that excuse hasn't been used.

Regarding humans though, that natural potential thing is headcanon as far as I'm aware. It doesn't have canonical backing and it wouldn't really make much sense when you think about it. If humans derive their arcane ability from being former titan constructs because the titans are the head honchos of arcane then surely the elves would be ahead in this field, because not only were they shaped by arcane from the open wound of the strongest titan, but then remained exposed to it for ages. The cap thing is also discredited, as we do know that mages like Azshara and Elisande are indeed on about the same level as Jaina or Khadgar, so they can reach that height, they just don't despite logically having the ability to.

[Malikath]

On human magical superiority, isn't that explained as them having much more natural raw power without any drawbacks, akin to ogres, owing to their origin as Titan constructs, the Titans being the representative of the Arcane?
In contrast Elves are described as a life form corrupted by the powers of magic. So maybe something like them being able to touch it more easily, but with an inferior rate of progression offsetted by a longer lifespan, combined with a power cap.

IIRC they pushed a similar narrative in the history of Draenor : the primitive ogres being taught the Arcane by the elder race of the Arrakoa, with the latter dumbfounded at the power they were able to master.

pretty much, alot of the "human potential" memedots seem to forget that this magical affinity extends to ALL titan-construct descended races.
it's merely more pronounced in humans due to the iron vrykul's role as a military unit rather then an industrial or scientific one.
ogres meanwhile had a harder tinge towards anti-magic abjuration due to the fact the breakers were made to fight a magical enemy force.
then you have the mogu who were magical control and enhancement focused.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

First off, cheers on a really solid post and rundown. The Night Elves are the only ones I'd quibble with, since due to their ties with nature a hunter-gatherer lifestyle would be a lot more sustainable than it would be for regular people in the same spot. Mind, it occurs to me now that there's huge intervals where the men sleep and it's just women, so I'm surprised that excuse hasn't been used.

Regarding humans though, that natural potential thing is headcanon as far as I'm aware. It doesn't have canonical backing and it wouldn't really make much sense when you think about it. If humans derive their arcane ability from being former titan constructs because the titans are the head honchos of arcane then surely the elves would be ahead in this field, because not only were they shaped by arcane from the open wound of the strongest titan, but then remained exposed to it for ages. The cap thing is also discredited, as we do know that mages like Azshara and Elisande are indeed on about the same level as Jaina or Khadgar, so they can reach that height, they just don't despite logically having the ability to.

On the Night Elves, my impression given the Lore till now is that during the whole Long Vigil their society was almost frozen in time. IIRC didn't Tyrande mention that she watched Malfurion sleep for 10'000 years? There are most likely a lot of discrepancies but wasn't it : all the Druids (males) went to sleep to guard the Emerald druid while the Sentinels (females) watched over the normal world? With probably only little civilians left, dotted in small settlements if not living as recluse (like Jarod Shadowsong and his Wife). Due to all of this, in the early game, it felt pretty much natural that there's be no children in sight.

Now after the 3rd War and the end of the Long Vigil, there were a great number of changes : loss of immortality (them being "frozen in time"), but also the founding of Darnassus, their first new city in 10 millenia, the return of the Shen'dralar Highborne. In Legion we saw a lot of new stuff, with lots of undead Kaldorei of different kinds, a few surviving Moonguard and a whole city preserved in pickles that ended on the opposite faction, before the obliteration of Darnassus. Now unless they simply let themselves die out, after all these changes they should "restart" for good their society.

pretty much, alot of the "human potential" memedots seem to forget that this magical affinity extends to ALL titan-construct descended races.
it's merely more pronounced in humans due to the iron vrykul's role as a military unit rather then an industrial or scientific one.
ogres meanwhile had a harder tinge towards anti-magic abjuration due to the fact the breakers were made to fight a magical enemy force.
then you have the mogu who were magical control and enhancement focused.

IIRC the elves differ from all the titan-construct, as they are simply not one of them : in the description of one of the grey items from the broken isles there's a mention of "long tusked humanoids facing faceless creatures", hinting at Trolls being present on Azeroth at the time of the Black Empire, before the arrival of the Titans, and thus being a native specie.

Regarding the magic affinity, I am not speaking of any "human potential", but of the Arcane being ingrained in every Titan-construct : there were several mentions of Ogres and Mogu using the Arcane liberally and naturally (and almost innately, as opposed to using lots of techniques). Similarly, humans, dwarves and gnomes are able to master great power without any sings of the addiction drawbacks displayed by the elven kin in general.

What makes the "human potential" is in the end plain demography : since they have a much larger population and rate of renewal, it gives them much much more chances for exceptional individuals to appear (and for Human Mages and Archmages quickly outnumbering the Magisters).

[Combatbutler]

On human magical superiority, isn't that explained as them having much more natural raw power without any drawbacks, akin to ogres, owing to their origin as Titan constructs, the Titans being the representative of the Arcane?
In contrast Elves are described as a life form corrupted by the powers of magic. So maybe something like them being able to touch it more easily, but with an inferior rate of progression offsetted by a longer lifespan, combined with a power cap.

IIRC they pushed a similar narrative in the history of Draenor : the primitive ogres being taught the Arcane by the elder race of the Arrakoa, with the latter dumbfounded at the power they were able to master.

The problem is in all of the lore it is never once said that the humans are actually better/stronger, the only source that researched arcane affinity and magic was a book in dalaran which pretty much said humans and elves are pretty much equal.