Tyrande takes a jibe at the nightborne/blood elves.

[Leodok]

still existent, to some extent

To what extent, exactly?

[Leodric]

Word on the street, is Tyrande has some sillies in her new pokes.





Here are some of the others

“I like you, say, would you happen to have a twin brother?”

“No, I am not into blindfolds. Well, perhaps a little”

It's true though, look at the blood elves and nightborne. Sad!

[Doffen]

Well this is just Tyrande and any other elf. They look down at other races, they hate the other faction elves with passion and blizz made /sillies to have fun with it.

Tyrande has a history of showing care, even to other races. Broxigar, Kael'thas(oh M G a High/Blood Elf) to name good examples. It's not all black and white, they do have some good moments. Last one was like 17 years ago though, been a while.

In any way, some jibe is in order.

[ravenmoon]

It's true though, look at the blood elves and nightborne. Sad!

Reminds me of Elisande, except she is obviously joking.

I laughed when she snorted "derivative elf" it does have the air of the xenophobic night elf female the wc3 version was often interpreted as.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Reminds me of Elisande, except she is obviously joking.

I laughed when she snorted "derivative elf" it does have the air of the xenophobic night elf female the wc3 version was often interpreted as.

The way she talked down to high elves really was beautiful. The way she talked down to everyone was perfect.

[Raugnaut]

A note on Trolls - The Drakkari actually had an empire that was pretty close in size to Zuldazar. However, we (The adventurers) only get up there and see the remnants of it AFTER the Drakkari had been in... an ~5 year or so war with the Lich King?

Gun'Drak would have been very impressive if we went there during Vanilla, rather then during Wrath.

Additionally, the Amani/Gurabashi that we know are basically remnants of their previous empires. The most accurate RL equivalent would probably be Detriot - Once a very prosperous and lively city, now half of it's run down. Note that the Amani Empire spanned from the bottom of the Ghostlands nearly all the way up to Silvermoon, and the Gurabashi empire at one point covered the entirety of Stranglethorn Vale, extending all the way into the Swamp of Sorrows.

[Florena]

A note on Trolls - The Drakkari actually had an empire that was pretty close in size to Zuldazar. However, we (The adventurers) only get up there and see the remnants of it AFTER the Drakkari had been in... an ~5 year or so war with the Lich King?

Gun'Drak would have been very impressive if we went there during Vanilla, rather then during Wrath.

Additionally, the Amani/Gurabashi that we know are basically remnants of their previous empires. The most accurate RL equivalent would probably be Detriot - Once a very prosperous and lively city, now half of it's run down. Note that the Amani Empire spanned from the bottom of the Ghostlands nearly all the way up to Silvermoon, and the Gurabashi empire at one point covered the entirety of Stranglethorn Vale, extending all the way into the Swamp of Sorrows.

Aren't we also partially responsible to an extent by aiding Drakuru in Drak'Theron Keep? If I remember right Zul'drak was doing alright until we help him and then Drakuru's work allows the Scourge to invade Zul'drak leading to our quests there but I could be remembering wrong.

[RobertMugabe]

tyrande is racist , she needs to be removed from her place of authority immediately

this game and the story it tells has no place for ignorant racist bigots

tyrande needs to be held accountable for her attacks on her own people

haha wtf?! guess who writes the story and think again how stupid your comment is

[Friendlyimmolation]

Aren't we also partially responsible to an extent by aiding Drakuru in Drak'Theron Keep? If I remember right Zul'drak was doing alright until we help him and then Drakuru's work allows the Scourge to invade Zul'drak leading to our quests there but I could be remembering wrong.

Yea we the players pretty much kick the Drakkari while they are down, the players really are the worst type of scum.

[ravenmoon]

A note on Trolls - The Drakkari actually had an empire that was pretty close in size to Zuldazar. However, we (The adventurers) only get up there and see the remnants of it AFTER the Drakkari had been in... an ~5 year or so war with the Lich King?

Gun'Drak would have been very impressive if we went there during Vanilla, rather then during Wrath.

Additionally, the Amani/Gurabashi that we know are basically remnants of their previous empires. The most accurate RL equivalent would probably be Detriot - Once a very prosperous and lively city, now half of it's run down. Note that the Amani Empire spanned from the bottom of the Ghostlands nearly all the way up to Silvermoon, and the Gurabashi empire at one point covered the entirety of Stranglethorn Vale, extending all the way into the Swamp of Sorrows.

It's like Eldre'thalas aka Dire Maul, up to 200 years ago, it was a pristine kaldorei pre simmering city, like Suramar. It has been 200 years in ruin, and ravaged by the Ogre Goruduuni, Satyr corruption, the zealots didn't even care their city was crumbling around them as long as they could gain more knowledge.

Which I s why I am surprised when people snub the shen'dralar for arcane knowledge and mastery, there is no other elven sub group recorded to by so fixated on arcane and knowledge, and they've been at it for 10,000 years longer and more fiercely intense than any magic wielding race or group of elves, includingall Thalassian groups. Only the nightborne have a similar time scale and they aren't recorded as being as fanatical over the arcane and they lived inappropriately bubble unlike the Shen'dralar who are recorded to have been carrying on the world which implies they would have picked up additional knowledge to their discoveries.

[Combatbutler]

It's like Eldre'thalas aka Dire Maul, up to 200 years ago, it was a pristine kaldorei pre simmering city, like Suramar. It has been 200 years in ruin, and ravaged by the Ogre Goruduuni, Satyr corruption, the zealots didn't even care their city was crumbling around them as long as they could gain more knowledge.

The city fell 1.200 years ago, you forgot a millennium.

Which I s why I am surprised when people snub the shen'dralar for arcane knowledge and mastery, there is no other elven sub group recorded to by so fixated on arcane and knowledge, and they've been at it for 10,000 years longer and more fiercely intense than any magic wielding race or group of elves, includingall Thalassian groups. Only the nightborne have a similar time scale and they aren't recorded as being as fanatical over the arcane and they lived inappropriately bubble unlike the Shen'dralar who are recorded to have been carrying on the world which implies they would have picked up additional knowledge to their discoveries.

The shen'dralar were more about power than any other group, which is why the resorted to fel magic right after the sundering using it for 10.000 years straight. And immediately slaughtered almost the entire population to maintain said power for themselves and with the purge they destroyed vast swaths of knowledge, they could have remained formidable, but they lost their edge the moment their city essentially became a village and was competing with much more other skilled elven magi which in turn allowed the other highborne to catch up and in some fields overtake them.

[ravenmoon]

The city fell 1.200 years ago, you forgot a millennium.

Are you sure? Last time I checked it was 200, unless I misread it.

The shen'dralar were more about power than any other group, which is why the resorted to fel magic right after the sundering using it for 10.000 years straight. And immediately slaughtered almost the entire population to maintain said power for themselves and with the purge they destroyed vast swaths of knowledge,

The purge didn't happen immediately, it happened over a long period of time, as Immol'that slowly increased his grip, and the fel magic was slowly corrupting the Prince.

Remember these were not evil highborne. The Prince is said to take this route because he is been corrupted, and Immol'thar's net gain only turns to net loss much further down the line, and it is over a long period of time. They are still alive when we reach them in classic, which implies the purge is still going on, and it is slow.

They could have been a great force today, but they are highly skilled group. I would wager a knowledge fanatic group like this has preserved its knowledge very well. So while they lost people, they would have recorded. This is a wager, lots of grey areas on them, you can only go by the info we are given. If you love knowledge that greatly, you would find ways to keep it, even if you lose people, or even especially ... made more certain if you were paranoid and plotting assassinations, you would ensure the knowledge is kept.

The most valuable stuff you would not share or leave in books for everyone, you'd probably give the most insignificant and trivial knowledge to adventurers, stuff that is basic knowledge to you but likely advanced to them, and you would know what to offer them if you had been scrying on them.

If blizzard wanted to show a strong arcane night elf group, they have the shen'dralar and their knowledge/expertise to bring to bear, they have the Moonguard as the highest skilled magical combat group on their side, and they have the Farondis they could bring to life.

Currently none of these are in a great state, they are tiny in numbers, their strongholds and cities in ruins they are a remnant. The entire night elf race is a remnant. However, they can rebuild

[Magnagarde]

But what are the Kaldorei, if not a degenerate flavor of Dark Trolls twisted by a magical well? Tyrandumb strikes again.

The Kaldorei are the first of the elves though. She's not wrong in regards to elves of Azeroth in general.

[mcastillo88]

This is pretty much how every Night Elf should act towards the lesser elves.

Yes, maybe if you hippies shade the other elves hard enough your tree fort will grow back.

"The sin'dorei are also scorned by Tyrande and her prideful lot. Yet for many ages her people slept in dens or hid in trees while my people fought to save this world."- best quote from Legion.

[Hellspawn]

Yes, maybe if you hippies shade the other elves hard enough your tree fort will grow back.

"The sin'dorei are also scorned by Tyrande and her prideful lot. Yet for many ages her people slept in dens or hid in trees while my people fought to save this world."- best quote from Legion.

... but completly wrong.

[UnluckyAmateur]

Eh, but Liadrin is just showing she is completely oblivious of world history there. Someone should mail her the Chronicle.

I would argue that shit was purposely warping the truth to bring the nightborne into the fold. Everything bad that Nelfs might have done has been repeated by the Belfs without failure. Well of eternity = KJ and the sunwell is the only one I can think of at the moment but yea. That Jawn was lyin.

[Combatbutler]

Are you sure? Last time I checked it was 200, unless I misread it.

It is in chronicle 1 page 139

The purge didn't happen immediately, it happened over a long period of time, as Immol'that slowly increased his grip, and the fel magic was slowly corrupting the Prince.

I never said it did I said the city fell 1.200 years ago, which is the time a minority of the Shen'dralar decided to wipe out the vast majority of the population.

Remember these were not evil highborne. The Prince is said to take this route because he is been corrupted, and Immol'thar's net gain only turns to net loss much further down the line, and it is over a long period of time. They are still alive when we reach them in classic, which implies the purge is still going on, and it is slow.

The shen'dralar are the most rotten highborne out there, with the exception of the Naga. The purge was not just a slow thing the initial one was brutal and every last surviving Shen'dralar is complicit in it. So that they could draw power from the demon but even for these few the power balance shifted, until the horde discovered what they were doing and beat the ever living shit out of them driving them from the city and after years of wandering did they finally join the night elves.

They could have been a great force today, but they are highly skilled group. I would wager a knowledge fanatic group like this has preserved its knowledge very well. So while they lost people, they would have recorded. This is a wager, lots of grey areas on them, you can only go by the info we are given. If you love knowledge that greatly, you would find ways to keep it, even if you lose people, or even especially ... made more certain if you were paranoid and plotting assassinations, you would ensure the knowledge is kept.

Too bad they lost it all when the horde drove them from the city when they discovered immol'thar, and when they were directly involved they did never display any kind of mastery of the arcane that outshined the other highborne and there is something else you seem to forget, the Shen'dralar are a group of highborne that holds knowledge the night elves alone studied, the highborne that would become Naga and Thalassians learned from the Legion, which was thousands of years more advanced in arcane matters, for a time.

The most valuable stuff you would not share or leave in books for everyone, you'd probably give the most insignificant and trivial knowledge to adventurers, stuff that is basic knowledge to you but likely advanced to them, and you would know what to offer them if you had been scrying on them.

If blizzard wanted to show a strong arcane night elf group, they have the shen'dralar and their knowledge/expertise to bring to bear, they have the Moonguard as the highest skilled magical combat group on their side, and they have the Farondis they could bring to life.

The nightborne pretty much eradicated the moonguard, the shen'dralar were driven out of Eldre'thalas years ago and lost access to pretty much all their hoarded knowledge and many of them died during the war of thorns and other conflicts.

[ravenmoon]

It is in chronicle 1 page 139

Thanks, I've been saying 200 years, and its been picked up,

I never said it did I said the city fell 1.200 years ago, which is the time a minority of the Shen'dralar decided to wipe out the vast majority of the population.

This makes much more sense, the way you said it implied this happened after the sundering.

However, I still don't think it happened in any purge. The way I read the text implies it happened gradually. As Immolthar keeps increasing his power draw, more and more people are killed to keep it at a net gain. I will have to visit both chronicles and the in game spirit again to see if their statements definitively prove one of us right or at least make more sense with your interpretation or with mine.

The shen'dralar are the most rotten highborne out there, with the exception of the Naga. The purge was not just a slow thing the initial one was brutal and every last surviving Shen'dralar is complicit in it. So that they could draw power from the demon but even for these few the power balance shifted, until the horde discovered what they were doing and beat the ever living shit out of them driving them from the city and after years of wandering did they finally join the night elves.

Now I am not sure if it is the ogres that drive them out once the demon is slain, or if it is the horde adventurers, but bear in mind the shen'dralar recruit horde and alliance players in cata to help them restore their city. I doubt they would ask the horde if it was they that drove them away.., although it is possible they could taking the horde action as just given the stupor they were in, but now cleansed of corruption, okay with using them.

Anyway, it isn't the horde that does anything, it is adventurers, horde races party perhaps, but not done in the name of the horde. Estulan is fine with asking horde adventurers as well as alliance to help him, adventurers do it for money here, not in the name of the horde. As the quest giver is alliance.

Too bad they lost it all when the horde drove them from the city when they discovered immol'thar, and when they were directly involved they did never display any kind of mastery of the arcane that outshined the other highborne and there is something else you seem to forget, the Shen'dralar are a group of highborne that holds knowledge the night elves alone studied, the highborne that would become Naga and Thalassians learned from the Legion, which was thousands of years more advanced in arcane matters, for a time.

1. They lost the city when the Ogres drove them out, need to double check the source though. I reckon Immol'thar and Prince being slain was the wake up call, and they fled...but remember adventurers traded with them for a while.

2. We don't know if they lost any knowledge, unlike pre sundering cities, Eldre'thalas wasn't destroyed, it just fell to ruin as less and less people and magical power was used to upkeep it. This started 1200 years ago. So knowledge and artifacts would not necessarily be lost.

For all we know the knowledge is in the acorns of ancients, or construct cores or some new means they devicem remember they would have retained many lost techniques to high elven mages and have had 10,000 years to refine them. For a people to whom knowledge was their greatest treasure and highest pursuit, I think they would have carried those with them in ways lost to us. We see them able to teach new night elves at an astonishing rate in cataclysm. While the constructs were exploitable for magical warfare, which would not have been their forte, it is possible these were modified to hold vast amounts of arcane knowledge or they could transfer knowledge to them...this is just one example of how. So if blizzard want to say they have their knowledge, it is not infeasible.

3. As for us never seen their mastery displayed in direct involvement we must note:
a) We really don't fight them at all in classic or cata, we just take out the corrupt Prince exacting vengeance for the slain shen'dralar,
b) this should not be concluded to mean they didnt have or it was lesser, when the lore has painted an elevated picture of them and their city is in ruins when we visit - which explains why we don't see much. It is also not updated and the night elf cata campaign has minimal updates, much night elf stuff is placeholder u til they do an expansion, like we saw in Legion. Well of eternity end times was a placeholder. Furthermore there are many races, groups, factions that blizzard really hasn't shown fully as the lore, or there presentation has belied their capability. Look at highly intelligent dragons often in lair caves but capable of extraordinary magical feat and quite advanced.

4. I wont take the shabby or lack of visible mastery of the shen'dralar as any proof they are crap, or lesser, we just haven't seen them properly or in action. Unlike the nightborne or other night elf groups like the Farondis or Moonguard, Wardnes or Illidari. Cata did not show a single action scene with a shen'dralar, and all we fought was Tothelddinn who was supposed to be in a fel crazed stupor.
If blizzard were to show incredible arcana and feats from night elf mages coming from the sh

The nightborne pretty much eradicated the moonguard, the shen'dralar were driven out of Eldre'thalas years ago and lost access to pretty much all their hoarded knowledge and many of them died during the war of thorns and other conflicts

But the Moonguard survive, their combat expertise too with their most experienced leaders surviving as well as some younger ones. Means they can train formidable night elf offensive casters if blizzard wants. They took out far more nightborne than the invaders took them out. And these were nightwell fuelled combatants, military trained dusk watch , like the ones we fight in the night hold. This really show caused how awesome they are. We are not shown the shen'dralar in action or doing anything great, but given their lore, we shouldn't assume they are not capable and should expect to see somethings down the line, they were the best of the best.

And as mentioned earlier, been driven out of the city may not necessarily mean their knowledge is lost to them, especially if they have clever ways of retaining it... they didntfall to ruin instantlylikeothernight elf cities, but over a thousand years, enough time to preserve their favourite thing -- arcane knowledge

[ohwell]

those devolutions shat down the neck of every troll empire that tried to fuck with them.

Much like how everyone LOVES to overhype the power of Azshara, the Night Elves as they were when they did fight the trolls had a massive font of power that was feeding them. You know, that thing that she's snidely commenting about when others used it. She's only lucky she wasn't a part of the elite at her time or she'd be trying to suck from every magical font she could find. If there were no WoE, the elves would never had existed much less beaten any troll race.

[ravenmoon]

Much like how everyone LOVES to overhype the power of Azshara, the Night Elves as they were when they did fight the trolls had a massive font of power that was feeding them. You know, that thing that she's snidely commenting about when others used it. She's only lucky she wasn't a part of the elite at her time or she'd be trying to suck from every magical font she could find. If there were no WoE, the elves would never had existed much less beaten any troll race.

But don't take credit where it was due, the only ones that figured how to use arcane from the Well were the night elves, and they still were able to push forward.

The trolls were using many forms of magic by that time and had the Loa as helpers, and still couldn't match Night Warrior night elves and arcane wielding Moonguard.

And their civilization is remarked to be the most magnificent, to the extent that none others, even those of today could compare. Suramar , the only pristine remaining city is a testament to that.