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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Caiphon View Post
    Nevertheless the WC3 Sunfury were basically your average Silvermoon magisters, warriors and rangers sharing the same history and culture before Kael went mad with power (which came significantly after cooperating with the Naga). I've never claimed the current Sin'dorei had relations with the Naga, just that they likely wouldn't be completely horrified by the idea as Kael's folks didn't have too much of a problem with it even before their spiraling descent. There is also at least one important official that has seen collaboration with the Naga - Rommath, who was sent by Kael from Outland to share Illidan's knowledge with Silvermoon.
    The Blood elves only joined forces with the Naga because they were desperate. Had they not done so, the Scourge that was encroaching on Dalaran would have slaughtered them all. Silvermoon and the Ghostlands are still ruined but the Blood elves nowadays are no longer in such a desperate state that they would consider cooperation with the naga.

    The Kaldorei and Ren'dorei are not desperate for allies either, but they have a clear story connection with the Naga, one that the Blood elves lack, or do not have to the same extent. The Kaldorei and the Naga were enemies during the War of the Ancients, and a story of forgiveness and reconciliation can be told here, and both the Ren'dorei and Naga are victims of the Void. Alleria, Umbric, and the Ren'dorei were transformed by the Void Naaru/Void Ethereals, while the Naga were transformed by the Old God N'Zoth.

    Whatever connection any Horde race might have with the Naga, it is not nearly as interesting as the clear thematic link between Naga and these two aforementioned Alliance races.

    Furthermore, this hypothetical race would be redundant in the Horde, as the Nightborne already represent the fantasy of "decadent Highborne remnant race".

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The Blood elves only joined forces with the Naga because they were desperate. Had they not done so, the Scourge that was encroaching on Dalaran would have slaughtered them all. Silvermoon and the Ghostlands are still ruined but the Blood elves nowadays are no longer in such a desperate state that they would consider cooperation with the naga.

    The Kaldorei and Ren'dorei are not desperate for allies either, but they have a clear story connection with the Naga, one that the Blood elves lack, or do not have to the same extent. The Kaldorei and the Naga were enemies during the War of the Ancients, and a story of forgiveness and reconciliation can be told here, and both the Ren'dorei and Naga are victims of the Void. Alleria, Umbric, and the Ren'dorei were transformed by the Void Naaru/Void Ethereals, while the Naga were transformed by the Old God N'Zoth.

    Whatever connection any Horde race might have with the Naga, it is not nearly as interesting as the clear thematic link between Naga and these two aforementioned Alliance races.

    Furthermore, this hypothetical race would be redundant in the Horde, as the Nightborne already represent the fantasy of "decadent Highborne remnant race".
    The Horde though are the continuation of the ancient Night Elf empire, between the Blood Elves who focus on magic, and the unbroken line of the Nightbourne who are that culture still.

    Night Elves are, for all intents and purposes, a completely different culture to the Night Elves of old. That's why the Nightbourne aren't on the Alliance. The Night Elves today are not the Night Elves of the past. VElves barely even factor in, they're radicals embracing weird magic.

    And, well, lets' be honest. A lot of the push for Naga as a race is going to be people remembering playing Naga in WC3, and if the Naga race is going to specifically be an enemy of Blood Elves, its gonna seem Really Weird. Like, ogres on the Alliance weird.

  3. #443
    Honestly, this seems to be the first Naga concept I can get behind. With a second "shapeshift" race being added, I can see this being alright.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Mecheon View Post
    The Horde though are the continuation of the ancient Night Elf empire, between the Blood Elves who focus on magic, and the unbroken line of the Nightbourne who are that culture still.
    On the contrary, the Alliance has the only unchanged group of Highborne from the War of the Ancients. The Highborne of Eldre'Thalas.

    The Thalassian elves are just descendants of the Highborne and the Nightborne have been mutated by Arcane magic. The Thalassian elves have also mutated and become smaller and more fair-skinned.

    The Highborne of Eldre'Thalas are the literal Highborne citizens who lived there 10000 years ago, and they haven't been mutated by anything. They are the most pure group of Ancient Highborne left on Azeroth and they serve the Alliance.
    That's why the Nightbourne aren't on the Alliance.
    They aren't on the Alliance because Tyrande was mean to them, that's the only reason why they joined the Horde.

    VElves barely even factor in, they're radicals embracing weird magic.
    Weird, weren't Blood elves in TBC introduced precisely as "radicals embracing weird magic"? They even enslaved a literal Naaru and tortured it so much that it turned into a Void naaru.

    Besides, given how the Highborne almost doomed the world by practising Fel magic, they probably wouldn't mind that too much.

    And, well, lets' be honest. A lot of the push for Naga as a race is going to be people remembering playing Naga in WC3, and if the Naga race is going to specifically be an enemy of Blood Elves, its gonna seem Really Weird. Like, ogres on the Alliance weird.
    An argument you could have made for the Blood elves in the Horde as well. The elves of Quel'Thalas were one of the main members of the Alliance armies in both WC2 and WC3, so one would have expected them to join the Alliance in WoW.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2022-10-02 at 11:24 PM.

  5. #445
    I will never let this dream die!!! I want my Naga damn it! I'd PREFER them on the Horde but I will take them however I can get them in that regard.

    I HATE the idea of having them turn goodie goodie and following Elune again. I actually might prefer we not even get them than have them be white-washed. Also not a huge fan of them turning into reskinned night elves but....

    They should remain sinister, but have some of their goals align enough with the other races of Azeroth that they will ally themselves with us (probably only temporarily in their minds).

    In my opinion, a more fitting plot would be that they rebelled and simply started following another charismatic aspiring sovereign. Preferably a male one, to mix things up and make him an exceptional character given the tendency of male naga not to take leadership roles. Similar to Azshara in being power-hungry, and ambitious... but less willing to treat his people as expendable, albeit not out of love for his people. More because he hates Azshara with a (well contained, perhaps even seemingly subdued, and properly channeled) passion, and the idea of being like Azshara sickens him. In that same vein, he also is more willing to work with the surface-dwellers both because of said desire to avoid being like the monarch he hated, but also because he recognizes his position.

    Aside from that, I actually adore the jokes and flirts. I can practically already hear them. Not sure I understand why they'd hate when a turtle makes it to the water tho...

    I also would like it better if rehydrate recovered a % value rather than a flat amount. Also, why in the world would Naga not be capable of being Warlocks? If it's that Elune BS I STFG!!!

    Also... is the Nazjassian thing intentional? Is that supposed to be a mix of Nazja and Darnassian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    On the contrary, the Alliance has the only unchanged group of Highborne from the War of the Ancients. The Highborne of Eldre'Thalas.

    The Thalassian elves are just descendants of the Highborne and the Nightborne have been mutated by Arcane magic. The Thalassian elves have also mutated and become smaller and more fair-skinned.

    The Highborne of Eldre'Thalas are the literal Highborne citizens who lived there 10000 years ago, and they haven't been mutated by anything. They are the most pure group of Ancient Highborne left on Azeroth and they serve the Alliance.


    They aren't on the Alliance because Tyrande was mean to them, that's the only reason why they joined the Horde.



    Weird, weren't Blood elves in TBC introduced precisely as "radicals embracing weird magic"? They even enslaved a literal Naaru and tortured it so much that it turned into a Void naaru.

    Besides, given how the Highborne almost doomed the world by practising Fel magic, they probably wouldn't mind that too much.



    An argument you could have made for the Blood elves in the Horde as well. The elves of Quel'Thalas were one of the main members of the Alliance armies in both WC2 and WC3, so one would have expected them to join the Alliance in WoW.
    1. The naga are themselves mutated, so they'd better relate with the Nightborne than the Night elves of Eldre'thalas. It took the Eldre'thalassians YEARS and sensing a cataclysmic even to not only decide to join their lowborn kin, but to negotiate them being allowed to rejoin said kin's society. The naga would have a way harder time being accepted, much less WANTING to be accepted. Furthermore, many of the blood elves of the Illidari rejoined the Horde. They'd be able to advocate for how reliable of allies the naga can be. That's a far more compelling connection than... an anti-connection that you WANT to lead to a forgiveness story-arch which tbh makes me queasy just thinking about. That level of cheesiness is way over-played in WoW as is. Can we please not? Part of the appeal of the naga is in how they are... well evil. Some of that should remain to keep them interesting and true to their source, not be almost entirely done away with, which is the only thing that could happen if they did something like you are suggesting. I believe they should be made somewhat like the old Forsaken and blood elves were like. Well, maybe more like the old horde Blood elves than the Forsaken since... yea. Being like the Forsaken would get them thrown back on the chopping block. Somewhere in between perhaps.

    2. I am pretty sure Thalyssra outright states one of the reasons is that she recognizes she has more in common with the blood elves. Even if not, it was definitely not just the fact that Tyrande was mean. It's that Tyrande was mean AND that Liadrin was nice. In either case, while I acknowledge the void connection between naga and Ren'dorei, they are so few in number. Their significance is questionable. I'd argue that in fact they are more set up for a rivalry. Who has a better understanding of the powers of the void? That would be tested in them being pitted against one another. Like the blood elves and Eldre'thalassians when it comes to arcane.

    3. The highborne didn't almost doom the world by practicing fel magic. They did so by just practicing a lot of arcane magic without proper precautions taken to prevent the Legion's attention being drawn to them. Come now... you should know this stuff if you are going to argue the lore basis for this sort of thing.

    4. Don't. You are opening a whole can of worms by trying to make the "Blood elves joining the horde made no sense" argument. Or else I will fight you to the DEATH over that because I have always been in the camp that blood elves joining the Alliance was never going to make sense from a narrative standpoint. Just because the HIGH ELVES helped LORDAERON and later Jaina a loyal mage of the Kirin'tor, does not mean the BLOOD ELVES would have joined Stormwind's Alliance. Not after Garithos and the events at Dalaran. Just stop.

    Naga make more sense on the Horde. End of story.

    But that being said, if they remain borderline (but of course not full on) villainous in behavior/demeanor then I don't care. As long as I get them... they can join the Aliiance despite them and the Night Elves HATING each other for all I care. I don't care if it makes no sense. Just give me the Naga as close as possible as they were portrayed behavior-wise in wc3.
    Last edited by Efcharisto; 2023-01-17 at 07:15 PM. Reason: Minor corrections.

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