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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Did it? I do not remember any RPG element from classic.

    Levelling skills is not RPG. Using a sword rather than a mace is RPG.
    Weapon skills. Leveling Skills. Talent Trees. Choosing to use a lower rank of a spell to conserve mana (like in AD&D). Having to move from point A to point B, B to C, C to D, the world feeling alive with it's own social structure where server reputation mattered, etc.

    Need i continue? there's room for both current and classic WoW. Classic WoW is more of the AD&D, slower paced higher reward, EQ MMORPG crowd. Current WoW is more for the insta gratification, seasonal, ARPG crowd with inspiration from Diablo 3.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    So how is the first part of what you said is different now? Gear soft reset on tier launch is happening for many years, nothing changed. If you want to say you were preparing for next tier previously despite the very same reset happening back then, then why it's suddenly not same thing now?

    It's literally same, new tier comes and with it new gear that obsoleted old gear and you still can be carried a tiny bit by old gear but that's about it. I simply don't understand why you think it's so different now?

    The only thing you could say that now we get torrential rains of new gear, which is true, but then what - you want to nerf gear drops amount? I don't understand.
    It has happened yes. But I did not replace Legion tier sets on the first day from WQ. So you are going to have to try harder than that because we had to try harder than that back then to get upgrades. I hardly call it soft anymore.

  3. #243
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Current WoW has more in common with D3 than it's roots in MMORPG's like Vanilla WoW or EQ1. That's fine, there's obviously a big segment of players out there who enjoy that seasonal gameplay over character development over a slow time.

    There's no need for us to attack one another, there's room for both current and classic to co-exist. They appeal to two different wow gamers
    They literally don't, you just want to say that to feel better about yourself, which is cool... sad, but cool. If this game was more D3 than WoW, I for sure wouldn't be playing. I'm the same WoW player now that I was when I started (and when I enjoyed Classic on private servers).
    Of course they can co-exist, but Classic fans have time and again proven themselves to be quite petulant.

    WoW is still an MMORPG for a fact, your subjective feels don't apply, doesn't matter how much self-absorbed tryhards want to pretend that only what they enjoy constitutes fact.
    WoW was also made fun of for being so casual and unlike MMORPGs of the time back then, yet here we are.

    In short: Get over yourselves, you're not special for liking the old whilst others enjoy the new. Plenty enjoy both as well with Classic players still being around too, not that they somehow hold some form of status, but as an example of still being attracted to this game.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2019-03-14 at 10:07 PM.
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  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    It has happened yes. But I did not replace Legion tier sets on the first day from WQ. So you are going to have to try harder than that because we had to try harder than that back then to get upgrades. I hardly call it soft anymore.
    I did not replace my Mythic Uldir gear with WQ gear??? I did replace some of it with new heroic raid gear, that's for sure, but definitely not WQ.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    They literally don't, you just want to say that to feel better about yourself, which is cool... sad, but cool. If this game was more D3 than WoW, I for sure wouldn't be playing. I'm the same WoW player now that I was when I started (and when I enjoyed Classic on private servers).
    Of course they can co-exist, but Classic fans have time and again proven themselves to be quite petulant.

    In short: Get over yourselves, you're not special for liking the old whilst others enjoy the new. Plenty enjoy both as well.
    I think you are projecting a bit. I've been very open minded about it without insulting you or anyone else.

    There's room for both to co-exist in peace. We can be fans of both.

    and yes, current wow DOES have more in common with D3 than vanilla WoW. Talent tree's? Ripped directly from D3. M+ is also basically just high end Rifts. The push for seasonal content over content meant to last long term. Personal loot. etc. There are quite a few ARPG elements rampant in today's WoW. Not all bad, but there's no need to deny they are there.

    I only see one fanbase in this thread being overly petulant and it isn't the classic fans here lobbing insults left and right while acting like BFA is the greatest expac ever.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    As many many others have said, I can’t name a single piece of gear my character is currently wearing and it’s a HUGE problem.

    Another great point which Preach didn’t address in this video (but has in the past): Titanforging also killed the DPS rankings scene which used to be a fun part of farm.
    Idk about you but I know most casters will definitely be able to name Sliver from opulence

    Can definitely still have fun pushing DPS rankings on farm for fun, take this from a Rank 1 healer DPS.



    This is clearly just a meme

  7. #247
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I think you are projecting a bit. I've been very open minded about it without insulting you or anyone else.

    There's room for both to co-exist in peace. We can be fans of both.

    and yes, current wow DOES have more in common with D3 than vanilla WoW. Talent tree's? Ripped directly from D3. M+ is also basically just high end Rifts. The push for seasonal content over content meant to last long term. Personal loot. etc. There are quite a few ARPG elements rampant in today's WoW. Not all bad, but there's no need to deny they are there.

    I only see one fanbase in this thread being overly petulant and it isn't the classic fans here lobbing insults left and right while acting like BFA is the greatest expac ever.
    Classic fans are literally in every thread telling the rest how only Classic is enjoyable whilst anything coming after it is shit tier. There's been an actual warning going out in this very thread about it.

    Open your eyes, it started after a certain server shut down. BfA being hailed as the greatest Xpack on the other hand, THAT is rare. Enjoying aspects and not enjoying other aspects =/= hailing it as great. Of course, to hatorade chuggers that might be difficult to tell.
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  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I did not replace my Mythic Uldir gear with WQ gear??? I did replace some of it with new heroic raid gear, that's for sure, but definitely not WQ.
    Also he's talking about tier so I guess it's equivalent is Azerite (?)

    Which I guess could be possible for some due to the 5th ring, however it was barely an upgrade if you did get good traits and almost immediately replaced in BoD / using residuum.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Classic fans are literally in every thread telling the rest how only Classic is enjoyable whilst anything coming after it is shit tier. There's been an actual warning going out in this very thread about it.

    Open your eyes, it started after a certain server shut down. BfA being hailed as the greatest Xpack on the other hand, THAT is rare.
    I've seen some petulant classic fans, but tbh that's just how gaming is for some reason today... i don't get it. I thought you meant in this thread, and in this thread the classic fans are basically just saying "you enjoy what you do and ill enjoy classic" and keep getting just railroaded without even fighting back.

    I enjoy classic more than current WoW, but that doesn't mean i'm gonna bash those who enjoy current. some of my good friends have no interest in classic. That's fine.

    We can all co-exist

    Ignore those loud fanboys who bash current wow players and act like classic is flawless. It is FAR from flawless, i just prefer it, and that's fine. I hope you have a good day

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I only see one fanbase in this thread being overly petulant and it isn't the classic fans here lobbing insults left and right while acting like BFA is the greatest expac ever.
    First of all keep your Classic flagellants in check. I swear there are several individuals who jump on every thread trying to shove their classic crap down our throats and often by literally making up ridiculous shit like class mechanics in Vanilla being better than BfA, which is really a ridiculous notion.

    I find it surprising to see classic aficionados being so shocked to get a pushback at that. People literally waltz in uninvited and start pushing Vanilla as some shady salesmen. People rightfully tell them to go sell their stories somewhere else.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2019-03-14 at 10:16 PM.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    First of all keep your Classic flagellants in check. I swear there are several individuals who jump on every thread trying to shove their classic crap down our throats and often by literally making up ridiculous shit like class mechanics in Vanilla being better than BfA, which is really a ridiculous notion.

    I find it surprising to see classic aficionados being so shocked to get a pushback at that. People literally waltz in uninvited and start pushing Vanilla as some shady salesman. People rightfully tell them to go sell their stories somewhere else.
    I was the person who said i enjoyed my warlock more in classic than now. That's my personal opinion. I personally enjoyed how they played more and their class identity. It's my opinion and i never claimed it was fact.

    I get why you or someone else would enjoy current Warlock, but i personally loathe the current design of lock.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I did not replace my Mythic Uldir gear with WQ gear??? I did replace some of it with new heroic raid gear, that's for sure, but definitely not WQ.
    I did. 2 outside rings trumped item level. GG.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Weapon skills. Leveling Skills. Talent Trees. Choosing to use a lower rank of a spell to conserve mana (like in AD&D). Having to move from point A to point B, B to C, C to D, the world feeling alive with it's own social structure where server reputation mattered, etc.

    Need i continue? there's room for both current and classic WoW. Classic WoW is more of the AD&D, slower paced higher reward, EQ MMORPG crowd. Current WoW is more for the insta gratification, seasonal, ARPG crowd with inspiration from Diablo 3.
    I cant agree with this. Weapon skills are a joke and not worth mentioning at all....honestly, how does anyone think this crap was an "rpg element". Talent trees still exist, just in a different format. Downranking was the result of TERRIBLE class design - they corrected this by adding a new spell that took the place of the down-ranked version.

    Current wow is a shambles, but the rose tinted glasses are out of control here.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    There are smarter people than him. You should not listen any idiot that is on you tube. His name fits his story - Preaching nostalgic bullshit that no one wants except nostalgic players. Luckily, not everyone is nostalgic.
    Learn the lesson from Wildstar, which bombed because they thought only catering to hardcore/nostalgia difficulty would work.

  15. #255
    This isn't about smart or dumb, this is about Xp in WOW and Preacher is highly Xp'd - probably more so than Asmongold. And yet, I'll be the first to admit Asmondgold is probably smarter than Preacher. The gear structure is a huge part of the problem with BFA, add in terrible class design and now you know why players are leaving in droves.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I was the person who said i enjoyed my warlock more in classic than now. That's my personal opinion. I personally enjoyed how they played more and their class identity. It's my opinion and i never claimed it was fact.

    I get why you or someone else would enjoy current Warlock, but i personally loathe the current design of lock.
    That is another story, but then you have people who say that classes were mechanically superior to BfA and this objectively is a bunch of bull. I mean, I mained a paladin and alted warlock and paladin was a disaster really when it came to gameplay, while warlock was completely binary in raids and only in PvP there was genuinely interesting, albeit basic stuff going on.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    I cant agree with this. Weapon skills are a joke and not worth mentioning at all....honestly, how does anyone think this crap was an "rpg element". Talent trees still exist, just in a different format. Downranking was the result of TERRIBLE class design - they corrected this by adding a new spell that took the place of the down-ranked version.

    Current wow is a shambles, but the rose tinted glasses are out of control here.
    Weapon skills exist in every old RPG and AD&D. It makes sense that the more you swing a particular weapon, the better at it you'll be. Otherwise, anyone could pick up a sword and be a world class fencer IRL.

    Maybe they could've streamlined them a bit in terms of trainers that you pay to take lessons from daily/weekly, but the idea behind weapon skills is essential to the basics of RPG's.

    Don't believe me? Go play any MMORPG that came out prior to WoW or play any AD&D style RPG. Weapon skills are just part of the RPG formula outside of JRPG's, and even then some characters are limited to weapon types because, you know, RPG's and all. See every elder scrolls game made as an example.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That is another story, but then you have people who say that classes were mechanically superior to BfA and this objectively is a bunch of bull. I mean, I mained a paladin and alted warlock and paladin was a disaster really when it came to gameplay, while warlock was completely binary in raids and only in PvP there was genuinely interesting, albeit basic stuff going on.
    Oh those people are insane. I personally liked warlock a lot better (even if they were a tad simple at high end) but paladin was a train wreck in vanilla. I can't sugar coat that some specs underperformed, or just plain sucked too bad to use. WoW classic has faults, but no game is perfect.

    I won't sugar coat it's faults, but i still prefer classic to current. But hey, no need to knock either fanbase. There's good people and bad in every game fanbase. Both classic and current wow are no exceptions. I honestly don't know why or when gaming became so toxic, but we're all gamers... we should be encouraging each other to wow classic/current instead of just berating one another.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    There are smarter people than him. You should not listen any idiot that is on you tube. His name fits his story - Preaching nostalgic bullshit that no one wants except nostalgic players. Luckily, not everyone is nostalgic.
    Translation: "I don't like the uncomfortable feelings his comments make me feel, so I'll wave it all away and call him something insulting."

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Weapon skills exist in every old RPG and AD&D. It makes sense that the more you swing a particular weapon, the better at it you'll be. Otherwise, anyone could pick up a sword and be a world class fencer IRL.

    Maybe they could've streamlined them a bit in terms of trainers that you pay to take lessons from daily/weekly, but the idea behind weapon skills is essential to the basics of RPG's.

    Don't believe me? Go play any MMORPG that came out prior to WoW or play any AD&D style RPG. Weapon skills are just part of the RPG formula outside of JRPG's, and even then some characters are limited to weapon types because, you know, RPG's and all. See every elder scrolls game made as an example.
    You confuse systems with role playing. D&D is held by specific system it created over the years.

    Such thing as a weapon skill, especially in context of WoW made almost no sense, because again - a seasoned warrior that took down heroic threats certainly knew how to use pretty much all the weapons. And even then the whole weapon skill acquisition was simply a case of pounding some trivial mob until you got the cap and that's it - you have it forever, it's not like it was some excruciating learning process, it really was a formality.

    Thats why I'm not even sure why you think weapon skill was such a thing you make it out to be.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadzooks View Post
    Translation: "I don't like the uncomfortable feelings his comments make me feel, so I'll wave it all away and call him something insulting."
    Yeah. I could understand dismissing it if it was someone like HeelvsBabyface who thrives on the negativity and is one of those clickbait youtubers.

    But people like Bellular and Preach are always pro-wow and very level headed. He had good points in the video i thought, and even if you didn't agree, he did it in a way that was respectful to all of WoW's fanbase. He didn't take the "looking down from the mountain top" position he so easily could have. He openly said he thinks BFA is about to turn a corner next patch and hit its stride..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    You confuse systems with role playing. D&D is held by specific system it created over the years.

    Such thing as a weapon skill, especially in context of WoW made almost no sense, because again - a seasoned warrior that took down heroic threats certainly knew how to use pretty much all the weapons. And even then the whole weapon skill acquisition was simply a case of pounding some trivial mob until you got the cap and that's it - you have it forever, it's not like it was some excruciating learning process, it really was a formality.

    Thats why I'm not even sure why you think weapon skill was such a thing you make it out to be.
    Weapon skills make sense to me as an older MMO player. The more you use a weapon type, the better at it you'll be. It doesn't matter if you've slain Sargaras single handedly with a magic staff, if you've never held a mace you won't be good with it or shouldn't be, etc.

    What they needed was a better way to streamline weapon skills, such as daily/weekly trainers so that people who respec at high end aren't punished, and those leveling up can still enjoy leveling up weapons. I know i did (even if you didn't, and that's fine bro)

    It's why swapping to new weapon types in Elder scrolls, or Fallout can remain exciting because you have to work your way up that weapons skill trees.

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