Preach on the broken gear treadmill

[Raysz]

Preach is one horrible salty hypocrite that still plays WoW because it's probably his main source of income. He feeds off of negativity.

[Razzako]

Or the opposite and you'll have way MORE than 50 % of the population ahead of you, as "non normal distribution" doesn't mean the outliers are necessarily in the upper part. You'd also would need to explain why the distribution is non-normal to begin with. And overall it would require to play dumb about what "average" means in common parlance.
Seems to me it's not my hint which is shitty, but rather the amount of grasping at straws that some guys in this thread are intend to do.

I never stated otherwise, read calmly. I also don't need to explain anything else to convey that your definition of average is wrong, non normal distribution literally means any distribution except a non normal distribution. As I said, your hint is wrong, get over it and learn to phrase yourself better - also read some statistics. Average is simply the mean in a set of numbers, not the dumb "'average' means that you're in the bracket where about 50 % are worse and 50 % are better." statement you made while trying to sound smart lmfao.

[Mightytasty]

Preach is one horrible salty hypocrite that still plays WoW because it's probably his main source of income. He feeds off of negativity.

He is one of the more positive WoW content creators. It’s not like he shits on the game like Asmongold. Even Tal & evitel have critiques of BfA.

[Soluna]

And that's totally acceptable. I don't understand this huge animosity between classic and current WoW players. If anything, we share a unique bond over WoW amongst gamers.

There's room for both current, and classic to co-exist and thrive IMHO. I don't hate BFA, but i just accept that the current direction of WoW isn't for me... it doesn't mean it's bad. Hell, i compare current WoW to Diablo 3 but i LIKE Diablo 3. I don't dislike BFA, i just wish the reward structure was a bit more.... TBC. I enjoy going from A to B, B to C, etc... not running A on 3-4 different settings until i can speed run it.

But some people do, some of my RL friends do. To each their own, and i hope people who enjoy BFA continue to. I love WOW, after all. Good and bad.

Man, you must be the first person I see who doesn't like BfA, but is not an ass about it. This feels good, as I am okay with ppl who like WoW classic also. I'd rather we both just accept that each of us have a different like and dislike over what's better for WoW, and simply shake hands, like you said. Amen brother.

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He is one of the more positive WoW content creators. It’s not like he shits on the game like Asmongold. Even Tal & evitel have critiques of BfA.

I think that Taliesin and Evitel are some of my favourite WoW content creators, because they are legit fun and they don't shit on the game like Asmongoloid or Preacheroo. Asmongold hasn't even done any proper content in BfA, he's just been carried left and right, yet he says the game isn't fun. Well tough news, if you do nothing, without a community, it's kinda hard to like the game. I won't take his opinion as legit when he hasn't tried more than 10% of what BfA has to offer really.

[Mightytasty]

Man, you must be the first person I see who doesn't like BfA, but is not an ass about it. This feels good, as I am okay with ppl who like WoW classic also. I'd rather we both just accept that each of us have a different like and dislike over what's better for WoW, and simply shake hands, like you said. Amen brother.

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I think that Taliesin and Evitel are some of my favourite WoW content creators, because they are legit fun and they don't shit on the game like Asmongoloid or Preacheroo. Asmongold hasn't even done any proper content in BfA, he's just been carried left and right, yet he says the game isn't fun. Well tough news, if you do nothing, without a community, it's kinda hard to like the game. I won't take his opinion as legit when he hasn't tried more than 10% of what BfA has to offer really.

Realize that streamers like Asmongold and Preach are more active with the WoW community than Tal & Evitel (who just started streaming), and that the majority of the community does not like BfA as much as Legion. Your critique of Asmon is strange by the way. Saying he can’t critique the game because he doesn’t play it... well why would he play content that he (and his audience) doesn’t like? He has gone on record saying that streaming actual BfA content pulls less viewers than hosting his own community events and competitions. Nobody wants to watch Islands or Warfronts lol

[Michh]

That doesn't work for Mythic guilds. They can't just pick up and go at patch drops. They have to maintain from patch to patch. If no one cares to keep playing, it's a major problem.

It is worse than ever this expac. The gear treadmill is absolutely broken. People think "i've killed it heroic, i'm done here" and log til next patch because there is NO POINT other than pride and friendship, to suffer through MONTHS of Mythic only for the gear to be trivialized next patch. Or to see someone in normal/heroic decked out in wf/tf that rivals there's, despite 1/10th the effort.

It's become a "Why bother?" moment this expac for mythic raiding, and even heroic raiding.

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That's why BFA is doing SO WELL right now, amirite?!

It's why BFA is largely voted the worst expac on EVERY SINGLE POLL on the internet, right?

It's why mythic raiding is dead this expac and can't be saved.

You probably have never even cleared a mythic raid. I doubt even a heroic.

Preach's opinion here has more value than 1000x opinions like yours. The game is dying, and it hurts us fans to see, and it's partly/mostly because of the gear treadmill being broken, no rpg mechanics left, and how WoW is basically WoW: Diablo 3 edition. It has more in common than D3 than vanilla WoW

This pretty much sums it up. I quit playing simply because of gear and what it takes to acquire it. Went deeper for me with all of the earlier azerite balancing crap that went on. I simply didn’t have enough time to continuously farm gear outside of raiding in a mythic guild. BIS pieces come from all over the place now. I know it was much simpler back when, but knowing that your BIS gear comes from high level mythic raiding was much better for someone like me.

[Sansnom]

If we consider only people leveling above 10 (which, frankly, still isn't a sign of a deep interest in the game in itself), we get a much higher retention rate, especially for early WoW.

Do we? How? Taking the 30%, that is 30 millions accounts spread over the life of WoW upto now. Why would the retention rate be higher back then? Again we do not. People are using data without the full picture.

If the remaining 70% happened in the early life of wow, then according to you, it was they was not interested.

If the remaining 70% happened later stages, would that also ring true or would others uses that indication WoW has lost its magic because it did not suffer the same retention rate?

We do not know so we should be careful how to interpret that data. People point to WoTLK as the peak and post WoTLk started the decline. Some would say that was went Blizzard started to lose their direction. Or maybe people reached max level and decided to stop because they had no interest in raiding. Even if they were, they had to find the right fit with a guild which is a hit and miss affair.

Blizzard did mentioned the raiding portion of the player was very low, single digit. Which is why we have LFR and also various difficulties today. if raiding were fine back then, we would not seen so many changes to the raiding format.

[Ange]

So bad, it started your fifteen years of playing?

Riiiiight.

I enjoy the MMO typical grind game, thats why I play this game in the first place.

You see manyf BfA players complain about the AP-grind/gear grind/rep grind/etc. - we are talking about a few hours of playtime needed, while absolutely fine with WoW classic and its grind measured in many weeks/months for basicly everything. I get the shifted view from new LEGION / BfA players who enjoyed maybe the full expansion, with every patch within 10-15 days of /played time. What is that in classic time? just fresh at max level, not even 1/3 of the time spend for pre-raid-gear while seeing basicly nothing from the game. And that was the true CASUAL part of WoW, the leveling time and the easy questing.

I just don't get the hype for classic, because the majority of complains about the current game are astronomical worse in the old grind game.

[Soluna]

Realize that streamers like Asmongold and Preach are more active with the WoW community than Tal & Evitel (who just started streaming), and that the majority of the community does not like BfA as much as Legion. Your critique of Asmon is strange by the way. Saying he can’t critique the game because he doesn’t play it... well why would he play content that he (and his audience) doesn’t like? He has gone on record saying that streaming actual BfA content pulls less viewers than hosting his own community events and competitions. Nobody wants to watch Islands or Warfronts lol

I am sorry but no one wants to watch literally any kind of new content that much. It's not like Asmon is this legendary and amazing player who viewers will swarm over for capping his m+10 for the week doing 10k dps. He is just a guy with enough time to farm everything in the game, and that has earned him some sort of acknowledgement from the community. Do you think I'd watch anyone play any kinda of WoW content outside the mythic world first race? Not really, even if the expansion was Wotlk, MoP, TBC, etc. Because rpgs are meant to be played, not watched. These fun events like transmog/mount contests will of course gain more attention.

And well, yes, you cannot make a proper review of a game unless you play it yourself. This is the reason reviewers get an early copy of the game of all kinds of games, and then make a review that is proper and constructive about the game. All Asmongold says is 'Oh look how they ruined muh boi, remember the days back then when we were doing world quests, but they were called daily quests? Remember when we were grinding for currency from dungeons, when now we grind dungeons for actual drops? Remember when raid loot used to matter? Oh wait, it does now too. Remember when patches weren't timegated? Oh wait, even as far back as wotlk, argent tournament was a daily timegate.' No matter the comparison, I think that BfA is the same as all other expansions. Sure, some classes and the gcd change, master loot change, and no gear swap in dungeons are ass, but I can think of plenty 'ass' features in vanilla, wotlk, tbc, etc.

I am not wearing muh rose tinted glasses.

[Sorshen]

The whole reward structure is flawed. They need to take a step back. Stop the epic shower. But we know they can't just do that, they worked so hard to prop up this titanforge 'engagement' bullshit excuse for a system.

[kamuimac]

I am sorry but no one wants to watch literally any kind of new content that much. It's not like Asmon is this legendary and amazing player who viewers will swarm over for capping his m+10 for the week doing 10k dps. He is just a guy with enough time to farm everything in the game, and that has earned him some sort of acknowledgement from the community. Do you think I'd watch anyone play any kinda of WoW content outside the mythic world first race? Not really, even if the expansion was Wotlk, MoP, TBC, etc. Because rpgs are meant to be played, not watched. These fun events like transmog/mount contests will of course gain more attention.

And well, yes, you cannot make a proper review of a game unless you play it yourself. This is the reason reviewers get an early copy of the game of all kinds of games, and then make a review that is proper and constructive about the game. All Asmongold says is 'Oh look how they ruined muh boi, remember the days back then when we were doing world quests, but they were called daily quests? Remember when we were grinding for currency from dungeons, when now we grind dungeons for actual drops? Remember when raid loot used to matter? Oh wait, it does now too. Remember when patches weren't timegated? Oh wait, even as far back as wotlk, argent tournament was a daily timegate.' No matter the comparison, I think that BfA is the same as all other expansions. Sure, some classes and the gcd change, master loot change, and no gear swap in dungeons are ass, but I can think of plenty 'ass' features in vanilla, wotlk, tbc, etc.

I am not wearing muh rose tinted glasses.

Hm i for example completly dont get the phenomenon of Twitch . I mean what fun is to watch someone other playing game instead playing it yourself ? The only thing i understand if they stream championships of games like LOL with nice proffesional coverage. But average / good playera like asmongoloid ? It eludes me.

[Raone]

So if your a Mythic raider, everything in the game is useless to you because Heroic/Mythic gear > all.

Aka Warlords of Draenor where all we did was log in once a week to raid then log back off because everything outside of raiding was useless

Pass ...

[tamraine]

I like how M+ is currently an avenue to pursue for gear and fun, and the hundreds of thousands of players participating in it seem to agree. His "genius" idea would immediately kill off M+.

Mythic raiding certainly had its time in WoW, but I like that there's alternatives, and I like that the game continues to evolve to suit what the gaming ecosystem prefers.

[marthawilliam]

Something tells me those are very few and far between on this forum.

[KaPe]

I enjoy the MMO typical grind game, thats why I play this game in the first place.

You see manyf BfA players complain about the AP-grind/gear grind/rep grind/etc. - we are talking about a few hours of playtime needed, while absolutely fine with WoW classic and its grind measured in many weeks/months for basicly everything. I get the shifted view from new LEGION / BfA players who enjoyed maybe the full expansion, with every patch within 10-15 days of /played time. What is that in classic time? just fresh at max level, not even 1/3 of the time spend for pre-raid-gear while seeing basicly nothing from the game. And that was the true CASUAL part of WoW, the leveling time and the easy questing.

I just don't get the hype for classic, because the majority of complains about the current game are astronomical worse in the old grind game.

You're conveniently ignoring the fact that the BFA grind is for the things you already had in the "previous" season and are exactly the same in this one. Your Azerite armor didn't get new, amazing abilities that will completely change the way your spec works - the ultimate "upgrade" is still extra 5ilvls.

You want to compare this to Vanilla? Then imagine weapon skill resetting every day and having to constantly retrain it. It'd be ridiculously pointless, but that's exactly the kind of grind we have nowadays.

So if your a Mythic raider, everything in the game is useless to you because Heroic/Mythic gear > all.

Aka Warlords of Draenor where all we did was log in once a week to raid then log back off because everything outside of raiding was useless

Pass ...

Logging every day to do the same repetitive World Quests in order to keep re-learning the same skills you had just a few months earlier is sooo much better.

[justandulas]

I like how M+ is currently an avenue to pursue for gear and fun, and the hundreds of thousands of players participating in it seem to agree. His "genius" idea would immediately kill off M+.

Mythic raiding certainly had its time in WoW, but I like that there's alternatives, and I like that the game continues to evolve to suit what the gaming ecosystem prefers.

I'm happy M+ is here for the most casual crowd to get gear too as i want everyone to have fun in WoW, but their design philosophy is incredibly broken and discouraging people from raiding in BFA.

Raiding has never been in a worse place attendance and interest wise than BFA. Big WoW streamers are having to cut off their stream and pull off more viewers by just talking.

M+ has basically deemed high end raiding as irrelevant and a monumental waste of time.

If Mythic raids had bosses, gear, and wings that were ONLY on mythic, or say, dropped the legendary of the expac ONLY on mythic... then no one would complain

But there's no incentive for a player who's cleared heroic to suffer through months of Mythic grinding/wipes other than the kindness of their heart and friendship.

My WoW guild has been raiding since vanilla, no BS. It's a tight knit group that's been together through good, bad and ugly expacs. BFA has basically killed our Mythic raid team and, even myself as the MT, stepped down because mythic raiding is just too pointless currently for the time investment.

If i raid mythic, i want to be able to show off to other players that my dude > their character, and all we have to show for it now is a different color scheme and +10 stats. Even the azerite gear is BORING because it's the same traits we've had all expac. They can't even take the time to design entirely new ones.

BFA is doing quite a bit right for the casual player, and its great they have realistic avenues to gear up on... but blizz has left the high end player and the mid tier mythic guilds high and dry in BFA. No point at all other than challenge and friendship. The rewards have never been more insignificant when it comes to high end wow raiding.

[Gaidax]

but blizz has left the high end player and the mid tier mythic guilds high and dry in BFA. No point at all other than challenge and friendship. The rewards have never been more insignificant when it comes to high end wow raiding.

Bullshit, I got my stellar raiding I am playing WoW for, for 14 years now. I'm here for the process and I get it, while still ending up with superior gear all the way up until like last month of the tier where plebs finally start to realistically catch up to my item level and quality.

Probably what you say is a thing for some 4/9 guilds and such, especially in BoD where that's around 2/9 level of any other tier.

Other than that WoW raiding was never the main avenue of the game anyway, raiders were and always are a tiny minority of WoW playerbase, they just happen to scream the loudest and make catchy videos.

[justandulas]

Bullshit, I got my stellar raiding I am playing WoW for, for 14 years now. I'm here for the process and I get it, while still ending up with superior gear all the way up until like last month of the tier where plebs finally start to realistically catch up to my item level and quality.

Probably what you say is a thing for some 4/9 guilds and such, especially in BoD where that's around 2/9 level of any other tier.

Other than that WoW raiding was never the main avenue of the game anyway, raiders were and always are a tiny minority of WoW playerbase, they just happen to scream the loudest and make catchy videos.

My entire point flew right over your head just so you can strum up your ego again in this thread. No offense, but you’re in a wow bubble and can’t or won’t see what’s happening outside of your bubble.

Mythic raiding and raiding in general WAS a big draw of WoW. It’s why I stayed all these years.

Raiding now though, has been made irrelevant and just another activity rather than the end game of the end game.

No one wants to do the same bosses on 4-5 difficulties, we want to have to beat dungeon A to get to B, B to c, etc. there’s no rpg or mmo ladder anymore and that’s a key element of the puzzle.

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Just to add to my point about how little incentive there is to raid high end in bfa...

Destiny 2 has better end game and raid rewards. Let that sink in.

Even destiny devs are smart enough to know that to keep people raiding it needs exclusive rewards. Some of the best exotic guns, weapons, bikes, ghosts, etc only drop in the raid and on higher difficulties.

Destiny 2 raids have a better reward structure than wow does currently.

Let that sink in

[justandulas]

Funny because every time I see a Preach reference here it's always 'x is shit in WoW' or 'WoW is shit because of x".

Dude be mighty negative. This is where the term 'crisis actors' should really be applied. To these 'OMG THIS SUX' youtube video creators.

I’d like for you to find a single preach video where he’s overly negative. You are confusing him for heelvsbabyface or something. Preach, bellular, and keloni are the most positive youtubers out there for wow besides the couple who seem like they are on heavy drugs

[Kaesebrezen]

If i raid mythic, i want to be able to show off to other players that my dude > their character, and all we have to show for it now is a different color scheme and +10 stats. Even the azerite gear is BORING because it's the same traits we've had all expac. They can't even take the time to design entirely new ones.

And how was Legion different in that regard to BfA? You had class specific sets.... and?

Right, there was practically only hideously numerical broken set bonuses and trinkets, esp. when used in M+. There's a reason why virtually all trinkets now split their damage between targets hit.

If you want to argue with a broken gear dreadmill, you have to argue starting when it was broken, and that was Legion. Yet people didn't leave in legion.

People are leaving because: Classes are boring, the systemw which replaced artifacts, setbonuses, and legendaries is boring, warfront and islands are mostly boring.