Page 32 of 47 FirstFirst ...
22
30
31
32
33
34
42
... LastLast
  1. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    It isnt just gear. Pets, Achievements, Mounts, Toys,... Every expansion they add so many ***** that you cant possibly be ever done with it. Everytime when i got close to collecting most of mounts boom patch with another 20 new negeneic mounts to grind in trivial content just to keep me playing and got sick of it. Legion added 120 mounts. 120!!!! Why not just add 12 super unique mounts per expansion for achieving some really challening stuff. It is impossible to keep up so why bother.
    The irony is that the more mounts/pets they add, the less i want to collect them all.

    I agree that i'd prefer less, and more QUALITY than quantity in the mount department. Problem is, the genie is already out of the bottle and there's hundreds of mounts already so unless they give mounts special abilities (like dragons having breath attacks for example) then we are stuck with this incredibly boring facebook style collect-a-mount experience.

    And the few really cool mounts they are adding in BFA, are mostly all store bought. /sigh

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    But it's not the same style nor the same direction that's just flat out wrong. Blizz seems to want to change the style of the game every expansion, reinventing the wheel every.single.time.
    And now it comes full circle.

    People complain about the doing the same thing.

    Dailies. Just WQ.

    Raids. Same old same old.

    So they to add some different, change a few things and people then come and complain about the changes. Yes, not all changes are successful.

    Damn if you do. Damn if you don't.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Because 10 years ago the gear meant something more. It was your way of separating yourself from the herd and become more. Raids used to be the only place to get the best gear, now thanks to wf/tf and m+ it’s entirely possible to build a mythic geared toon without ever stepping foot in a raid.
    That is not a problem with the game. That is your personal problem with the perceived status and ego.

    As you said, you want to be special because "you was raiding" and others could not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    But the pizza changed flavors and ingredients suddenly, hence why so many are walking away. They aren’t angry like previous expacs; they are more apathetic. Which is far more dangerous.
    You are doing it again. Trying to find a reason and someone to blame for being bored with something rather than just accepting it that you can be bored with it.

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    And now it comes full circle.

    People complain about the doing the same thing.

    Dailies. Just WQ.

    Raids. Same old same old.

    So they to add some different, change a few things and people then come and complain about the changes. Yes, not all changes are successful.

    Damn if you do. Damn if you don't.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That is not a problem with the game. That is your personal problem with the perceived status and ego.

    As you said, you want to be special because "you was raiding" and others could not.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You are doing it again. Trying to find a reason and someone to blame for being bored with something rather than just accepting it that you can be bored with it.
    If that's how you wanna view it, go ahead. Personally, i just enjoy having MMORPG elements and a ladder to climb. I like having to beat A to get to B, B to C, etc. You know, like proper RPG's.

    Old Wow had a great gear ladder to climb, but current wow feels like diablo 3 the MMO edition. Gear means nothing, and even when you get upgrades its legit just an ugpraded version of the same item you've been wearing since August of last year. That is boring AF game design, IMO.

    When you play an RPG, you're supposed to get stronger as you go not weaker as you level up and going from Legion to BFA definitely gave me a feeling of losing a TON of power. Even with the stat squish, my veng DH in legion could take an ENTIRE RAID of players from BFA without breaking a sweat.

    And yes, exclusivity IS what makes people motivated in an MMORPG. If everyone has everything, then no one is special. Period.

    It's the same reason you work to have a nice house and car IRL.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post

    You are doing it again. Trying to find a reason and someone to blame for being bored with something rather than just accepting it that you can be bored with it.
    You are assuming, again. Yes, i admit i am bored with BFA but that's because BFA is boring to me. It is, by far, my least favorite WoW expac. Not because i'm burnt out on WoW, i can't wait for wow classic, but because i don't like the direction they took with BFA.

    It has more in common with Diablo 3 than Vanilla WoW in terms of reward structures, and i like D3, but it's not what i want in an MMO

    EDIT: To give you a point about exclusivity, do you know what my most complimented items in WoW are? My spectral tiger, and my Murky pet. If EVERYONE had them, no one would give a crap about them. They are 'special' because they do stand out, which is harder and harder to do in today's WOW
    Last edited by justandulas; 2019-03-17 at 02:32 PM.

  4. #624
    Elemental Lord matheney2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    8,893
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    And now it comes full circle.

    People complain about the doing the same thing.

    Dailies. Just WQ.

    Raids. Same old same old.

    So they to add some different, change a few things and people then come and complain about the changes. Yes, not all changes are successful.

    Damn if you do. Damn if you don't.
    What are you even talking about? Who is complaining about raiding? If anything it's the only saving grace of this expansion. And if you país attention to what I said you wouldn't read where I said that they scrap good content for no reason at all, which was my complaint.

    Also pls tell me what new things they added? Island expeditions are like watered down mop scenarios and war fronts were implemented horribly only being available like once or twice a month (in their respective cycles)

  5. #625
    All this talk of WQ's.. I find it insane that this far into the expansion people still do world quests. I feel like in legion once I was exalted with everyone I didn't step foot into the world to do WQ's.
    Softbottom - Stormscale

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    What are you even talking about? Who is complaining about raiding? If anything it's the only saving grace of this expansion. And if you país attention to what I said you wouldn't read where I said that they scrap good content for no reason at all, which was my complaint.

    Also pls tell me what new things they added? Island expeditions are like watered down mop scenarios and war fronts were implemented horribly only being available like once or twice a month (in their respective cycles)
    The raids are very well designed, but the reward structures leave a lot to be desired IMO.

    Let me put it into perspective like this.... Destiny 2 currently has better rewards and raid reward structure than WoW. Destiny 2.

    It has certain exotic (WoW legendary) guns that are CRAZY OP, gear, mount, and ghost (pets) that are ONLY found in the raid off the last boss every tier, and they remain OP forever.

    When you can say Destiny 2 has better raid rewards/incentives than WoW with a straight face; it's time as WoW players we admit that WoW raiding has a problem today.

  7. #627
    Stood in the Fire pinelakias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    403
    Unfortunately, the treadmill is (almost) beyond repair, not just broken. And since Ion doesn't even try to fix it (with his constant irrational gambling/titanforging love) I don't think gearing will ever be important again. Hell, I don't even remember the names of gears from Legion, but I can still name 10-15 items from TBC (even though my memory isn't that good).
    The man in the mirror is watching. Study hard and work harder! Always be civil and care about others!

  8. #628
    Elemental Lord matheney2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    8,893
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    The raids are very well designed, but the reward structures leave a lot to be desired IMO.

    Let me put it into perspective like this.... Destiny 2 currently has better rewards and raid reward structure than WoW. Destiny 2.

    It has certain exotic (WoW legendary) guns that are CRAZY OP, gear, mount, and ghost (pets) that are ONLY found in the raid off the last boss every tier, and they remain OP forever.

    When you can say Destiny 2 has better raid rewards/incentives than WoW with a straight face; it's time as WoW players we admit that WoW raiding has a problem today.
    But I wouldn't credit that fault to raiding specifically, but rather to the overall design and structure that the game has obtained.

    I do agree with all your points though. And I'm not even here to hate on wow. I've played it for almost 15 years now on and off and I love the game. I jus find myself with a LOT hope for the next expansion as most of what I'd like to see fixed/changed won't even be looked at or approached until a new X.0 patch. The game just feels hollow atm

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Here’s another WQ whoopsie. The expansion is supposed to be about war vs the factions, but they removed the pvp wq. Daduq?
    There was 2 types of PVP WQ in legion. First, the towers. Both faction were asked to go to a different tower to kill npc, you had absolutely no reason to go to the other faction tower other then look for a fight, which you can do in any WQ. There are plenty of WQ that ask you to kill npc tag as the other faction in BFA. Second, the FFA pvp WQ, they had nothing to do with faction.

    Now BFA invasions. 5 daily that give you 60 conquests if you do them with WM on. You know the enemy also have 5 WQ in the same area. And now for real pvp WQ, there is always up to 2 quest that ask you to kill enemy faction NPC, not while the 2 factions are on the opposite side of the maps, this time, while both faction are fighting in the same area. If this don't start pvp fights, there is always that one WQ that ask both faction to gather the same resource, and with faction tagging, you actually have a good reason to get rid of the other faction player.

    So, in term of real npc, BFA incursion with WM on > Legion wannabe pvp WQ
    MMO-Champion, once the place to get WoW News, now the home of the haters and their clickbait and doomsaying threads

  10. #630
    I am Murloc! Maxrokur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Zuldazar
    Posts
    5,051
    I like the current system for alts, but gear that can match with heroic raid gear is kinda a problem and Mythic plus while more short, it's not so effective for gearing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    But I wouldn't credit that fault to raiding specifically, but rather to the overall design and structure that the game has obtained.

    I do agree with all your points though. And I'm not even here on wow. I've played it for almost 15 years now on and off and I love the game. I find myself with a LOT hope for the next expansion as most of what I'd like to see fixed/changed won't even be looked at or approached until a new X.0 patch
    I think the raids are very well designed, specifically BoD. Great boss fights. Agree with you that the raids aren't at fault, and i'm not one of those players who wanna demonize LFR or any of that for it as i WANT everyone in WoW to have a good time and LFR is good for everyone. There's plenty of WoW for all of us to be included and have a good time.

    The fault lies in the design team for failing to create a meaningful reward structure that makes the gear ladder worth the time/effort to climb.

    When i can say with a straight face that Destiny 2 has better raid incentive/reward structures than WoW... yikes
    Last edited by justandulas; 2019-03-17 at 03:15 PM.

  12. #632
    Fluffy Kitten MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    29,765
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    So they add some different, change a few things and people then come and complain about the changes. Yes, not all changes are successful.

    Damn if you do. Damn if you don't.
    There is a difference between designing an expansion as a new standalone game based on existing materials and introducing change in a way that some cohesiveness remains over the long run. I don't believe that Blizzard has learned that lesson. Many friends and game acquaintances (I come from a lot of RP servers) do not even know the toon they have been playing for years. That alone may not be important to most people but it's indicative that the approach to change with every expansion and the consequent adjustments required to learn to play your class/spec well has grown old and that many tire of this.

    I can't say that I blame them.

    Gear shares some of this in that the rewards you can expect based upon the activity that you do shift greatly from expansion to expansion and now even within an expansion. I'll reiterate my original comment that to the extent that gearing is viewed as a "treadmill" mechanism it should be deeply disturbing to the developers. Static movement without real progress is a serious problem in any game, RPG or otherwise. Character progression should never feel like a treadmill.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2019-03-17 at 06:01 PM.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    And yes, exclusivity IS what makes people motivated in an MMORPG. If everyone has everything, then no one is special. Period.
    The special one is the one who does not have anything.

  14. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Gear shares some of this in that the rewards you can expect based upon the activity that you do shift greatly from expansion to expansion and now even within an expansion. I'll reiterate my original comment that to the extent that gearing is viewed as a "treadmill" mechanism it should be deeply disturbing to the developers. Static movement without real progress is a serious problem in any game, RPG or otherwise. Character progression should never feel like a treadmill.
    The scaling and the multiple difficulties contribute to this greatly in my opinion. You get gear but you only get access to part of it in the outside world due to scaling, in PvP you get access to almost none of it. The only places that matter where you get to use the gear to its fullest is in dungeons and raids but both of these have multiple difficulties so gear only makes things easier for you if you're in the top 1% of players that are doing the hardest content, for everyone else it's an endless progression tier in and tier out. Gone are the days where you got something on farm, worked on your gear and see how much you could brute force the bosses.

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by Softbottom View Post
    All this talk of WQ's.. I find it insane that this far into the expansion people still do world quests. I feel like in legion once I was exalted with everyone I didn't step foot into the world to do WQ's.
    why ? WQ are fun easy fast activity

    not everyone has sufficient ocd to run thoudands of mythic + and islands to be both gear and ap capped.

    i for example gonna do today tortolan quests on 10 alts on horde for chance of nice 385 rings/trinkets on some unlucky toons they will hopefully replace 355 ones.

    the amount of people flooding all zones and doin WQ proves that people like this type of content.

  16. #636
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Gear shares some of this in that the rewards you can expect based upon the activity that you do shift greatly from expansion to expansion and now even within an expansion. I'll reiterate my original comment that to the extent that gearing is viewed as a "treadmill" mechanism it should be deeply disturbing to the developers. Static movement without real progress is a serious problem in any game, RPG or otherwise. Character progression should never feel like a treadmill.
    The AP grind certainly feels like a treadmill, with AK and all that. Can't be bothered to grind to 48 to unlock all my mythic +5ilvl. Why they had to copy/paste the Legion AK system but just change the optics, I don't really get. Every week you get a 30% AP decay on past effort just to keep the levels the same. I'm probably just too old and out of touch, but nothing really appeals to me about the AP system. WQs really get dull after a month or so. I wish you could graduate from that system faster earlier in a raid tier.

    During Blizzcon 2017 they talked about being able to grind out all the AP you needed at once without decay, and just decreasing costs, but it seems they went back on that

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    That doesn't work for Mythic guilds. They can't just pick up and go at patch drops. They have to maintain from patch to patch. If no one cares to keep playing, it's a major problem.

    It is worse than ever this expac. The gear treadmill is absolutely broken. People think "i've killed it heroic, i'm done here" and log til next patch because there is NO POINT other than pride and friendship, to suffer through MONTHS of Mythic only for the gear to be trivialized next patch. Or to see someone in normal/heroic decked out in wf/tf that rivals there's, despite 1/10th the effort.

    It's become a "Why bother?" moment this expac for mythic raiding, and even heroic raiding.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's why BFA is doing SO WELL right now, amirite?!

    It's why BFA is largely voted the worst expac on EVERY SINGLE POLL on the internet, right?
    Nah, that's because people are whiners and always think the current expac is the worst in history.

  18. #638
    @Embriel

    Preach made an entire video about your thread on MMO-Champion.
    I hope you have a wonderful day

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    Nah, that's because people are whiners and always think the current expac is the worst in history.
    Been a hell of a sleigh ride since tbc.

  20. #640
    Here's my thoughts on a solution.

    I’ve said it before, but to start, gear from each difficulty tier/curve should cap to a +10 item level TF. In our current landscape this would look like:

    LFR 370 - 380
    Normal 385 - 395
    Heroic 400 - 410
    Mythic 415 - 425

    When Items drop you have a chance at a WF (+5) or a TF (+10). Additionally, throughout your grind of the content you get some form of currency that you can use to upgrade baseline items up to the TF cap of +10.

    You would probably have to add some sort of scaling like Titan Residuum has depending on the content you are doing. This way you can’t farm super easy content to get the same upgrade level on gear from a higher content difficulty (Mythic raiders don’t feel the need to have to go clear LFR, Normal, Heroic, just to get upgrade currency.

    You can do this by making the currency a token that can only be used on the same quality gear or by scaling the drop rates depending on difficulty.

    LFR drops 5 currency per wing (20 per week) - LFR Token cost 20
    Normal drops 5 per boss (40 per week) - Normal Token cost 50
    Heroic drops 20 per boss (160 per week) - Heroic Token cost 200
    Mythic drops 50 per boss (400 per week) - Mythic Token cost 500

    Mythic+ Cache rewards can also provide currency.
    +5 gives 5 per week
    +10 gives 20 per week
    +15 gives 50 per week

    As you can see, you won’t get enough for an upgrade per week by only doing the 1 raid difficulty, but if you do a couple bosses of the difficulty below, you’ll have enough for a +5 item level token.

    Side note on Mythic+ Cache rewards:

    Cap at 410 - 420 Just like raid gear.

    Instead of it being super random, it would be nice to be presented with three random items and you get to pick one. The RNG won’t be completely removed nor the suspense and excitement, but you’ll also have agency in your gearing choices and hopefully walk away with something at least semi useful. Think of it like a draw three cards from the deck and choose one type of system.

    Now, I literally just brainstormed this as I’m eating my breakfast, but a system like this would be easy enough to implement.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •