Page 36 of 47 FirstFirst ...
26
34
35
36
37
38
46
... LastLast
  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    i like your example extremly much . because it fits gaming world perfecly.

    you know why ?

    because irl you dont nessesarily need to be fit or beautiful
    Exactly, that's my point. You don't need to but you'll have a definite advantage if you do. The effort matches the reward perfectly.

    If it had been in WoW it would mean that every 3-6 months the entire population would get normalized to roughly the same level of fitness and have to start working out again from scratch.

    In such a world the number of gym memberships would probably decline substantially.

  2. #702
    Whereas I agree with the fact that the gear treadmill seems to be broken, it actually surprised me that Mythic Uldir was only 385 (I only picked up this expansion a week or so before BoD release).

    However I did find one of his statements to be interesting, and potentially the reason for Blizzard attempting this seasonal approach.
    He says that he considers gear collection after having cleared your intended content (be it normal, hc or mythic) to be a chore. I realise that a key component of MMOs originally was the chore aspect of it, but as the video game market is developing Blizzard is trying to adapt/evolve alongside it and considering that BFA shipped 3.4m units on day one for a 14 year old game suggests that they have been doing something right (I'm not saying that the seasonal approach is right or wrong, time will tell).

    Preach is attributing a lot of this change to so called "Bads" who are firm in their belief that what is holding them back is the lack of ilvl, and this is where I think he is dead wrong, if Blizzard truly adjusted their design choices according to a vocal minority (One that is even barely present, I haven't noticed it at least) the game would be in complete shambles by now.
    I believe the change can be attributed to the overall climate in video games at this time where Seasons are very much en vogue, it makes games more approachable for new players as they can join their potentially more experienced friends in the thick of it right away instead of having to spend a good amount of time to get to "their level". Will this work for WoW in terms of attracting new players and is it a good approach? IMO no and no. It might make starting the game a bit easier but game is still 14 years old and attracting new players is not easy.

    There's a decent amount of dislike towards so called "casuals", but at the end of the day I think it's important to bear in mind that "casuals" is the majority of subscribers and if you don't take the majority of your playerbase into consideration when making design choices then you may well be doing something wrong.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    i like your example extremly much . because it fits gaming world perfecly.

    you know why ?

    because irl you dont nessesarily need to be fit or beautiful

    you can also be rich and rip all benefits including females swarming around you .

    it fits gaming perfecly because all other games besides WoW embraced it ages ago - proposing people 2 ways - either be hardcore gamer ( its the metaforical gym) or just buy gear / bonuses (being rich)

    only wow didnt - thats why its failing on both fronts. because of stubborn devs who refuse to accept microtransactions and embrace what they bring into game .
    Lol what? Wow is failing because it reset every 3 to 6 months it gives basically zero long term benefits gear used to not reset when the game was at it's height.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    Whereas I agree with the fact that the gear treadmill seems to be broken, it actually surprised me that Mythic Uldir was only 385 (I only picked up this expansion a week or so before BoD release).

    However I did find one of his statements to be interesting, and potentially the reason for Blizzard attempting this seasonal approach.
    He says that he considers gear collection after having cleared your intended content (be it normal, hc or mythic) to be a chore. I realise that a key component of MMOs originally was the chore aspect of it, but as the video game market is developing Blizzard is trying to adapt/evolve alongside it and considering that BFA shipped 3.4m units on day one for a 14 year old game suggests that they have been doing something right (I'm not saying that the seasonal approach is right or wrong, time will tell).

    Preach is attributing a lot of this change to so called "Bads" who are firm in their belief that what is holding them back is the lack of ilvl, and this is where I think he is dead wrong, if Blizzard truly adjusted their design choices according to a vocal minority (One that is even barely present, I haven't noticed it at least) the game would be in complete shambles by now.
    I believe the change can be attributed to the overall climate in video games at this time where Seasons are very much en vogue, it makes games more approachable for new players as they can join their potentially more experienced friends in the thick of it right away instead of having to spend a good amount of time to get to "their level". Will this work for WoW in terms of attracting new players and is it a good approach? IMO no and no. It might make starting the game a bit easier but game is still 14 years old and attracting new players is not easy.

    There's a decent amount of dislike towards so called "casuals", but at the end of the day I think it's important to bear in mind that "casuals" is the majority of subscribers and if you don't take the majority of your playerbase into consideration when making design choices then you may well be doing something wrong.
    Bads are far far far far far more numerous than actual good players still playing. There is a significant difference between bads and casuals.

  4. #704
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    4,469
    Quote Originally Posted by Lillemus View Post
    There's a decent amount of dislike towards so called "casuals", but at the end of the day I think it's important to bear in mind that "casuals" is the majority of subscribers and if you don't take the majority of your playerbase into consideration when making design choices then you may well be doing something wrong.
    I believe that one of his main points, especially in the "reading the thread" video was actually asking the very question of "do casuals truly benefit from this system?" He claims that he was being messaged by various "casual" players who aren't exactly thrilled with this new system either and I can certainly see that. Some people, however, assume that every "casual" has to love this new approach.

    There's a big difference between catchup mechanics - thus allowing people to tackle the newest content without months of grinding - and what we have now. Preach is very much for the former and even if he wasn't, he realizes it's pretty much impossible to remove it from the game at this point. There are some people who advocate this, but it's usually the "well, back in Vanilla..." types. They'll have Classic soon - and some of them are quite bitter toward retail, so their opinions are heavily biased.

    There aren't any real statistics about people truly benefitting from this system. Oh sure, we do get numbers, but it's the usual forum guesswork, with "1% Mythic raiders, 99% everyone else", which is largely meaningless. Blizzard never reveals such data, we are merely guessing and have no idea to know how it really works. It's quite possible that the % spread is completely different, with people only caring about achievements, pet battles, transmogs, PvP and so on. Unfortunately, the thread was - at times - about "these damn elitists" and "they are hurting The Casuals". We had the self-proclaimed Defenders of Casuals commenting in the same tone, completely misrepresenting Preach' points and very few actual "casuals" posting ... with (almost?) none of them explaining the true joy they (supposedly) get from this system.

    But that's how it always goes with threads about the guy. In some people's mind, he's a mythic raider = he's the enemy, regardless of what he actually says. There's no possible way his viewpoint could be anything other than elitist and that's how they're going to "discuss" it. I honestly am surprised he spent 3+ hours browsing this thread, what a waste of time.
    Last edited by KaPe; 2019-03-19 at 10:22 AM.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I dont base skill level on statistics. So I agree that if you’re dying to the same mechanics 20 times in a row (which a lot of “mythic raiders” do) then you’re pretty bad. If 99% of the playerbase do that then they are bad players.
    I think it's very funny that i have all my toons at ilvl390s without steping into instances lol feels good man!being badass ftw!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Lol what? Wow is failing because it reset every 3 to 6 months it gives basically zero long term benefits gear used to not reset when the game was at it's height.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Bads are far far far far far more numerous than actual good players still playing. There is a significant difference between bads and casuals.
    Lies i gotten 10 mage tower skins before it went away good players still around.
    Last edited by Lurker1; 2019-03-19 at 11:04 AM.

  6. #706
    Its funny how many people claim he is just doing it for that sweet sweet youtube money, considering that his videos are demonetized.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    Its funny how many people claim he is just doing it for that sweet sweet youtube money, considering that his videos are demonetized.
    but the expositon and marketing he is doin for his streams are not.

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker1 View Post
    I think it's very funny that i have all my toons at ilvl390s without steping into instances lol feels good man!being badass ftw!
    I'm in the same situation, it just doesn't feel satisfying and there's definitely no point in putting in more effort.

    All I want is for the effort to match the reward and for catch-up mechanics to only get you so far. Normal BFD should be what you catch up to so normal Uldir gear should be the level of gear I get. Getting mythic Uldir gear just feels demotivating.

  9. #709
    High Overlord ShadeknightX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    A Shady Place....
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    Its funny how many people claim he is just doing it for that sweet sweet youtube money, considering that his videos are demonetized.
    Yeah....out of curiosity, when was the last time he made that claim, the whole demonetization thing...I find it funny how conditioned some of these comebacks are....

    Last time I was following him he kept getting that issue on every video a few times, and he was only doing like 10-15 min tdp rant videos every now and then, incidentally it was near him and Ghosty splitting.

    Now he is putting in effort and time making 20-30+ min videos every few days or once a week.

    He isn't some WoW saint doing it for the greater good of wow players.....
    The first, last and only warning to get from me...Mock me once I will Backstab you...Mock me twice I will Mutilate thee....Mock me thrice I will go ******* killing spree on you......Have Fun.

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeknightX View Post
    Yeah....out of curiosity, when was the last time he made that claim, the whole demonetization thing...I find it funny how conditioned some of these comebacks are....

    Last time I was following him he kept getting that issue on every video a few times, and he was only doing like 10-15 min tdp rant videos every now and then, incidentally it was near him and Ghosty splitting.

    Now he is putting in effort and time making 20-30+ min videos every few days or once a week.

    He isn't some WoW saint doing it for the greater good of wow players.....
    He is funded entirely through patreon since his content really isn't advertiser friendly.

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    I'm in the same situation, it just doesn't feel satisfying and there's definitely no point in putting in more effort.

    All I want is for the effort to match the reward and for catch-up mechanics to only get you so far. Normal BFD should be what you catch up to so normal Uldir gear should be the level of gear I get. Getting mythic Uldir gear just feels demotivating.
    Exactly. And there is no need for a player who does heroic raiding and +10 keystones to run around in 410+ ilvl gear. It has no purpose. The player is only outgearing the content appropriate for him which makes the experience he has boring and meaningless.

  12. #712
    High Overlord ShadeknightX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    A Shady Place....
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    He is funded entirely through patreon since his content really isn't advertiser friendly.
    Well that doesn't clear up my specific question, it just adds another "Cynical" approach, pardon me...

    So you are saying that he doesn't make money of youtube, but makes money of patreons, in essence people who could and do drive the possible narrative and approach of these videos....Bus 101, keep them happy, keep the money flowing?.....isn't that a WORSE argument on his behalf

    I am sorry, but the cynical part of me, from being around so long on the internet.
    The first, last and only warning to get from me...Mock me once I will Backstab you...Mock me twice I will Mutilate thee....Mock me thrice I will go ******* killing spree on you......Have Fun.

  13. #713
    His latest video is kinda a sad reflection of the state of human kind in 2019. He makes a video discussing issues he sees with a game he's been playing for 13 years to get a conversation going and then the feedback to that is people making fun of him and throwing toxic insults, talking about how he's only doing it for XYZ reason, people diving into a "classic VS current" discussion and the few who actually get into the discussion are either defensive, toxic or answer something like "it is what it is".

    Personally I'm a bit conflicted on the topic as I think the current system has both positives and negatives. I started in TBC and honestly I was never a fan of the JP/VP system. To me, buying a piece of item from a vendor just felt like the lowest level of hype for a new piece of loot. People say RNG this RNG that but I'm still feeling a little bit of excitement before opening my weekly chest, even though in many cases it's not an upgrade. Buying a new piece of Azerite gear from the vendor.. not so much. I mean sure, an upgrade is an upgrade but it doesn't feel as "earned" to me.

    If they ever were to reintroduce VP/JP (which I don't hope for) I would definitely prefer if we used it to upgrade current loot so it was more like a titanforged (kinda like in MoP) than buying gear for it. I think WotLK was probably the worst when it came to that, I know TBC had it too, when you could buy raid equivalent gear from currency. Yes I know it wasn't every gear slot, but it was still pretty unsatisfying IMO.

  14. #714
    i would just remove the item level

  15. #715
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,781
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post


    I think he's touching on a very important subject. With how the reward structure is set up right now it means that there's really no incentive for anyone to replay the content and progress their character after seeing the content, regardless of at what level you play the game it'll all be completely reset after 3 months anyway.

    Here's how I would fix it (spoiler: it's linear):





    • Normal/Heroic dungeons are removed, only mythic and mythic+ remain. They always drop the same iLvl loot regardless of it being a +1 or a +10, HOWEVER at the start of each reset you get a number of upgrade tokens based on your highest completed key with which you can upgrade the gear you got from the previous week to heroic raid quality. For example 1-6 could award you one token, 7-9 two tokens and 10+ three tokens.
    • Remove titanforging and instead reduce the amount of loot we get from various sources in order to make the things we do get feel more meaningful. In a perfect system you'd get all the gear you want from your raid difficulty of choice a couple of weeks before the next raid comes out (on average).
    • Valor points and honor points are re-added to the game and and have a cap that should net you one piece of gear per week (two pieces if you cap out both valor and honor). Honor vendors also sell upgrade tokens that cost as much as a piece of gear, you can use those to upgrade your gear to heroic raid item levels.

    These things ensure that you have a meaningful and rewarding progression path through gear that isn't instantly invalidated when a new season starts. The base dungeon gear increases every season, that's your catch-up method to get you in to normal raiding. There is no overlap in difficulties and with titanforging gone there's no reason to start off a new season by clearing or split running a difficulty that's trivial to you because of upgrades. Normal mode raiders continue progressing normal from day one, heroic raiders continue with heroic and so on.
    This is your second thread on this topic within the last 2 months. Getting old dude, move on. I don’t get why people are still upset that people, mostly casuals, have similar gear to the hardcore players? Does it somehow affect the hardcore player base? No, not in the slightest. It actually helps, makes it way easier to gear up alts for mythic progression. So who does it actually affect?

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    I believe that one of his main points, especially in the "reading the thread" video was actually asking the very question of "do casuals truly benefit from this system?" He claims that he was being messaged by various "casual" players who aren't exactly thrilled with this new system either and I can certainly see that. Some people, however, assume that every "casual" has to love this new approach.

    There's a big difference between catchup mechanics - thus allowing people to tackle the newest content without months of grinding - and what we have now. Preach is very much for the former and even if he wasn't, he realizes it's pretty much impossible to remove it from the game at this point. There are some people who advocate this, but it's usually the "well, back in Vanilla..." types. They'll have Classic soon - and some of them are quite bitter toward retail, so their opinions are heavily biased.

    There aren't any real statistics about people truly benefitting from this system. Oh sure, we do get numbers, but it's the usual forum guesswork, with "1% Mythic raiders, 99% everyone else", which is largely meaningless. Blizzard never reveals such data, we are merely guessing and have no idea to know how it really works. It's quite possible that the % spread is completely different, with people only caring about achievements, pet battles, transmogs, PvP and so on. Unfortunately, the thread was - at times - about "these damn elitists" and "they are hurting The Casuals". We had the self-proclaimed Defenders of Casuals commenting in the same tone, completely misrepresenting Preach' points and very few actual "casuals" posting ... with (almost?) none of them explaining the true joy they (supposedly) get from this system.

    But that's how it always goes with threads about the guy. In some people's mind, he's a mythic raider = he's the enemy, regardless of what he actually says. There's no possible way his viewpoint could be anything other than elitist and that's how they're going to "discuss" it. I honestly am surprised he spent 3+ hours browsing this thread, what a waste of time.
    Just to clarify, I never meant that last paragraph as saying that casuals asked for or indeed appreciate this seasonal approach, it was more the idea that what I consider "casual" is something closer to the more average player rather than someone who exclusively (or almost) plays WoW. And as I said the current "video game meta" is very much based around seasons across a number of genres, so to me it sort of makes sense that they are trying out this seasonal approach, even though I agree with the sentiment that this is not an positive approach to a MMO.
    Personally when I leveled/geared up I was surprised at how quickly everything went and how quickly I was able to jump into Mythic+ and HC/Mythic raiding and I certainly wouldn't describe the experience as positive.
    So overall I am not disagreeing with his stance that season approach isn't good, it's more the fact that he attributes this change to a certain subsection of players which I personally believe is very much a minority (Depending on the definition of "Bads").

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    This is your second thread on this topic within the last 2 months. Getting old dude, move on. I don’t get why people are still upset that people, mostly casuals, have similar gear to the hardcore players? Does it somehow affect the hardcore player base? No, not in the slightest. It actually helps, makes it way easier to gear up alts for mythic progression. So who does it actually affect?
    I don't think of it this way myself but I know some (a lot) of people seem to view the gear the same way I would look at progress. It's the thing separating a great player from a mediocre player. For me personally, I don't mind that some casual guy who is HC raider and has only done a +10 key depleted at best has 5-10 ilvls less than me as a mythic raider who's doing higher keys in time, because for me the progress is what matters. But there's definitely people who don't care as much about mythic progress or raider.io score and they look at the ilvl and thats why they dislike how it works now.

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    This is your second thread on this topic within the last 2 months. Getting old dude, move on. I don’t get why people are still upset that people, mostly casuals, have similar gear to the hardcore players? Does it somehow affect the hardcore player base? No, not in the slightest. It actually helps, makes it way easier to gear up alts for mythic progression. So who does it actually affect?
    It's the complete opposite. Me, a CASUAL player want less high quality loot for doing almost nothing. It doesn't feel good to be rewarded with things you didn't earn.

    I couldn't give two shits about what mythic raiders are getting, I just want a reward structure for my level of play that actually makes sense.

    I don't put much effort into the game anymore, I shouldn't be over rewarded for that.

  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    It's the complete opposite. Me, a CASUAL player want less high quality loot for doing almost nothing. It doesn't feel good to be rewarded with things you didn't earn.

    I couldn't give two shits about what mythic raiders are getting, I just want a reward structure for my level of play that actually makes sense.

    I don't put much effort into the game anymore, I shouldn't be over rewarded for that.

  20. #720
    Bloodsail Admiral Redroniksre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cambridge, Ontario
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Creating exclusive rewards from mythic raiding doesnt hurt anyone except entilted 40y old dudes with 12y old mind what have 6 kids and feeling he should have everthing in the game no matter of time and effort.

    Atleast Blizzard could remove mythic items, mounts,etc.. from the game when content is absolote so it keeps its value. But whats the point of giving mythic only mount when i can solo farm hom next expanaion.

    Do you know what is most badass lokking gear with actual valu? It is mop challenge mod set + mage tower weapon skins. Do you know why? Becouse you can no longer get thos items like ever. Mythic need exclusivity. Extra mythic boss, unique set for completing mythic, unique spell animations or w/e.
    Mythic raiders already keep their unique looking tier for a year and a half/two years. Not to mention the mounts drop down to 1% drop rate so in reality they are still very rare. Things don't need to be gone from the game to be considered a rarity. And yes creating exclusive rewards can actually hurt the rest, given it takes resources and time from more widely accessible things.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •