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  1. #1

    Preach on the broken gear treadmill



    I think he's touching on a very important subject. With how the reward structure is set up right now it means that there's really no incentive for anyone to replay the content and progress their character after seeing the content, regardless of at what level you play the game it'll all be completely reset after 3 months anyway.

    Here's how I would fix it (spoiler: it's linear):





    • Normal/Heroic dungeons are removed, only mythic and mythic+ remain. They always drop the same iLvl loot regardless of it being a +1 or a +10, HOWEVER at the start of each reset you get a number of upgrade tokens based on your highest completed key with which you can upgrade the gear you got from the previous week to heroic raid quality. For example 1-6 could award you one token, 7-9 two tokens and 10+ three tokens.
    • Remove titanforging and instead reduce the amount of loot we get from various sources in order to make the things we do get feel more meaningful. In a perfect system you'd get all the gear you want from your raid difficulty of choice a couple of weeks before the next raid comes out (on average).
    • Valor points and honor points are re-added to the game and and have a cap that should net you one piece of gear per week (two pieces if you cap out both valor and honor). Honor vendors also sell upgrade tokens that cost as much as a piece of gear, you can use those to upgrade your gear to heroic raid item levels.

    These things ensure that you have a meaningful and rewarding progression path through gear that isn't instantly invalidated when a new season starts. The base dungeon gear increases every season, that's your catch-up method to get you in to normal raiding. There is no overlap in difficulties and with titanforging gone there's no reason to start off a new season by clearing or split running a difficulty that's trivial to you because of upgrades. Normal mode raiders continue progressing normal from day one, heroic raiders continue with heroic and so on.

  2. #2
    Elemental Lord OneWay's Avatar
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    There are smarter people than him. You should not listen any idiot that is on you tube. His name fits his story - Preaching nostalgic bullshit that no one wants except nostalgic players. Luckily, not everyone is nostalgic.
    "The Dark Lady chooses her champions well."

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    There are smarter people than him.
    Something tells me those are very few and far between on this forum.

  4. #4
    Brewmaster HordeFanboy's Avatar
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    Blizzard should just remove garbage unnecessary RNG and titanforge/warforge BS.
    Legion is the worst expansion
    BFA=Blizzard Failed Again
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._google_trend/

  5. #5
    Elemental Lord OneWay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskra View Post
    Something tells me those are very few and far between on this forum.
    You are absolutely correct. Which means, you have to search for them. They are not out in the open.
    "The Dark Lady chooses her champions well."

  6. #6
    Preach and other shitters like him simply make a score off unwashed massed with their "revelations" and these said masses swallow it all hook line and sinker.

  7. #7
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    With how the reward structure is set up right now it means that there's really no incentive for anyone to replay the content and progress their character after seeing the content, regardless of at what level you play the game it'll all be completely reset after 3 months anyway.
    Is that so much different than it was in the past? My alts in TBC were literally BT ready gearwise just with badge gear, only attunements kept them out. In WotLK it got even more extreme with a new currency every tier and the ability to buy raid gear with badges from 5 mans IIRC. Sure, they were always behind my main that raided all the time, but they could have still entered a raid and hold their ground. In WotLK I pug raided on something like 4 alts.

    People have made posts for the longest time how much it sucks that they cannot come back mid-x-pac and raid with their friends, because they can never catch up. Seems Blizzard listened.

    Maybe too well.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Arainie's Avatar
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    You do know that item level is already increasing linearly, do you?
    The only difference is the offset between each tier and the inclination of the slope.

    Now if we're talking power granted by item level, that's a different story.
    Now on the topic of Preach, he can be interesting to listen to sometimes but he's always trying to capitalize on anything controversial and it gets pretty tiring in the long run.

  9. #9
    I'm confused... You aay there is no point in playing after seeing the content while I'm pretty sure the main argument against TF/WF is that you are forced to replay content you've done.

    Also, what's the point in removing normal and hc dungeons? The purpose of them is this:

    Normal is done while leveling for quests and slight boost in gear.
    Heroic is there to gear for mythic.

    We could argue that hc might be redundant to have but definitely not normal.

    I personally dislike tokens... Buying gear just feels less rewarding to me even if it's essentially the same.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2019-03-14 at 10:18 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    but he's always trying to capitalize on anything controversial and it gets pretty tiring in the long run.
    That's how you get 'em youtube bucks after all. He's just one of many people with agenda stirring shit up where he can and his agenda is $$ and stirring shit up is the best way to attract masses he needs.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    Now on the topic of Preach, he can be interesting to listen to sometimes but he's always trying to capitalize on anything controversial and it gets pretty tiring in the long run.
    We've had "the topic of Preach" several times before and it always boils down to the same thing: people raging like babies at his existence for not always painting the game in flowers and rainbows. His critical discussions aren't even half of his content, yet that's the only thing people here focus on. People don't even want to take said discussions because they rather put their fingers in their ear screaming lalalala.

  12. #12
    It all comes down to preference though, I for sure enjoy the increased amount of gear but I do understand his point of view.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Is that so much different than it was in the past?
    Yes, the ilvl inflation was MUCH lower in the past, limiting the automated obsolescence of content (or preventing it in the case of Vanilla and early TBC).

  14. #14
    Good video. Preach is right.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post


    I think he's touching on a very important subject. With how the reward structure is set up right now it means that there's really no incentive for anyone to replay the content and progress their character after seeing the content, regardless of at what level you play the game it'll all be completely reset after 3 months anyway.

    Here's how I would fix it (spoiler: it's linear):





    • Normal/Heroic dungeons are removed, only mythic and mythic+ remain. They always drop the same iLvl loot regardless of it being a +1 or a +10, HOWEVER at the start of each reset you get a number of upgrade tokens based on your highest completed key with which you can upgrade the gear you got from the previous week to heroic raid quality. For example 1-6 could award you one token, 7-9 two tokens and 10+ three tokens.
    • Remove titanforging and instead reduce the amount of loot we get from various sources in order to make the things we do get feel more meaningful. In a perfect system you'd get all the gear you want from your raid difficulty of choice a couple of weeks before the next raid comes out (on average).
    • Valor points and honor points are re-added to the game and and have a cap that should net you one piece of gear per week (two pieces if you cap out both valor and honor). Honor vendors also sell upgrade tokens that cost as much as a piece of gear, you can use those to upgrade your gear to heroic raid item levels.

    These things ensure that you have a meaningful and rewarding progression path through gear that isn't instantly invalidated when a new season starts. The base dungeon gear increases every season, that's your catch-up method to get you in to normal raiding. There is no overlap in difficulties and with titanforging gone there's no reason to start off a new season by clearing or split running a difficulty that's trivial to you because of upgrades. Normal mode raiders continue progressing normal from day one, heroic raiders continue with heroic and so on.
    watched it this morning . typical whining that "mythic gear isnt special enough" with slight hints/questions whether casual players are ok with current gear model.

    answear is - yes they are because they can now say "screw you elitest a...holes" and just do casual content while being nicely rewarded for it.

    and this hurts people like Preach the most - that the whole concept of "players should aspire to be better" got shattered into milion pieces.

  16. #16
    Cant you use your own brain? Why do people need others to think for them?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    That's how you get 'em youtube bucks after all. He's just one of many people with agenda stirring shit up where he can and his agenda is $$ and stirring shit up is the best way to attract masses he needs.
    He's completely demonetised

    Anyway, he's not wrong. Gearing is fundamentally flawed as it stands
    Last edited by Th3Scourge; 2019-03-14 at 12:14 PM.

  18. #18
    I watched his video yesterday and quit a few weeks back mostly for that reason. There’s less incentive to mythic raid than ever considering heroic gear Wf/tf, word bosses, m+, etc have all rendered mythic raiding pretty much useless.

    On top of that, the gear treadmill has never meant less. Can anyone honestly name a single piece of gear this expac, what it’s stats are and where they got it? Gear is nothing but static numbers to be replaced vs gear you remember for life from earlier in wows life.

    There’s also very little to no agency over your character. No choices matter. There’s no rpg elements left in this mmo RPG. It has become an mmo ARPG with more in common with diablo 3 than wow vanilla or Everquest (it’s roots). The game was better when you had to beat A to get to B, B to C, etc. now, every patch makes everything step A with different difficulties that don’t really matter because, again, mythic raiding has been devalued to such an extreme by M+

    He is right. It’s the lack of rpg, the meaningless of gear, and how bad the gear ladder is now that has ran people away.

  19. #19
    The incentive to replay content is because you think playing the game is fun. If you do not think that doing the activity is enjoyable, it is silly to do it over and over again. Spend your free time doing something you actually enjoy.
    Felpooti - DH - Echo Isles
    Hack - Warrior - Echo Isles
    Pootie - Hunter - Echo Isles

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooti View Post
    The incentive to replay content is because you think playing the game is fun. If you do not think that doing the activity is enjoyable, it is silly to do it over and over again. Spend your free time doing something you actually enjoy.
    That doesn't work for Mythic guilds. They can't just pick up and go at patch drops. They have to maintain from patch to patch. If no one cares to keep playing, it's a major problem.

    It is worse than ever this expac. The gear treadmill is absolutely broken. People think "i've killed it heroic, i'm done here" and log til next patch because there is NO POINT other than pride and friendship, to suffer through MONTHS of Mythic only for the gear to be trivialized next patch. Or to see someone in normal/heroic decked out in wf/tf that rivals there's, despite 1/10th the effort.

    It's become a "Why bother?" moment this expac for mythic raiding, and even heroic raiding.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    watched it this morning . typical whining that "mythic gear isnt special enough" with slight hints/questions whether casual players are ok with current gear model.

    answear is - yes they are because they can now say "screw you elitest a...holes" and just do casual content while being nicely rewarded for it.

    and this hurts people like Preach the most - that the whole concept of "players should aspire to be better" got shattered into milion pieces.
    That's why BFA is doing SO WELL right now, amirite?!

    It's why BFA is largely voted the worst expac on EVERY SINGLE POLL on the internet, right?

    It's why mythic raiding is dead this expac and can't be saved.

    You probably have never even cleared a mythic raid. I doubt even a heroic.

    Preach's opinion here has more value than 1000x opinions like yours. The game is dying, and it hurts us fans to see, and it's partly/mostly because of the gear treadmill being broken, no rpg mechanics left, and how WoW is basically WoW: Diablo 3 edition. It has more in common than D3 than vanilla WoW

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