Preach on the broken gear treadmill

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

You didn't. But you are specifically replying to a comment where I quoted a person who did.

So why are you even replying? You aren't commenting on the thread in question at all. You're directly derailing and it's actually pathetic you don't get moderated.


Here - since you won't stop spamming this thread with bullshit that has nothing to do with it. I'll try to spell it out for you in a way that a 3 yr old could understand.

Game is in a horrendous state and has been for quite some time. It is clear that these design choices are set in stone - they're bad for the game. My argument is that the only way to change this course is to fire the lead designer and his underlings. His arrogance is part of the reason the game sucks right now. His inability to listen to feedback because he thinks his shit doesn't stink. I "insulted" Ion and his arrogance because it had to do with the thread in question. The Fanboys insulting Preach in this thread are not doing so to support any sort of argument - they're specifically doing so because they can't refute his argument. Grasping it yet?

Now fuck off and stop spamming this thread with BULLSHIT from another thread.

Your excuses for your terrible behavior is tiring at this point. You don't even try to get better. You put insult in quotation marks because you don't don't even see yourself insulting people. I'm not mad just disappointed.

[Yunaqt]

Stop trying to claim I said that a WQ hero can attain a FULL SET of Mythic gear. I didn't say that - anywhere.

They shouldn't be able to attain any items that are of Mythic level. They didn't do the difficulty of content required to attain them so why should they ever get them?

It's pretty simple isn't it. Real world doesn't reward mediocrity. Neither does any other MMO I can think of.

I was being facetious with my first sentence, purely just jesting.

If that's how you feel sure, personally it doesn't phase me that there maybe someone running around in crap gear with some random 0.001% chance 425 WQ item equipped. Gearing in general doesn't annoy me as much as it did in Legion, it feels more that the best gear & easiest way to get there is again Mythic raiding. While gearing has never been one of my key motivators for why I raid Mythic it does feel better to have that as my key avenue for it with TFing reduced to a cap of 10 instead of 15 and not having to deal with it on Tier / Azerite and having to fish for old raid shit.

[TheVaryag]

I do agree with Preach for the most part truly.

However, your Ideas to remove Normal and heroic dungeons and keeping mythic and mythic+ Is obsurd and bad for the game If that will be the case. Why not just remove that which has not been here for too long, Mythic and Mythic+ and keep Normal and Heroic and keep heroics relevant for grinding Badges/Valor points as people used to, despite being vastly overgeared that had people go Into heroics and even older raids which also might cooincide with helping a guildie or a friend to the Dungeon/Raid and therefore you both benefit.

Now that's not say Mythic+ Is a bad Idea, I like the affinities or whatever you call them that you'd get per Keystone. However, I don't like being timestopped on my performence as well as getting actual gear that Increases my ilevel. Fine, get a bit of Artifact Power but that's It. And towards the end of the Mythic+ you get currency to spend on COSMETIC Items, like, essentially Challange Modes was in WoD but without a timer perhaps.

Just that example alone tells you how they've already had systems In place that worked relatively well In comparison to Legion and BfA's way of doing things. Their problem Is they try to reinvent the wheel each time as they're never 110 % happy with their current wheel of systems.

Removing Titanforging Is absolutely a good Idea, reducing the amount of loot and loot SCOURCES Importantly Is going to help. AND I'll add ontop of that, stop making WoW patches and a WoW expansion cut up Into Seasons. WoW Is not seasonal, that's for Fortnite and shit like that. There's already the problem of gear resetting each xpansion and becoming obsolete but now they've made this problem WORSE by having the gear you've grinded for weeks to then reset In a few weeks again and then grind for a few weeks again and-...you see how dumb this Is? Every 3-5 months or whoever often they reset. Ontop of that, PvP seasons are shorter, bad Idea. Less time for people, especially hardcore pvpers who have limited time to dive into the ladders and do their ladder climbing. This isn't Overwatch, 2-3 months dont cut It In my opinion.

However, I will add upon your last point and suggest for BADGES of two kinds and Honor + Conquest to be re-added as currency with vendors to help you catch up If you didn't happen to get boots, rings and a trinket during your dungeon/raids. And doing this shitty "Fill bar per week" Idea for PvP Is REALLY BAD. We didn't have gear in Legion to begin with for PvPing we just trusted Blizz with Stat Templates that for all we know they use to this day and just don't tell us. If in BfA we could keep constantly filling the bars until we get all of the gear that'd be great, without the stupid need to have It filled up and have you wait for the next weekly reset. If someone CAN get ahead, they should. NOT EVERYBODY SHOULD BE ON EQUAL GROUNDS PROGRESION WISE BLIZZARD.

Imean If I spent a year of grinding the expansion out, getting all sorts of gear, achivements and stuff, I should feel proud. And Instead I detest anyone else because they played for a month and caught up to my level of progression because of catch up mechanics... BULL...SHIP... I mean sure, catch up mechanics aren't BAD but only when used at the last quarter of the Expansion's lifespan, but RIGHT AT THE START.

I feel like Blizzard should stop, sit down and reevaluate what World of Warcraft Is and while on that, look at other MMOs that are about to overtake them and consider what they could use In their own game from those games. (Mostly being Final Fantasy 14, Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2). I love the game, so despite me going to other MMOs I will return Innevitably I know I will, but I won't stay long If you don't fix your shiz, Blizz.

[Azerate]

Ok, so here's the thing:

Preach's logic is sound and I can totally see how he and many other people feel that way, assuming those are people for whom the only WoW that exists is the current patch pve progression. Yes, if your only goal is to complete a chunk of the current raid, then you do that, complete the raid a couple more times for some additional wf/tf and you are done until the next patch.

For me the game is so much more, and I welcome the situation when I don't have to play the raid anymore. For the last month or so of every tier I can commit to mount/pet/toy/mog/achievement hunting, or in other words I can dedicate those couple hours more weekly to it instead of spending it in the raid and m+.

As for the gear, I see mostly positives in the current system, and Preach actually agrees with that too. Back in the day it was a major thing when people thought that just getting better gear will make them succeed and be good. Now, these people have similar gear and are still not very good, which kind of teaches them a lesson. Those who want to improve, will improve, those who don't - won't.

Yes, you could argue that it's weird for even the mythic gear to be replaced right after the next tier is released, but what would be the solution to that? Because in my opinion it would be increasing the gap in ilvl, not decreasing it, as most people who talk about this issue suggest.

My personal take... after returning in Legion I am a casual player, at least when it comes to the current tier pve content and I enjoy doing not that hardcore stuff and getting awards. I enjoy getting wf/tf. Sure, I throw this away after the next tier launches, but it doesn't detract from my overall enjoyment.

[Kokolums]

Mattered at all* the landscape is not what it was in 2004.

Nonsense. I have yet to see gamers change in 40 years. Gamers in the 1970s wanted the exact same things they do today.

[Yunaqt]

Does raider-io phase you?

Why did the community have to come up with a whole different system to gauge a players skill. A fucking mod had to be developed.

Before you could just look at the level of someones gear and you knew if they were a decent player or not. There was still the problem of bad players getting carried. But they were few and far between.

Not really no, I like it. Even if gearing did continue to show a larger disparity based on the content you're doing.

The reason for this is even now some mythic players are very average in dungeons. Lack the experience or whatever of the dungeons basically like taking someone who's farmed the first half of the instance on Mythic so has great gear and throwing them at Jaina which may be out of their league currently. Or recruits that're geared and seem good on paper but in practice are extremely average and fail their guild trials.

Raider.io helps just a bit more guidance when forming a group, if your intentions are to complete 15+'s in time or whatever. Perfect? No of course not, but it's a nice tool to use as long as you know how.

This the problem this gearing system has created. On top of there being no clear progression path and the trivializing of previous content.

I see this a bit, interesting some feel this way but each to their own. I've felt this has been the case since forever outside the small anomalies; Shard of Woe, Coverage of fates or whatever. As soon as the new raids released I replace my previous raid gear asap and render that tier obsolete.

I couldn't stand it if M G'huun for example happened to drop the BiS caster trinket or something, so we needed to continue to sneak time in to go kill him still for our dps. I had to do something of a similar effect in Legion, Needing to farm T19 for WF/TFing as it was vastly superior for T20, it just felt shit.

I still have PTSD of finishing the Legion expansion without Anger of the Half Giants on my Havoc DH. My BiS legendary. What a horrible gearing system. Now I just don't play anymore.

Agreed, the start of the expac was disgusting for legendaries. Thank F--- when I rerolled in Antorus I got my BiS 2 as my absolute last 2 it was much, much easier to get them. But was still frustrating none the less.

[Mightytasty]

Except LFR loot is 15 ilvl behind Mythic loot of the previous tier.

Uldir LFR = 340, Normal = 355, Heroic = 370, Mythic = 385
BoD LFR = 370, Normal = 385, Heroic = 400, Mythic = 415

Math is hard.

Warfront gear is once every ~3 weeks for a single guaranteed random slot ilvl 400 piece. And while that's higher ilvl than Mythic of the previous tier, it's not frequent enough to meaningfully impact gear for someone who progresses in Mythic raiding. It will for someone who only does normal. But you're not talking about normal raiders. You're talking about mythic raiders. Which means your post is so hyperbolic it's actually dishonest.

Titanforge bruh. Not hard to get a x3 proc. Math is hard.

[Yunaqt]

Titanforge bruh. Not hard to get a x3 proc. Math is hard.

Please direct me to the god I need to pray to in order to receive this not hard to get triple proc.

Thank you.

[Nightstalker]

Titanforge bruh. Not hard to get a x3 proc. Math is hard.

If it is the same factor as in Legion you are looking at a 6,4% chance to get a 3x proc and that also counts for 2xWF+socket/tertiary or 1xWF+socket+tertiary. If I get a large enough sample size this xpac I will can check for changes. Some say it's higher than in Legion, some say lower but that is just human perception aka useless beyond compare.

[Casperite]

We've had "the topic of Preach" several times before and it always boils down to the same thing: people raging like babies at his existence for not always painting the game in flowers and rainbows. His critical discussions aren't even half of his content, yet that's the only thing people here focus on. People don't even want to take said discussions because they rather put their fingers in their ear screaming lalalala.

So you prefer the people that get all pissy because not everyone thinks the sky is falling like they run around screaming? People thinking the game is good makes sense on a forum that is dedicated to that game. What doesn't make sense is the people on these forums that seem to hate the game.

[Elias01]

Gear was horrifically structured in vanilla and most classes were terribly broken in vanilla. Yet subs just went crazy high. That's because neither of those things matter AT ALL.

No it wasnt. Itemization was yes but structure wasnt at all.

[Oneirophobia]

Normal/Heroic dungeons are removed, only mythic and mythic+ remain.

Can you imagine leveling but there aren't any dungeons until max level?

This is an idea for what would be GOOD for the game..?

[Flutterguy]

No it wasnt. Itemization was yes but structure wasnt at all.

The structure, however, became a giant mess in BC because they had issues with guild poaching due to needing to do old content to gear for current content.

[Mightytasty]

Please direct me to the god I need to pray to in order to receive this not hard to get triple proc.

Thank you.

The worse of a player you are, the higher the chance to proc. Hence, the invention of raider.io

Edit: Even with x1 titanforge it’s only 10iLvls lower than the previous tier’s mythic and 5 higher than heroic. For LFR. That’s nuts lol

[Elias01]

This discussion boils down to two sides. One side agrees with Preach. This is the side that cares about the gear other people are wearing and are upset if the relative difference is reduced like it has been in Legion and BfA. This is the extremely vocal minority of hyper active players and they often say things like, "they're shit!" when talking about the skill of others like Preach did in this video. Then there's the other side. That side is happy to have progression even if it's time gated by warfront turnovers and emissary quests. They don't care how self important mythic raiders think they are. To them gearing is a means to an end not a measurement of the size of one's genitals. They never deluded themselves to believe that the progression treadmill was ever anything more than what it is and they play because they enjoy it and not to derive a sense of self worth from video game accomplishments. I laugh at lot at the former group, most because when I was younger I was actually in that group and believed a lot of similar things.

And it was time and time again proven to be wrong. Yes ofc you will havr players loving current gearing but we talking about bittom 5% of casual audience. Players what log in for 30 minutes and quit and actualy dont even like playing mmo game. Than ofc you have 1% of hardcore players what also enjoys this type of system. Buuuut rest of core playerbase. This is what happens when you cutter game to lowest common dominator. You end up allienating your core audience. How can anyone like this system? Have you guys even played past 2 or 3 months? Game is absolute ghost town. Go and try play on 2k vannila server. Game feels far more populated and alive than any of high populated realm on retail.

[TrickNasty]

Every single thread on MMO-Champ:

1. Op main point
2. Agree/disagree
3. 57 pages of bickering about what is and is not a valid argument.
4. Thread either dies off or locked due to fighting.

Regardless of anyone’s opinion of Preach, he makes a valid point. Higher end gear is entirely too easy to get. Long gone are the days when you see a Prot warrior or a Prot Paladin with the Bulwark of Azzinoth. I think it’s that feeling of stature, even if it at some points became a bit of a “member” measuring contest that people yearn for. Something, anything, to strive for.

[arkanon]

I personally enjoy the slower paced, more old school MMO style of classic WoW. I understand why people like current though, and promote it. I feel like there's room to co-exist.

It's just personal preference. There isn't a right or wrong here, imo.

My only narrative is that i enjoy the older style more, but i encourage those who enjoy the current style to keep on loving it. We can agree to disagree, and that's ok. I'm off now though, so, i hope you have a good night.

i am interested in what EXACTLY you enjoyed about the weapon skill? When you swapped weapons, did you enjoy standing still auto attacking the same mob until it was max level? Did you feel that added to your game experience?

[Elias01]

The structure, however, became a giant mess in BC because they had issues with guild poaching due to needing to do old content to gear for current content.

You talking about 1% of playera wht actualy guild hop and were accepted by new guild. In most casea if you quit your guild and try to hop into another it would ruin your reputation on realm. Also this is absolutly ok and healthy aspect of mmo game becouse it creates social dynamic between players.

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i am interested in what EXACTLY you enjoyed about the weapon skill? When you swapped weapons, did you enjoy standing still auto attacking the same mob until it was max level? Did you feel that added to your game experience?

It added to immersion and rpg aspect of the game. You k ow not everything in the game supostu be enjoyable. Some aspects has to be annoying, tedius, grindy, boring or challenging. Becouse in grand scheme of things it is exactly those aspects what add and create things you will end up enjoying. Traveling to dungeon on foot is time consuming you actuly dont enjoy it but what if during that time happens something wht you will end up enjoying. Maybe you will find new friend/guild. Etc. Thats why so many players have absolutly no clue how different aspecta even those annoying are so immportant for the game. And it kinda make sense that your char will be less experienced with new type of weapon just like you would in rl.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I am curious why he doesn't post on here himself?

Probably because the thread will have two basic camps.

Camp 1: Give me your dick you are right about everything.
Camp 2: Just in case you were confused, I am a giant dick and will try to get e-fame here and now.

[arkanon]

You talking about 1% of playera wht actualy guild hop and were accepted by new guild. In most casea if you quit your guild and try to hop into another it would ruin your reputation on realm. Also this is absolutly ok and healthy aspect of mmo game becouse it creates social dynamic between players.

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It added to immersion and rpg aspect of the game. You k ow not everything in the game supostu be enjoyable. Some aspects has to be annoying, tedius, grindy, boring or challenging. Becouse in grand scheme of things it is exactly those aspects what add and create things you will end up enjoying. Traveling to dungeon on foot is time consuming you actuly dont enjoy it but what if during that time happens something wht you will end up enjoying. Maybe you will find new friend/guild. Etc. Thats why so many players have absolutly no clue how different aspecta even those annoying are so immportant for the game. And it kinda make sense that your char will be less experienced with new type of weapon just like you would in rl.

So just to be clear, one more time, you found weapon skills "immersive" because you have you right click a mob once, and then afk while it auto attacked for an hour, while you watched tv in the other room. This is immersion to you?

So far from reality it is obvious how thick those roses tinted glasses are.