Preach on the broken gear treadmill

[Emerald Archer]

Well that's cuz that dude is spam reforging for some reason. And every single mythic guild I have ever been in provided guild repairs, if not free food and cauldrons at times. 10k gold a night is just absurd.

You realise pots are like 500g a piece right? 40 wipes on a prog night is relatively normal, so even if you aren't hitting the point where you use your 2nd pot, that's 40 pots.

500g per pot x40, that's 20k for a single raids night. 40k if you're progging on a boss that see's both pot uses somewhat early in the fight.

If I was to buy the mats now, for 20 pots i'm looking at 160 sirens, going about 4k on my server, and then riverbudx200 which is anywhere between 5k and 10k.

So lets assume bare minimum, that's 9k, that'll get maybe 10 procs on average. Just spent 9k on 30 pots, still need 10 more for a single night of single pot wipes.

[MoanaLisa]

I don't worry about if other players deserve gear, nor did I mention anything like that. Having gear just fly at people for little to no effort starts to degrade the system though, that I do care about. As people realize they don't have to do content to get rewards the entire thing starts to fall apart.

Just riffing on the topic more than responding to anyone directly. Apologies if you took it that way.

I'm aware that this is a minority position but I will still hold firm that if you are raiding only for the rewards you may not be doing it for the right reasons. The reason to raid, old-school as I think this may be, is that you like doing it and appreciate the self-knowledge that you are one of the few that can successfully bring down the most difficult content in the PVE game. You do the content because that's the content you want to do and you enjoy the difficulty and teamwork required to bring it down successfully. The gear reward is mostly about being able to move on to the next round of content. Blizzard has decided that they want everyone to have that opportunity to be at the very least "gear-qualified". I don't know that I think that is a bad business decision. YMMV.

[Chillside]

Well that's cuz that dude is spam reforging for some reason. And every single mythic guild I have ever been in provided guild repairs, if not free food and cauldrons at times. 10k gold a night is just absurd.

Yea, that guy probably keeps reforging, which we might argue that he absolutely has to, because there's alot of diversity in boss mechanics, all the way from heavy aoe to almost 100% single target, some classes absolutely have to have second set of azerite pieces in order to not get benched, or.. again, keep reforging, to stay being a relevant part of the group for the progression.
About repairs, not really, you usually get certain amount of gold available for repairs from the gbank DAILY, which gets burnt through within 5 wipes or something.
Didn't have to mention cauldrons, because i excluded flasks, pots, tomes and food ( for most raiders pots aren't excluded though, because: 1. they cba farming herbs 2. they don't have a character with alchemy )

It's not an absurd, as i said, it could very well go higher, much higher than 10k

[yetgdhfgh]

The game is over 14 years old

What honestly do you want?

Do you really get that same dopamine hit to the brain you used to get when that pair of bracers dropped and you had enough DKP to buy them?

Cant you see it?

[Alvito]

Just riffing on the topic more than responding to anyone directly. Apologies if you took it that way.

I'm aware that this is a minority position but I will still hold firm that if you are raiding only for the rewards you may not be doing it for the right reasons. The reason to raid, old-school as I think this may be, is that you like doing it and appreciate the self-knowledge that you are one of the few that can successfully bring down the most difficult content in the PVE game. You do the content because that's the content you want to do and you enjoy the difficulty and teamwork required to bring it down successfully. The gear reward is mostly about being able to move on to the next round of content. Blizzard has decided that they want all to have that opportunity to be at the very least "gear-qualified". I don't know that I think that is a bad business decision. YMMV.

I absolutely agree that you shouldn't be going just for goodies. Unfortunately that is why some do it and as the rewards go away so does the desire to do it for all to various degrees. Now the costs to raid is as high as it has ever been at the same time the rewards for it are dropping or being normalized by outside sources. It is going to get worse in the up coming weeks too as more and more people have bought at least 1 415 azerite piece in each slot. While gear shouldn't be the only reason you raid, it certainly isn't fun when boss after boss you need nothing or never wanted a thing. We also have a big group of players that out gear the content they can do leaving them in this lurch where they can't progress and can't really get rewards any longer. This started really taking off in Legion and has grown worse in BfA. It is rather easy to get to 400~ and for people that struggle in raids or cannot do mythic + or anything close to a 10 or higher they are left in this content limbo.

[Chillside]

The game is over 14 years old

What honestly do you want?

Do you really get that same dopamine hit to the brain you used to get when that pair of bracers dropped and you had enough DKP to buy them?

Cant you see it?

mdma can fix that

[Playintrafic]

Gearing is fucking busted. I have 2 alts that are 407 and 410 that haven't cleared past Conclave in heroic. Heroic raids drop 400. I shouldn't be able to out gear heroic raids without doing mythic raids. I shouldn't even be able to hit 400 without actually clearing at least to jaina, if not having a meaningful drop on jaina.

As it stands, I don't even play my alts unless a healer doesn't show up, and then I play my healer.

[Alkizon]

I'm aware that this is a minority position but I will still hold firm that if you are raiding only for the rewards you may not be doing it for the right reasons.

Why does everyone like to indulge in exclusive of mutually independent variables? Why no one wants to admit that rarely anyone has only one reason for committing an action, and not a complex of such equally weighty ones?

[yetgdhfgh]

mdma can fix that

Nah i think Oxycontin or Vicodin

Ironically enough me being high on painkillers made WoW so much more pleasurable but my fucking doctor is shit scared to perscribe that shit now even though i have massive pain.

Fuck the nanny state but thats for another thread

[Ophenia]

Oh, Preach has said something, I have to watch this in order to be able to form my own opinion

[Chillside]

Nah i think Oxycontin or Vicodin

Ironically enough me being high on painkillers made WoW so much more pleasurable but my fucking doctor is shit scared to perscribe that shit now even though i have massive pain.

Fuck the nanny state but thats for another thread

lmao, red wine usually works for me tbh, not too much though, just enough to give you that buzz and then you keep sipping on it - perfect for progression nights

[Gaidax]

He said it cost 10k a night to be a mythic raider. Now I know it's been a couple years since I was myself a mythic raider, but I find that extremely hard to believe.

Could anybody here 6+ mythic confirm/deny?

Guild provides flasks, Vantus, repairs and food paid for by boosting. Only things I buy is runes, pots are crafted with mats, so I buy mats.

We also don’t exactly pop pots when we progress until mechanics are in place.

And we’re not exactly bleeding edge here, like 300th on average every tier. Pretty sure stronger guild provide that as well.

10k? Maybe. But honestly 10k is nothing nowadays anyway.

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Let’s assume you are 100% correct and I am 100% wrong. Even take titanforging out of the equation. Normal mode gear replacing mythic with a 30iLvl jump is ridiculous.

Normal mode gear does not replace Mythic gear, Heroic does - normal is a sidegrade aside from specific exceptions.

[yetgdhfgh]

lmao, red wine usually works for me tbh, not too much though, just enough to give you that buzz and then you keep sipping on it - perfect for progression nights

Booze for raid nights, Painkillers for farming LMAO

[Alvito]

Why does everyone like to indulge in exclusive of mutually independent variables? Why no one wants to admit that rarely anyone has only one reason for committing an action, and not a complex of such equally weighty ones?

In some ways that is what Blizzard got most right in Legion. Multiple rewards and reasons to do content. Many of the rewards were small, but it was enough for people from all walks of the game to do them. You can look at the warden tower WQ as a great example. It offered honor, which progressed your wpn via AP at levels, progression towards, weapon skins, pets, toys, mounts and titles. All while giving you whatever the actual WQ reward was. Now rewards are split up in so many ways you are picking and choosing one or the other too often and it weakens the system.

[Ishayu]

There are those that consider the intricacies of a boss fight as content. They are not wrong in doing so. It may not be your cup of tea but the matter of what is and what isn't counted as content is not a purely objective thing and you personally don't get to decide that for everyone else.

It is my cup of tea - I'm currently sitting on 7/9M as raid leader, main tank, and guild officer, and I'm well on my way to Mythic Jaina.

It's not content any more than M+ 19 is new content as compared to M+ 18. It's something to do in the sense that it's a personal challenge, but there is no new art, no new story, no new locations, no meaningful reward, no NPC's will recognise your accomplishment, nothing in the world changes, there are no quests to go and do it. If you think just adding the mechanic "Gathering Blizzard" qualifies as content, then that's technically true, but only in such a literal and narrow sense that it's a joke, frankly.

[Mightytasty]

He said it cost 10k a night to be a mythic raider. Now I know it's been a couple years since I was myself a mythic raider, but I find that extremely hard to believe.

Could anybody here 6+ mythic confirm/deny?

Just add up the price of flasks+runes+potions+food and you have your answer. Anecdotally I can say that potions seem far more expensive in BFA than I can ever remember.

I know World 100 guilds spend millions of gold trying to cheese the awful personal loot system. I think Method spent more gold on this tier than any other tier in history.

[Gaidax]

Just add up the price of flasks+runes+potions+food and you have your answer. Anecdotally I can say that potions seem far more expensive in BFA than I can ever remember.

I know World 100 guilds spend millions of gold trying to cheese the awful personal loot system. I think Method spent more gold on this tier than any other tier in history.

Realistically it’s only potions and runes, rest is covered. As a flipside, every tier end I get a refund from a guild based on boosting we do or various guild challenges. For example I got 400k on launch due to scoring high on several guild contests that rewarded your level of preparedness for raid.

End of Uldir I and everyone else got 150k shared due to boost revenues, rest goes to free flasks, food, vantus and repairs.

Said top 100 guilds operate same way, simply because of boosting revenues covering everything.

[Emerald Archer]

And why are you potting on progression pulls? Normally you only begin to pot when the kill is actually in sight (aka not wiping @80% constantly). Wiping at that point is almost always due to mechanics failures and not the lack of 1-3% extra raid dps. Good mythic guilds will know this so I do not accept that point either.

This is a joke right? Mythic Jaina for example, early in prog you wanted to push dps and phase before the 3rd ring. Eventually you got enough gear to comfortably push without it, but this was after multiple 40 wipe nights.

Phasing at the right time has a large effect on progression. It was the same for phasing early on stormwall boats and trying to skip a set of bombs on Mekka.

If you think that you never pot on pull on prog, that there are no situations for it, you're not in an actual mythic guild, let alone a good mythic guild.

[Mightytasty]

Realistically it’s only potions and runes, rest is covered. As a flipside, every tier end I get a refund from a guild based on boosting we do or various guild challenges. For example I got 400k on launch due to scoring high on several guild contests that rewarded your level of preparedness for raid.

End of Uldir I and everyone else got 150k shared due to boost revenues, rest goes to free flasks, food, vantus and repairs.

Said top 100 guilds operate same way, simply because of boosting revenues covering everything.

Not every guild boosts though, right? Especially casual mythic guilds.

[Gaidax]

Please direct me to the god I need to pray to in order to receive this not hard to get triple proc.

Thank you.

Didn't you know? Apparently you are 415 average ilvl from WQs nowadays, dem titanforges raining man.

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Not every guild boosts though, right? Especially casual mythic guilds.

That's like your problem. Any sort of half decent mythic guild does that to allow free services and support for members. Even my guild does it and we're like average mythic guild.

It is absolutely not an issue to take a couple of deadweights to heroic run or even mythic and they pay well.